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Old 10-28-2008, 09:37 AM   #2941
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This is why VTA is fun. Look at the fast laps!!

Midwest Carpet Onroad Championships

USVTA Trans Am (A Main)
Driver Name....Pos Car# Laps Race Time Fast Lap Top 5 Top 10 Top 20
Crosson, Jeff........1 1 34 8:05.553 13.825 13.930 13.996 14.065
Zitzlsperger, Mark...2 3 34 8:10.790 13.845 13.952 14.010 14.091
Driver, Curtiss......3 4 34 8:12.358 14.009 14.068 14.121 14.225
Dailey, Paul.........4 5 33 8:13.326 13.882 13.916 13.979 14.112
Javorsky, Steve......5 10 32 8:07.443 14.520 14.554 14.582 14.657
Foster, Bob..........6 8 32 8:07.757 14.093 14.192 14.293 14.477
Kremke, Kerry........7 9 32 8:11.697 14.154 14.277 14.353 14.491
Zaier, Joe...........8 6 31 8:00.479 14.099 14.165 14.233 14.547
McKinney, Ken........9 7 30 8:00.894 13.883 14.008 14.111 14.238
Ski, Tim............10 2 13 3:17.162 13.844 13.990 14.288


I'm not sure what Bob F. ran with for power but everyone else ran 21.5 with the exception of Joe Z. with a 17.5. This doesn't show the speed difference but the 17.5 was getting ate up on the straights. The 21.5's were geared kinda all over the place from 4.2 - 4.7 I think. So its not necessarily the gearing or the straight speed that determines fast lap as we all know. So really I just thought I'd share how close the cars were, which makes it really cool!
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:51 AM   #2942
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Originally Posted by snoopyrc View Post
Is it just me or is it rare to see someone go from 1/8gas to VTA. It might just be a thing in GA.
Not here in the Chicago area. Within about an hour drive you can race just about any class you can think of from 1/18th to 1/8th.

That particular racer who posted that comment is one of our area's better racers, and he races all kinds of classes year around, and travels to races in other states too.
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:59 AM   #2943
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Originally Posted by padailey View Post
This is why VTA is fun. Look at the fast laps!!

Midwest Carpet Onroad Championships

USVTA Trans Am (A Main)
Driver Name....Pos Car# Laps Race Time Fast Lap Top 5 Top 10 Top 20
Crosson, Jeff........1 1 34 8:05.553 13.825 13.930 13.996 14.065
Zitzlsperger, Mark...2 3 34 8:10.790 13.845 13.952 14.010 14.091
Driver, Curtiss......3 4 34 8:12.358 14.009 14.068 14.121 14.225
Dailey, Paul.........4 5 33 8:13.326 13.882 13.916 13.979 14.112
Javorsky, Steve......5 10 32 8:07.443 14.520 14.554 14.582 14.657
Foster, Bob..........6 8 32 8:07.757 14.093 14.192 14.293 14.477
Kremke, Kerry........7 9 32 8:11.697 14.154 14.277 14.353 14.491
Zaier, Joe...........8 6 31 8:00.479 14.099 14.165 14.233 14.547
McKinney, Ken........9 7 30 8:00.894 13.883 14.008 14.111 14.238
Ski, Tim............10 2 13 3:17.162 13.844 13.990 14.288


I'm not sure what Bob F. ran with for power but everyone else ran 21.5 with the exception of Joe Z. with a 17.5. This doesn't show the speed difference but the 17.5 was getting ate up on the straights. The 21.5's were geared kinda all over the place from 4.2 - 4.7 I think. So its not necessarily the gearing or the straight speed that determines fast lap as we all know. So really I just thought I'd share how close the cars were, which makes it really cool!
Just to add not sure what all the chassis' were but I do know these.... (2) Type R's, FK05, FK04, TC5, TC3, MI2, XXX-S. Also it was pretty cool because there were 3 Mustangs, 3 Cuda's, and 4 Camaro's. Always fun when all the manufacturers are equally represented!!!
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Old 10-28-2008, 10:01 AM   #2944
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A few very random notes...
  • There is no single "best handling" body for Trans Am. Pick one you like and run it and stop worrying about tenths and hundreths of seconds in body choices. Worry more about your paint job and how cool your car looks.
  • I'm working on trying to find a solution to the 21.5 motor availability problems. Hang tight and don't panic. I'll do whatever needs to be done to make it so that people can find motors for this class. If that means opening it up to other 21.5 motors earlier than wanted, then so be it. Again, hang tight...
  • I'm leaning toward leaving the current 21.5 FDR where it is and letting natural selection take place. I don't want to force anyone to change, but the writing has been on the wall for a while. If you can't keep up with a brushed stock motor, well, this class isn't the only place you'll have that problem.
  • You can easily run a 17.5 in a TC3 with a small spur gear and only minor Dremel work in the pinion area on the chassis. I've done it.
  • One battery, one motor is probably not a practical option for USVTA unless we provide the motor and the battery for everyone to buy with a USVTA sticker on them. Hmmm...
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Old 10-28-2008, 10:13 AM   #2945
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If anyone is interested...

TransAm Exterior number decals.

9" x 11" sheet, $7 - shipping included. (approx. $5 + shipping)

Goto the bottom of the page : http://www.rctech.net/forum/r-c-item...ml#post4966774

If there is a different font your looking for, let me know. I can also do custom numbers sets if anyone is interested. Shoot me a PM.

Coming soon : 70's sponsor decals.
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Old 10-28-2008, 10:14 AM   #2946
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I have to agree....1 motor and 1 battery rule should not be enforce @ USVTA rule. Right now, using NOVAK 21.5 with any 2 cell LIPO are probably the fastest combo with 4.2 FDR limit. At least, that told everyone, if you want your VTA car the fastest, the above combination is what you should CHOOSE.

Remember 1 thing, USVTA is trying to give everyone some CHEAP and close to equal fun racing environment. If you go look around, I would guess, more then 1/2 of these VTA are 3 years and older chassis that worth no more then $100 on the market. I myself used a 4 years old Schumacher Mi2EC...I have seen Losi XXXS, AE TC3, even HPI Pro 2....Now, if using old Nimh and brushed motor are illegal...that totally beat the idea for the VTA class. If the driver wants to be the fastest, they will buy the lipo and 21.5 in a heart beat. But a lot of the ppl just want to use their old cells and 27T stock motor, and just want to race @ some lower main. I am sure these ppl know, their equipment are not capable to race with the 21.5 and lipo....that is THEIR CHOICE. But if it is a 1 motor 1 lipo rule...they have to buy 21.5 and lipo, they have no choice. Or they will quit.

I think everyone already know...even with the 21.5 lipo, you can still beat by 4 cells 27T VTA.......it is all about driving and setup.

Also, please no lipo and 17.5...there are classes like that on TC already.
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Old 10-28-2008, 10:28 AM   #2947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solara View Post
I think everyone already know...even with the 21.5 lipo, you can still beat by 4 cells 27T VTA.......it is all about driving and setup.
the other "secret" about a brushed stock motor is to buy a brand new one and gear it to go as fast as it can without lugging, use brand new matched 4600NiMh, and charge them at 6-7amps or higher. That's the fastest of the combo's. The downside is if you have other racers who are good, meaning they never get marshalled and can run all consistent laps, is that you'll need to burn up the motor in one race day to win. Essentially be a great driver throw alot of money into your race day and throw out the motor on your way out of the track.
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Old 10-28-2008, 10:33 AM   #2948
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Originally Posted by ApexSpeed View Post
There is no single "best handling" body for Trans Am. Pick one you like and run it and stop worrying about tenths and hundreths of seconds in body choices. Worry more about your paint job and how cool your car looks.
Amen
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Old 10-28-2008, 10:58 AM   #2949
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Originally Posted by ApexSpeed View Post
  • I'm working on trying to find a solution to the 21.5 motor availability problems. Hang tight and don't panic. I'll do whatever needs to be done to make it so that people can find motors for this class. If that means opening it up to other 21.5 motors earlier than wanted, then so be it. Again, hang tight...
The combination of gearing limitations and an open choice of motors will lead to "motor of the month" problems and resulting unhappiness. One of my local tracks put gearing limits on 13.5 motors, so motors that make their power at lower RPMs became uncompetitive instantly.

I notice that Stormer has Novak 21.5's in stock today.
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Old 10-28-2008, 11:35 AM   #2950
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Originally Posted by chicagokenji View Post
There isn't one. The cars do 24-26MPH so it doesn't make a difference.
Thanks. I know in the Vintage class in the HPI Challenge there were definately bodies that didn't handle well but that was 17.5 / lipo rather then 21.5.
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Old 10-28-2008, 11:43 AM   #2951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padailey View Post
This is why VTA is fun. Look at the fast laps!!

Midwest Carpet Onroad Championships

USVTA Trans Am (A Main)
Driver Name....Pos Car# Laps Race Time Fast Lap Top 5 Top 10 Top 20
Crosson, Jeff........1 1 34 8:05.553 13.825 13.930 13.996 14.065
Zitzlsperger, Mark...2 3 34 8:10.790 13.845 13.952 14.010 14.091
Driver, Curtiss......3 4 34 8:12.358 14.009 14.068 14.121 14.225
Dailey, Paul.........4 5 33 8:13.326 13.882 13.916 13.979 14.112
Javorsky, Steve......5 10 32 8:07.443 14.520 14.554 14.582 14.657
Foster, Bob..........6 8 32 8:07.757 14.093 14.192 14.293 14.477
Kremke, Kerry........7 9 32 8:11.697 14.154 14.277 14.353 14.491
Zaier, Joe...........8 6 31 8:00.479 14.099 14.165 14.233 14.547
McKinney, Ken........9 7 30 8:00.894 13.883 14.008 14.111 14.238
Ski, Tim............10 2 13 3:17.162 13.844 13.990 14.288


I'm not sure what Bob F. ran with for power but everyone else ran 21.5 with the exception of Joe Z. with a 17.5. This doesn't show the speed difference but the 17.5 was getting ate up on the straights. The 21.5's were geared kinda all over the place from 4.2 - 4.7 I think. So its not necessarily the gearing or the straight speed that determines fast lap as we all know. So really I just thought I'd share how close the cars were, which makes it really cool!

"17.5 was getting ate up on the straights"

exactly.. this should not be.. Slow the 21.5 down so the 17.5 4 cell can be competetive.. diff on fast lap about .3.

you can look at these drivers racing each other in other classes and see that you have a large seesaw effect as the power ratio are not comparable.

We have locked out the 21.5 lipo combo locally until we can see or create a fair playing field. weather that be fdr or some other sort of equlizing parameter.

Maybe take 21.5 out and go 17.5 single cell lipo.. hmmmmmmm then single cell 27turn would still be competetive......... hmmmm maybe horribly slow though losing that 1.3 volts.
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Old 10-28-2008, 11:56 AM   #2952
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If you need to open the Lipo power choice up to other brands of 21.5's, and since there are no Roar approved 21.5's, I would suggest going with the brands that have ROAR approvals on their lower winds. Like LRP, Hacker, and I think Trinity all have 13.5' and 10.5 ROAR approved cans.

But thats for later. I dont know that anything should be done at all.
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Old 10-28-2008, 12:24 PM   #2953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ammdrew View Post
"t/a
21.5 lipo tq & win
Mike Haynes #1 37 8:02.386 12.657

4 cell 17.5 finished 2nd
Mike Collins #2 37 8:12.338 13.043

finished 3rd 21.5 lipo
Chris Goetz #6 36 8:01.787 12.822"

ok I do not see how this is close. The comment that the 2nd driver was very close at the end is accurate but if you look at the fast lap you have a .4 spread.. that is huge. The drivers ability to put the laps back to back is what will get you the win so you have some driver error on the winner.. 37 laps at .4 faster = 14.8 seconds providing both drivers are driving at top form.

you also have a .2 spread from second to 3rd were thid had the advantage but did not capitlize on it. a 7.4 second advantage that was given up on the corner dots or inconsistent driving.

when the power plants are equal and the driving skills are all similar you will see .01 .04 in fastest lap diffs. Much more like this

Driver's Name Total Laps Total Time Fastest Lap On Lap Avg. Lap Time Status
1 1 Aaron Bahner 51 00:08:05.612 00:08.793 39 09.521 Done!
2 3 Jeff Brustad 49 00:08:00.569 00:08.835 28 09.807 Done!
3 5 Sandy Schwartz 49 00:08:06.795 00:08.791 49 09.934 Done!
4 4 Joe Zair Jr 47 00:08:00.959 00:08.824 20 10.233 Done!
5 2 Joe Zaier 47 00:08:06.603 00:08.843 31 10.353 Do

fastest laps 8.793 8.835 8.791 8.824 8.843

The end result winner put two laps on the field by being consistent but not by being faster.
You can't compare mike haynes car to mike collins, collins ran an old tc3, and haynes had a new losi, with the same setup as his tq and class winning rubber tire car. In the rubber class mike haynes was 1st and collins was 9th, big difference in fast lap ability. But for Mike collins to be that close, says something good for the closeness in the power plants.

either way if you want to slow down the 21.5 that is fine, but lets start to encourage a move to lipo for everyone, then this won't be an issue, the cars where pretty fast, very controllable for me, but it might be a handful for a beginner.

Also Tri-state raceway has 21.5 novaks available 513-889-3954 they will be open wednesday. Also try lefthander r/c or any of the bigger oval supply sites. they are out there, I think the oval guys are prolly snatching them all up. 21.5 lipo is going to be the big oval class this year.

OK, so who is making it to cincy to run t/a sunday, great track.
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Old 10-28-2008, 12:27 PM   #2954
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Originally Posted by snoopyrc View Post
If you need to open the Lipo power choice up to other brands of 21.5's, and since there are no Roar approved 21.5's, I would suggest going with the brands that have ROAR approvals on their lower winds. Like LRP, Hacker, and I think Trinity all have 13.5' and 10.5 ROAR approved cans.

But thats for later. I dont know that anything should be done at all.
Don't forget my favorite, Tekin. They have ROAR-approved motors and now offer a 21.5 as well.

I agree it's for later though. Maybe each "hard core" USVTA racer on here could commit to put one Novak 21.5 NIB on the shelf to offer for break-even resale in those lean times.
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Old 10-28-2008, 12:56 PM   #2955
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the point is on a wide open track like the gate was the 21.5 has a higher top speed on a tight track you can't make up 1/2 a second on the track with the 21.5

it's the same as swtour said on the oval a 21.5 lipo will beat a 13.5 4cell easy. on a wide open track the fdr needs to be lower on a tight track the 21.5 can't wind out. yet I'm not taking anything from Haynes he is a great driver but he was able to use the power plant to more of an advantage then the usual TA driver.

did you guys watch main. www.rc50.com watch at the 2 minute mark. poor Mike and his green cuda. I think that haynes backed off when he got to the back of 2nd place collins to not make it a killing of the class. but I think he could of put 3 laps on the field in 8 minutes if he wanted to.
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