If you're running primes then it would be safe o say you're running on high bite clay. Moving the rear arms to the front and even using a laydown transmission will move weight forward, increasing the amount of steering you have. As pushing is a common 2wd car problem, those two things will help keep the front end down. If you've been consistent, then you would benefit from trying different set ups. Maybe one of the local fast guys can help you out with what is working at your track. It's a good way to make new friends and learn something.

change to laydown, move shocks forward, gullwing arms/shock tower in front.
It will help you a lot....also run the nylon pinions too.

Already running lay-down, that was in the original post. :rolleyes:

The car handles really well as she sits, and honestly, have plenty of steering when the track is tacky. If it dries out a little, lose a little bit of steering, but still very good. I have noticed only people struggle with steering especially when it dries out some. They keep the track pretty tacky though.

And instead of doing those changes I may just buy a B6 and a ball diff for it and try it out, that way I can compare back-to-back.

Thanks for the suggestions. Btw, I'm pretty sure a nylon pinion isn't going to be the reason I win or lose. :ha:

Well if the car works for you then don't change it. We are all just trying to help. Secondly, from the pictures you posted, it sure looks like you are running a 3 gear stand up and not a laydown. With a laydown the spur gear would fit under the Associated body. I have never seen a gear cover that tall for a lay down but hey I have been wrong before. ;)

It was originally the stand-up tranny. I ran it 1 race day and everyone at the track suggested I go to the lay-down, which I already had gotten when I got the car, so I switched it.

And I know everyone is just making suggestions and trying to help - and that is why I posted on here. I truly do appreciate it [didn't mean to make it sound as if I didn't - so, sorry 'bout that] as I'm just getting back in the "game" after a pretty lengthy layoff. :nod:

Really do appreciate all the suggestions and tips so far, and I just thought it was kinda funny about the nylon pinion... after admitting that my driving errors are keeping me from doing better than I have been. :lol::lol:

Anyway, back on the suggestions several people have made...

It honestly seems as though, on indoor clay (with really good bite mind you), that the B6 (technically a "carpet" version buggy) car; gull wing arms, laydown tranny, shocks in front of rear arms, etc... would be the car to have?? I tried to research it before I dropped about $500 on the B6D setup that it was the one to have, and now all the suggestions I'm getting are basically to get a B6 and switch out the gear diff to ball diff. :lol::ha::lol::ha:

Again, I apologize guys if I sounded unappreciative, as that wasn't intended, to all the feedback you guys have given over the last few posts. I may seriously just build up a "carpet" car to compare them though.

Thanks again for the help and insight - and I may just order a few of those nylon pinions. :tire:

That's pretty much what everyone runs on medium-High Grip. Carpet car with a Ball Diff, and a Brass c mount

Others can chime in, but I think the gullwing setup might be a take it/leave it option. It's supposed to smooth out the steering (if you need that) but I have not been able to find any kind of summary defining how the leverage rates change. Essentially, moving the lower shock mount below the plane of the hingepins is similar to laying down the shocks more, but the matching shock tower stands them back up. It'd be nice if Associated applied a "rate" to this scale for reference.

I believe Neil Cragg ran flat arms at EOS this past weekend on high-grip carpet.

The wheel rate doesn't change. Pairing the shock tower with the right arms gives the same damping and spring rates at the wheel. What causes the change in handling is the the CG change with the shocks being lower/further out and the gull wing arms are technically more flexible since they are longer (not hinge pin to hinge pin, just because they aren't straight).

It's a small change for sure. I stick to the flat arms purely because I like not having dedicated left/right arms for spares.

Do you know that for a fact? Seems like the mold and carrying costs wouldn't justify such a small change.

Yes, I know that for a fact. I've measured them and it was also stated by an AE rep somewhere on rctech or facebook when the B5m and B5 were released with the gull wing and straight arm difference. The B6 geometry is the same.

I think they justified the cost by assuming many people would buy both sets of arms and towers to test it.

A quick test would be to measure the angle formed between the inner hinge pin, lower shock mounting location, and upper shock mount.

If you set the right height the same, the angle will be identical between them.

https://i.imgur.com/9dULE1r.jpg

There is a lot more to the setup neil used at EOS than just flat arms, you have to look at the package as a whole.

Well, I know nothing about what you guys are talking about - but I will say...

The kit was built with 30wt shock oil per kit, and the shock pistons per kit (1.6 fr/1.7 rr) but I recently rebuilt the shocks and just to change it up a little I went heavier as we do have a couple of larger jumps, and a rhythm section (where I thought this would hurt me). I put 37.5 in the front and rear and the car was great... I kept the 2.0mm pre-load on the rear and went to 3.5mm pre-load on the front and everything was better. Car jumped better, more turn-in, and handled the rhythm section even better. Don't know why, but it may be that it just suited my driving/jumping style better. Next time, I may rebuild the shocks with different weights, ie., 32.5 front and 37.5 rear and see what happens.

Part of the fun of this hobby. :tire:

Great, thanks. FWIW, I was inclined to believe you anyway, as you're generally one of the better informed posters around here. Thanks for the clarification.

aracefan, WOW that's some heavy rear oil. I've run 27.5 & 30 in the rear with good results. Current setup is standup 3-gear, battery forward.

JSK, I understand that, wasn't meant to be more than an anecdote demonstrating that the choice isn't simply a 1=1 proposition.

I thought it was kind of heavy... "back in the day" when I used to run Stadium Trucks (*cough* original RC10T *cough*) I always ran lighter oil in the rear, but figured, eh, I'll try this... I have some 27.5 and may throw that in the rear before this Saturday and see what happens. Can always change it out again. :D

Thanks for all the great info guys. Have given me plenty to think about and to experiment with - along with getting more consistent at driving. :lol: