66LikesHot Bodies D413 1/10 4WD Buggy
04-29-2014, 04:07 AM
#2086
There seems to be something wrong with the kit wheels... Awww, its just the color! 
Can anyone confirm that there are two choices of front wheel hex included in the kit? I'd like to stick to the Avid Satellite wheels if/when I get a D413, but there is no 12mm 4WD front wheel option available from Avid. How isthe offset of AE/Kyosho 2WD front wheels compared to the TLR stuff Ty seems to be using? From what I can see on my wheels, there seems to be more offset on the AE/Kyosho rims.
Can anyone confirm that there are two choices of front wheel hex included in the kit? I'd like to stick to the Avid Satellite wheels if/when I get a D413, but there is no 12mm 4WD front wheel option available from Avid. How isthe offset of AE/Kyosho 2WD front wheels compared to the TLR stuff Ty seems to be using? From what I can see on my wheels, there seems to be more offset on the AE/Kyosho rims.
04-29-2014, 08:18 AM
#2087
There seems to be something wrong with the kit wheels... Awww, its just the color!
Can anyone confirm that there are two choices of front wheel hex included in the kit? I'd like to stick to the Avid Satellite wheels if/when I get a D413, but there is no 12mm 4WD front wheel option available from Avid. How isthe offset of AE/Kyosho 2WD front wheels compared to the TLR stuff Ty seems to be using? From what I can see on my wheels, there seems to be more offset on the AE/Kyosho rims.
Can anyone confirm that there are two choices of front wheel hex included in the kit? I'd like to stick to the Avid Satellite wheels if/when I get a D413, but there is no 12mm 4WD front wheel option available from Avid. How isthe offset of AE/Kyosho 2WD front wheels compared to the TLR stuff Ty seems to be using? From what I can see on my wheels, there seems to be more offset on the AE/Kyosho rims.
"In the front, obviously D413 rims work, Losi 22 and 22-4 have the proper offset (22 rims are only 2mm narrower), and Associated and Kyosho 4WD fronts will work, but end up in a slightly narrower width. Ty won the nationals with Associated offset rims, and has run 22 fronts since then."
04-29-2014, 08:32 AM
#2088
There seems to be something wrong with the kit wheels... Awww, its just the color!
Can anyone confirm that there are two choices of front wheel hex included in the kit? I'd like to stick to the Avid Satellite wheels if/when I get a D413, but there is no 12mm 4WD front wheel option available from Avid. How isthe offset of AE/Kyosho 2WD front wheels compared to the TLR stuff Ty seems to be using? From what I can see on my wheels, there seems to be more offset on the AE/Kyosho rims.
Can anyone confirm that there are two choices of front wheel hex included in the kit? I'd like to stick to the Avid Satellite wheels if/when I get a D413, but there is no 12mm 4WD front wheel option available from Avid. How isthe offset of AE/Kyosho 2WD front wheels compared to the TLR stuff Ty seems to be using? From what I can see on my wheels, there seems to be more offset on the AE/Kyosho rims.
04-29-2014, 09:22 AM
#2089
Tech Rookie
Just went and checked it out, and I appreciate his testing. The difference between his Genuine Deans (0.11 mOhm) and caged bullet (0.39 mOhm) is 0.00028 Ohms. On a 30 amp pull, this will result in a 0.0084 VDC difference between the 2 connections. Or less than 0.1% of the battery voltage. I understand looking for every 10th on the track, but I don't think that difference is going to be felt. Even if you are talking unloaded RPM (rating you stated for your motor was 4000kV) you are talking 33RPM. Once loaded, this difference is even smaller.
This is assuming that they have similar resistance in all the solder joints. I find bullets much easy to solder to. Deans can melt slightly and lose contact area as the angle of the metal in the plastic changes, and getting a nice (non cold solder joint) is much easier with a bullet. Using larger gauge wire is also much easier with a bullet.
The average brushless RC car is going to have over a foot of wire in it. In Danny's post he points out that 1 foot of 12AWG has 1.46 mOhm's of resistance, and 10AWG only has 0.76 mOhm. With this information, you would be much better off increasing your wire size by a couple of gauges, rather than trying to save a couple 10th's or 20th's of a milliohms in the connector.
I take a little issue with his test rig too. One side of his test leads is 4mm bullets of unknown origin and resistance. Then the clamp has a flat mouth, favoring any flat connector. When clamped to a round connector like a bullet, there is going to be vastly reduced contact patch between the clip and connector. Finally, when you are dealing with fractions of a milliohm, a thin layer of oil from your skin can make a difference. Were these connectors cleaned before testing? How old/how much oxidation has happened to metal?
This is assuming that they have similar resistance in all the solder joints. I find bullets much easy to solder to. Deans can melt slightly and lose contact area as the angle of the metal in the plastic changes, and getting a nice (non cold solder joint) is much easier with a bullet. Using larger gauge wire is also much easier with a bullet.
The average brushless RC car is going to have over a foot of wire in it. In Danny's post he points out that 1 foot of 12AWG has 1.46 mOhm's of resistance, and 10AWG only has 0.76 mOhm. With this information, you would be much better off increasing your wire size by a couple of gauges, rather than trying to save a couple 10th's or 20th's of a milliohms in the connector.
I take a little issue with his test rig too. One side of his test leads is 4mm bullets of unknown origin and resistance. Then the clamp has a flat mouth, favoring any flat connector. When clamped to a round connector like a bullet, there is going to be vastly reduced contact patch between the clip and connector. Finally, when you are dealing with fractions of a milliohm, a thin layer of oil from your skin can make a difference. Were these connectors cleaned before testing? How old/how much oxidation has happened to metal?
Regarding the testing method the tester used is an Instek GOM-801H milliohm meter. This meter applies an amp draw through the connector or wire tested and measures the voltage drop to calculate the resistance. It uses a 4 wire setup so the current passes through one wire and the other wire is used as a voltage sensor. This is referred to as a Kelvin connection and is the accurate way to measure voltage when current is applied. As long as the clamps both parts of the clamps touch the connector the results will be accurate. It has nothing to do with being clamped on a round or square surface.
04-29-2014, 09:35 AM
#2090
Thank you for your input! I did not find any information on using AE/Kyosho 2WD fronts in the FAQ, that's why I asked, but with the two included hex types it does not really matter. 
04-29-2014, 10:06 AM
#2091
Tech Adept
04-29-2014, 11:11 AM
#2092
The cage style 4mm connector provides a very unreliable connection. It's noted on the test that depending on how the cage connector was twisted around while connected to the female connector that it would fluctuate from 5.74 , 3.54 and 1.28mOhms being the lowest reading achieved.
Regarding the testing method the tester used is an Instek GOM-801H milliohm meter. This meter applies an amp draw through the connector or wire tested and measures the voltage drop to calculate the resistance. It uses a 4 wire setup so the current passes through one wire and the other wire is used as a voltage sensor. This is referred to as a Kelvin connection and is the accurate way to measure voltage when current is applied. As long as the clamps both parts of the clamps touch the connector the results will be accurate. It has nothing to do with being clamped on a round or square surface.
Regarding the testing method the tester used is an Instek GOM-801H milliohm meter. This meter applies an amp draw through the connector or wire tested and measures the voltage drop to calculate the resistance. It uses a 4 wire setup so the current passes through one wire and the other wire is used as a voltage sensor. This is referred to as a Kelvin connection and is the accurate way to measure voltage when current is applied. As long as the clamps both parts of the clamps touch the connector the results will be accurate. It has nothing to do with being clamped on a round or square surface.
Again, I like to say do what makes you happy. I like bullets because
- I think that they are are several orders of magnitude easier to solder and solder well
- You aren't going to introduce variances by heating the plastic holder
- No balance leads flopping around, getting broke, adding extra weight
- You don't need to worry about different battery packs having different wire lengths (all bullets are in the same position on batteries) so it is easier to minimize wire length
- They are easier to maintain and inspect to insure proper operation
This discussion is kind of off topic for this thread. Let's get back to the D413!! Who else has theirs built??
04-29-2014, 11:22 AM
#2094
Tech Addict
04-29-2014, 03:46 PM
#2097
Tech Apprentice
Just got UPS tracking from superior hobbies. Kit is on it's way!
04-29-2014, 06:45 PM
#2099
Another front rim/hex question
Ok, with regards to the AE & Kyo 4wd front rims working, how much narrower will the car be, and is there a wider hex available that will limit this norrowing of the front end? I'm considering this kit, but have quite a few Kyo rims that i'd like to utilise without hampering performance.
04-29-2014, 07:09 PM
#2100
Ok, with regards to the AE & Kyo 4wd front rims working, how much narrower will the car be, and is there a wider hex available that will limit this norrowing of the front end? I'm considering this kit, but have quite a few Kyo rims that i'd like to utilise without hampering performance.