248LikesXray XB4 thread
10-07-2014, 02:54 PM
#5672
To all that info in bold… In Paintball a fellow by the name of Bob Long is the only American Manufacturer who engineers, designs, manufactures, assembles, and services all is products 1,000,000% in the U.S.A. and his Markers don't cost more than anyone else's just because of the fact NOTHING is outsourced. To boot, the precision of his Markers is such that he is able to do radical things no one else in the entire industry has the testicular fortitude to even debate in their heads, let alone attempt, and still, his products are competitively priced. On top of that they do in fact offer better performance that has been documented in hard numbers. And oh yeah, Bob Long also happens to be the Bill Russell of Paintball (he used to be the MJ until a fellow by the name of Oliver Lange came along - LOL)
Bottom Line, whether manufactured 100% in the U.S.A., Slovakia, Canada, Germany, or wherever, it doesn't automatically mean it should cost more. How you take issue with that is beyond me.
Bottom Line, whether manufactured 100% in the U.S.A., Slovakia, Canada, Germany, or wherever, it doesn't automatically mean it should cost more. How you take issue with that is beyond me.
R & D cost money......always has and always will.
Production cost isn't the same everywhere in the world.......everyone knowes this.
I'm done.
Back to discussing the XB4
Under 2 weeks until we are at the factory test driving the new evolution of the XB4
Bent
10-07-2014, 03:08 PM
#5673
Wow, real mature there bent. 
There was no bait of any kind. Just cold hard facts that any adult with the capacity for rational thought would understand.
Please fill us all in on ALL this "R & D" you continue to say X-ray put into the XB4. I'm dying to hear it.
It's clear to me at this point you're just a blind fanboy that's only willing to see his own viewpoint. I was like that once upon a time too, but then I turned 11.
And in case you missed it I praised the car but not the price. Simple as that.
There was no bait of any kind. Just cold hard facts that any adult with the capacity for rational thought would understand.
Please fill us all in on ALL this "R & D" you continue to say X-ray put into the XB4. I'm dying to hear it.
It's clear to me at this point you're just a blind fanboy that's only willing to see his own viewpoint. I was like that once upon a time too, but then I turned 11.
And in case you missed it I praised the car but not the price. Simple as that.
10-07-2014, 03:11 PM
#5674
You're not far from the truth 
But on a serious note.
It's time to sign off RcTech and focus on the racing instead.
The EuroOffroadSeries are just around the corner and we've just applied for the 2015 1/10 and 1/8 EUROS as well as the 2015 1/10 Worlds in Japan
Bent
But on a serious note.
It's time to sign off RcTech and focus on the racing instead.
The EuroOffroadSeries are just around the corner and we've just applied for the 2015 1/10 and 1/8 EUROS as well as the 2015 1/10 Worlds in Japan
Bent
10-07-2014, 03:20 PM
#5675
To all that info in bold… In Paintball a fellow by the name of Bob Long is the only American Manufacturer who engineers, designs, manufactures, assembles, and services all is products 1,000,000% in the U.S.A. and his Markers don't cost more than anyone else's just because of the fact NOTHING is outsourced. To boot, the precision of his Markers is such that he is able to do radical things no one else in the entire industry has the testicular fortitude to even debate in their heads, let alone attempt, and still, his products are competitively priced. On top of that they do in fact offer better performance that has been documented in hard numbers. And oh yeah, Bob Long also happens to be the Bill Russell of Paintball (he used to be the MJ until a fellow by the name of Oliver Lange came along - LOL)
Bottom Line, whether manufactured 100% in the U.S.A., Slovakia, Canada, Germany, or wherever, it doesn't automatically mean it should cost more. How you take issue with that is beyond me.
Bottom Line, whether manufactured 100% in the U.S.A., Slovakia, Canada, Germany, or wherever, it doesn't automatically mean it should cost more. How you take issue with that is beyond me.
10-07-2014, 03:37 PM
#5676
Uh Solenoids were always Huphreys from day 1. Humphrey is a USA company.
The ONLY place outside of Eaton Precision Machining that made barrels for him was CP (Custom Products) which happens to also be in the USA. Arizona in fact.
Why do I know this? because I designed the Manuals for Bob's guns for 5 years and am one of the top techs in the world. My old home number is located on the inside back cover of every manual I designed for him.
Nice try though.
The only aspect in which you are correct is that he never had machines in house, but he did sort of partner with Ripper Machinist by investing in 2 of the best machines money can buy in order to have his markers made using state of the art machines. In fact, that very machinist is the one who brought Bob and myself together and he's also the guy who machined my POWER Series Triggers.
IDK where you got your info from but you are sadly mistaken.
Here's a post dating back to 2007 of a Board manual I designed for his (then) New Marker.
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=1948469
The ONLY place outside of Eaton Precision Machining that made barrels for him was CP (Custom Products) which happens to also be in the USA. Arizona in fact.
Why do I know this? because I designed the Manuals for Bob's guns for 5 years and am one of the top techs in the world. My old home number is located on the inside back cover of every manual I designed for him.
Nice try though.
The only aspect in which you are correct is that he never had machines in house, but he did sort of partner with Ripper Machinist by investing in 2 of the best machines money can buy in order to have his markers made using state of the art machines. In fact, that very machinist is the one who brought Bob and myself together and he's also the guy who machined my POWER Series Triggers.
IDK where you got your info from but you are sadly mistaken.
Here's a post dating back to 2007 of a Board manual I designed for his (then) New Marker.
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=1948469
10-07-2014, 03:45 PM
#5677
Uh Solenoids were always Huphreys from day 1. Humphrey is a USA company.
The ONLY place outside of Eaton Precision Machining that made barrels for him was CP (Custom Products) which happens to also be in the USA. Arizona in fact.
Why do I know this? because I designed the Manuals for Bob's guns for 5 years and am one of the top techs in the world. My old home number is located on the inside back cover of every manual I designed for him.
Nice try though.
The only aspect in which you are correct is that he never had machines in house, but he did sort of partner with Ripper Machinist by investing in 2 of the best machines money can buy in order to have his markers made using state of the art machines. In fact, that very machinist is the one who brought Bob and myself together and he's also the guy who machined my POWER Series Triggers.
IDK where you got your info from but you are sadly mistaken.
Here's a post dating back to 2007 of a Board manual I designed for his (then) New Marker.
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=1948469
The ONLY place outside of Eaton Precision Machining that made barrels for him was CP (Custom Products) which happens to also be in the USA. Arizona in fact.
Why do I know this? because I designed the Manuals for Bob's guns for 5 years and am one of the top techs in the world. My old home number is located on the inside back cover of every manual I designed for him.
Nice try though.
The only aspect in which you are correct is that he never had machines in house, but he did sort of partner with Ripper Machinist by investing in 2 of the best machines money can buy in order to have his markers made using state of the art machines. In fact, that very machinist is the one who brought Bob and myself together and he's also the guy who machined my POWER Series Triggers.
IDK where you got your info from but you are sadly mistaken.
Here's a post dating back to 2007 of a Board manual I designed for his (then) New Marker.
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=1948469
Humphrey is the US Branch of Koganei (Japanese)
How do I know this? Because I have been in the paintball world for over 20 years and my old roomate is Bob's designer who also used to work for CP who also worked for Dan Bonebrake designing BB markers which I helped assemble and tech.
Oh oh... looks like someone knows more than the other person
are you done with this pissing match?
10-07-2014, 04:57 PM
#5678
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (23)
You didn't say "best price"
mmm!!! If his paintball gear is shipped to Slovakia will they still be competitively priced or then will Bob Long be willing to lose $$$'s just to keep his international customer's pockets happy. Please get back to us on that one.
Why are you so worried about the price. If you don't like the pricing, then don't buy it or race it.
Is the iPhone made in USA?......No. Why, because it is all about profit. Their R&D wasn't the best with the last few updates. Apple charges a premium price because "they" believe they have the best product. Just ask an android user. I just can't understand why you have a issues with Xray products. What Xray do on a day to day basis, does this effect your life and the way you live and enjoy it?
I believe Xray do an outstanding job and I'm happy to be racing and supporting their product. They aren't 100% perfect, but close enough for me.
mmm!!! If his paintball gear is shipped to Slovakia will they still be competitively priced or then will Bob Long be willing to lose $$$'s just to keep his international customer's pockets happy. Please get back to us on that one.
Why are you so worried about the price. If you don't like the pricing, then don't buy it or race it.
Is the iPhone made in USA?......No. Why, because it is all about profit. Their R&D wasn't the best with the last few updates. Apple charges a premium price because "they" believe they have the best product. Just ask an android user. I just can't understand why you have a issues with Xray products. What Xray do on a day to day basis, does this effect your life and the way you live and enjoy it?
I believe Xray do an outstanding job and I'm happy to be racing and supporting their product. They aren't 100% perfect, but close enough for me.
Last edited by Boz; 10-07-2014 at 05:22 PM.
10-07-2014, 06:05 PM
#5679
Guess you must be talking about a different Humphrey.
http://www.humphrey-products.com/content/our-company
I've worked with them first hand and have spoken to some of the people there and to my knowledge they are a 100% USA operation. Now, if they were bought out by someone else, that's a different story. Even still they are located in the US of A.
You claim to have been Jason's roommate yet you didn't know that CP is the only other manufacturer that machined Bob's barrels. Please. It's not a pissing contest just mentioning my credentials and how and why I know what I know. You all can continue to believe that some companies use special processes and techniques and utilizing "special" materials, different to what everyone else is doing and using if you like. I've done quite a bit of research and shopping around to know that what I am saying is factually correct.
Ironic that I say something a bout X-Ray/Hudy products being overpriced and get crucified for it, yet the mere mention of either one in most any forum (including this one) and the jokes about payin for them out the whazoo for them fly rampant. Coincidence?
http://www.humphrey-products.com/content/our-company
I've worked with them first hand and have spoken to some of the people there and to my knowledge they are a 100% USA operation. Now, if they were bought out by someone else, that's a different story. Even still they are located in the US of A.
You claim to have been Jason's roommate yet you didn't know that CP is the only other manufacturer that machined Bob's barrels. Please. It's not a pissing contest just mentioning my credentials and how and why I know what I know. You all can continue to believe that some companies use special processes and techniques and utilizing "special" materials, different to what everyone else is doing and using if you like. I've done quite a bit of research and shopping around to know that what I am saying is factually correct.
Ironic that I say something a bout X-Ray/Hudy products being overpriced and get crucified for it, yet the mere mention of either one in most any forum (including this one) and the jokes about payin for them out the whazoo for them fly rampant. Coincidence?
10-07-2014, 07:38 PM
#5680
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
Disappointed by the flaming that Bent is getting.
He's trying to help us all here with his experience of the XB4 and a wise man would take consideration of his words, not argue with him.
Out of my recent 4wd purchases (XB4, D413, ZX6) I've only run the XB4 so far. I did strip a pinion but I put it down to lack of experience on my part; slipper settings and brake settings on ESC are a vital part of setup, which I had wrong.
It's an awesome platform. In terms of build quality, I would put it between the ZX6 and D413 and that's reflective of the price I paid for it. Simple fact - if people weren't willing to pay the price for the XB4, it wouldn't be priced where it is.
I'll put my hand up and say I don't want metal pinions and crowns. I don't think there's a need for them and I hate the noise of metal on metal.
He's trying to help us all here with his experience of the XB4 and a wise man would take consideration of his words, not argue with him.
Out of my recent 4wd purchases (XB4, D413, ZX6) I've only run the XB4 so far. I did strip a pinion but I put it down to lack of experience on my part; slipper settings and brake settings on ESC are a vital part of setup, which I had wrong.
It's an awesome platform. In terms of build quality, I would put it between the ZX6 and D413 and that's reflective of the price I paid for it. Simple fact - if people weren't willing to pay the price for the XB4, it wouldn't be priced where it is.
I'll put my hand up and say I don't want metal pinions and crowns. I don't think there's a need for them and I hate the noise of metal on metal.
10-07-2014, 10:00 PM
#5681
Guess you must be talking about a different Humphrey.
http://www.humphrey-products.com/content/our-company
I've worked with them first hand and have spoken to some of the people there and to my knowledge they are a 100% USA operation. Now, if they were bought out by someone else, that's a different story. Even still they are located in the US of A.
You claim to have been Jason's roommate yet you didn't know that CP is the only other manufacturer that machined Bob's barrels. Please. It's not a pissing contest just mentioning my credentials and how and why I know what I know. You all can continue to believe that some companies use special processes and techniques and utilizing "special" materials, different to what everyone else is doing and using if you like. I've done quite a bit of research and shopping around to know that what I am saying is factually correct.
Ironic that I say something a bout X-Ray/Hudy products being overpriced and get crucified for it, yet the mere mention of either one in most any forum (including this one) and the jokes about payin for them out the whazoo for them fly rampant. Coincidence?
http://www.humphrey-products.com/content/our-company
I've worked with them first hand and have spoken to some of the people there and to my knowledge they are a 100% USA operation. Now, if they were bought out by someone else, that's a different story. Even still they are located in the US of A.
You claim to have been Jason's roommate yet you didn't know that CP is the only other manufacturer that machined Bob's barrels. Please. It's not a pissing contest just mentioning my credentials and how and why I know what I know. You all can continue to believe that some companies use special processes and techniques and utilizing "special" materials, different to what everyone else is doing and using if you like. I've done quite a bit of research and shopping around to know that what I am saying is factually correct.
Ironic that I say something a bout X-Ray/Hudy products being overpriced and get crucified for it, yet the mere mention of either one in most any forum (including this one) and the jokes about payin for them out the whazoo for them fly rampant. Coincidence?
Its okay if you are wrong.. we'll still accept you in the xray forum
10-08-2014, 06:13 AM
#5682
Regardless if parts or products are made in the US, Slovakia, or Asia, That is not what drives pricing of the products. All it does is dictate profit margin. Companies that have there products made in Asia have a much higher profit margin,period. The price is driven by the demand and what people are willing to pay. If a 4wd buggy is made 100% in Asia and 1 is made 100% in the US, if the profit margin was to stay equal on both products, The Asian car would sell for 1/3 the price. I know this as fact because I use to make 1/10th and 1/12th pan cars and I made everything in house. I outsourced nothing. Asian manufacturers contact me to this day offering to make my cars for less than I can buy the raw materials for. Plus it would be packaged and labeled and ready for me to ship. This is what I was up against and I figured, why try to compete with that and my profit margin isn't even close to what my competition is. It was a small part of my business and I saw no incentive to keep doing it. Greedy US companies capitalizing off of the cheap labor in Asia with no regulations and next to no overhead. I threw in the towel. Now I just concentrate on all of my contract work where I can actually make a damn good living without competing with the Chinese.
10-08-2014, 06:31 AM
#5683
Tech Master
iTrader: (77)
$300 give or take for a radio
$60 give or take for a receiver
$250 give or take for ESC/Motor
$75 give or take for a Servo
$75 give or take for a 2S Lipo
$100 give or take for a Lipo charger
$$$$$ for umpteen sets of tires
$350 for a kit
etc., etc., etc.,
This is not a cheap hobby, and after all the money we dump in to everything else we need to run . . . and we're complaining about the price of parts? Parts on this car which is extremely durable and are rarely needed . . . . really!? If the cost of parts is pricing you out of this hobby, or this car in particular, I think it's time to move on to knitting or something.
$60 give or take for a receiver
$250 give or take for ESC/Motor
$75 give or take for a Servo
$75 give or take for a 2S Lipo
$100 give or take for a Lipo charger
$$$$$ for umpteen sets of tires
$350 for a kit
etc., etc., etc.,
This is not a cheap hobby, and after all the money we dump in to everything else we need to run . . . and we're complaining about the price of parts? Parts on this car which is extremely durable and are rarely needed . . . . really!? If the cost of parts is pricing you out of this hobby, or this car in particular, I think it's time to move on to knitting or something.
10-08-2014, 06:53 AM
#5684
costs of labor
I'll intercede into the global discussion of product cost. Even if we assume that the entire kit is machine made (100% from all of the parts/machining/etc to the packaging, think of soft drink bottles,) you will still have significant cost differences depending on where the product is made. This is because you still need labor for management, machine maintenance, transport, and many other areas. There is also a difference in the cost of regulatory compliance based on where a product is made, and there are raw material price differences. Of course r/c cars cannot be 100% machine made, and that combined with all of the other factors is the reason no mass produced r/c vehicles are made in the usa, and why most are made in china. As a comparison, the average annual wage in the us is $42k, in slovakia it is $15k, and in china it is $5k. That is quite a difference.
Most of the physical items still made in the u.s. (not counting intellectual products such as software, books, etc) are either specialized high cost items (defense, high cost machinery - cars, airplanes, etc,) bulky items too expensive to ship (appliances, assembled furniture, food) high profit chemical products (drugs, etc.), small batch machined products (guns, etc,) and machine made low cost products too expensive to ship (consumables, household items, etc.) There are also many companies making things in the u.s that rely on the "made in america" label to sell their items. Companies outsource production to stay competitive or increase profit. If it didn't decrease the cost of production, they wouldn't do it, and saying something costs just as much to make in the usa as in china is silly.
In terms of part cost, xray parts are in line with parts from kyosho and tamiya. Associated parts are cheaper, but they also wear out much faster. Durango plastic parts are cheaper, but their metals parts are in line. I have been running the xb4 (which I bought used) for over a year, and have never broken anything. I did replace the drive pins twice, but that's it. The xb4 is only a little more expensive when you first buy it, after that it is cheap.
Most of the physical items still made in the u.s. (not counting intellectual products such as software, books, etc) are either specialized high cost items (defense, high cost machinery - cars, airplanes, etc,) bulky items too expensive to ship (appliances, assembled furniture, food) high profit chemical products (drugs, etc.), small batch machined products (guns, etc,) and machine made low cost products too expensive to ship (consumables, household items, etc.) There are also many companies making things in the u.s that rely on the "made in america" label to sell their items. Companies outsource production to stay competitive or increase profit. If it didn't decrease the cost of production, they wouldn't do it, and saying something costs just as much to make in the usa as in china is silly.
In terms of part cost, xray parts are in line with parts from kyosho and tamiya. Associated parts are cheaper, but they also wear out much faster. Durango plastic parts are cheaper, but their metals parts are in line. I have been running the xb4 (which I bought used) for over a year, and have never broken anything. I did replace the drive pins twice, but that's it. The xb4 is only a little more expensive when you first buy it, after that it is cheap.
Last edited by billjacobs; 10-08-2014 at 07:21 AM.
10-08-2014, 07:43 AM
#5685
Man! Can we get back to our 'toy' cars? Take it to pm, save us all from scrolling through these pages.