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This is a place to share knowledge related to 1/12th scale racing. It is not to be used for conversations.

KITS:
Click links to go to manufacturer product page. If any are missing please add them!

TIRES:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the US:
Pre-mounted tires readily available in the Europe:
  • Hot Race ??

Gluing your own donuts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm7z1rz-74s - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!
Truing tires:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqHOLWq6Uc - Special thanks to Edward Pickering!

The following information came from HERE, with some editing and information added. Thanks Christian!

THIS MAY NEED UPDATING FOR THE NEW BLACK CRC CARPET

Brands:
BSR, CRC, Jaco:
Pro One is no longer selling to the public, but it and the brands above are all mounted by BSR and use the same foam. The nomenclature of the BSR vs Jaco/CRC is a little different in a few instances but is otherwise the same. The BSR foam consists of three families, and can be identifed as synthetics, naturals, and blends.

Synthetics - The old school, light weight, easy to true "dry feeling" tires. These include tires like CRC/Jaco Yellow (BSR White), Black, Gray, etc. These tires offer the highest wear rate and lowest grip. Many racers continue to use these nder high bite conditions.

Naturals - These tires are usually the best alternative for low bite and asphalt. They include Pink, Magenta, Double Pink, Lilac (BSR Team Purple), Purple, and other tires. These tires provide a ton of grip, but tend to get sticky in high bite conditions. This rubber does not wear as easily, and the cars will pick up gunk and fibers from the carpet under most high bite conditions. This is especially bad if the humidity is high.

Blends - These are the tires most people run today. They were initially called "JFT foam" by some, as it was believed that the tires were the same as the JFT tires. We can divide the blends further into two groups: high rubber and low rubber content. The high rubber would be the new rear Orange and Red from the BSR family, and the low rubber would be the Green and Blue varieties. When, asked about the difference, John Foister from BSR Tires said they came from the same "family" of foam, but they offered different grip. According to John, the Green/Blue has more bite than Orange/Red, but from track testing Oranges offer more bite than Green (being equivalent to in hardness) when the grip is high and absolutely no grip when it is lower. The Orange foam has a denser pore structure and the tire is not as prone to chunking. It is also important to note is that BSR Blue rears are not the same as the BSR Blue fronts!

JFT:
JFT stands for Japan Foam Tire. They started the new wave of foam tires we are all using now (Blue/Blu, Green/Greene, Dbl Blue, etc). These tires are a little different than the BSR tire family, but work in very similar conditions. They offers four varieties A (asphalt), C (carpet), S (???), and R (???). This does not mean that those types only work on that surface, but this is what they recommend.

JFT uses the same foam for fronts and rears if the color is the same.

A: Used on asphalt, considered close to the natural rubber variety and are named consistently with other natural tires.
C: Used on carpet, considered a blend.
S: Used on carpet?, tires are ???
R: Used on carpet?, tires are ???

For setup, the JFT foam seem to generate more bite than the BSR, therefore the car tends to be a little more aggressive.

Ulti:
Ulti is another Japanese brand that offers an array of compounds. They have their own way of rating tires, and are difficult to equate to other brands. They have 4 different varieties, each in varying degrees of hardness.

J: High rubber content tire, similar to Pink/ Magenta. Soft would be close to a pink. These offer the most bite and are great for asphalt/carpet front tire. (J hard being very popular)
X: "Balanced" blend, similar to JFT Blue/ Green. Soft is equivalent to Green, medium to Blue in hardness. Great for carpet!
Y: High synthetic blend with lower grip, and is not a very popular variety.
Z: A very expensive "special" foam that is supposed to be magic on asphalt. Only make it in soft shore.
European tires:
There are many great European foam tire brands that use their own types of foam, as well as traditional foams. SOmeone with more knowledge about them will need to fill this in!

Tire Diameter:
If you are racing on carpet, you have to evaluate how much grip your track has. If your track is low to medium grip, you can run bigger tires. If you are on higher bite you have to cut them smaller, there is simply no way around it. Bigger tires are needed for asphalt, especially in the rear. The larger tires provide much needed lateral bite.

Carpet (mm):
Low - Medium Bite
Front: 42.0 - 42.5
Rear: 42.5 - 43.00
Medium - High Bite
Front: 40.5 - 41.0
Rear: 41.5 - 42.0
Big Race
Front: 39.5 - 40.0
Rear: 40.5 - 41.0
Asphalt (mm):
Parking Lot
Front: 43.0 - 44.0
Rear: 44.0 - 45.0
Prepped High Bite
Front: 42.0 - 43.0
Rear: 43.0 - 44.0

Tire Saucing:
Most facilities have moved towards odorless traction additives such as SXT. Some of additives evaporate very quickly and some do not. This seems to be something that is also dependent on tire compound and ambient temperature. For example, saucing a Green compound seems like it never dries, especially when tjhe temperature is lower. We have found that wiping the tires off 15 minutes before we go run allows the sauce to cure, which makes the car come in much quicker with Green rears. Blue compounds on the other hand, do fine when wiped off right before hitting the track.

Saucing half front and full rear is a good initial starting point. If the front of the car is too agressive you can sauce les than half, or for a shorter amount of time.
Tire Fuzzing:
In conditions of increasing grip, foam tires will somewtimes get sticky and pick up fuzz and debris from the track. This is highly dependent on the rubber sedan tire that is being run at your local track and the compound/ type of foam you are running on you car. The softer the sedan tire and the harder/higher rubber content in your foam tire, trouble with fuzzing seems more likely to occur.

There are ways to get around fuzzing under most conditions, and usually involves the selection of the correct foam compound. The more fuzz you get, the softer/lower rubber content you want to run.

Examples:
Problem: Car fuzzes with Lilac/Team Purple fronts and car starts pushing.
Solution: Use a softer front tire and or different family of foam. Replace it with Blue or Double Blue front.

Problem: Car loses rear bite 6 minutes into the run. Blue rear tires look almost clean but have small carpet hairs.
Solution: Use Green rear tires. The softer compound wears instead of getting sticky, minimizing fuzz.

Tire Selection:
Starting out, pick 2 tire compounds for the front and rear. The following should have you covered 99% of the time.

Front - Green and Blue (BSR) or Green and Light Blue (JFT)
Rear - Blue and Double Blue (BSR) or Blue and Dark Blue (JFT)

You may wonder about other compounds out there and if they might be better, trust me, they probably won't be. Even if there are other tires that can be as fast, the synthetic family wears out really fast and the high natural rubber will probably fuzz on you over an 8 minute run. The blends family seems to be the most versatile foam type available today. They last awhile, and sticking to them will make your process of tire selection simpler.
Tire Charts:
BSR/CRC/Jaco



Contact



Corally



JFT (Japan Foam Tire)



Ulti



Enneti (Xceed)



ELECTRONICS:
ESC:
As of now, ROAR is staying 1S (3.7V nominal; 4.2V fully charged) for 1/12. There are many 1S ESC's with a built in BEC so nothing else is required to power the receiver and servo.

If you don't want to lock yourself into a 1S specific ESC, you do have other options! It is possible to use your 2S ESC without a booster or receiver pack, and the ESC simply supplies the lower voltage. If that does not appeal to you, you will need to use an Rx pack or booster. The Rx pack and booster will both supply the receiver with a higher voltage than the 1S pack.

If you decide to use an Rx pack, MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE RED WIRE FROM THE ESC PLUG THAT GOES INTO THE RECEIVER!!!

If you choose to use a voltage booster, it works exactly how it sounds. Instead of plugging the ESC into the receiver, it plugs into the booster, and the booster plug goes to the ESC, supplying the higher voltage.

1S ESC:
If there are any missing please add them!!

If anyone would like a need for a chart comparing the ESC's specs PM fenton06 and I'll get one made and put in here!
Voltage Boosters:
If there are any missing please add them!
Servos:
BODIES:
Black Art (CRC - US Dist):
  • Audi R8C - BA002 - .020 Thick



  • Black Market (Mohawk 12) - BA005 - .020



  • Lola B10 - BA006 - .020 thick
  • Toyota TS030 - BA008 - .020 thick

    Lola - black/red, TS030 - green/pink


PROTOForm:

Reflex Racing/RSD:

SUSPENSION ADJUSTMENTS:

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Old 02-22-2009, 06:52 PM   #30841
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Two questions:

1. How do you regulate software?

2. How do you cheat with software?

Again people are talking about motor and esc of the week, but I don't see it. Sure there's a handful of people with the latest and greatest, but others with older stuff haven't lost anything.

And you want to talk expensive? How come there's no mention that the lastest batch of 1/12 scale cars has surpassed the $300 mark? I about choked when TC's hit that, now 1/12 scale??? You guys are barking up the wrong tree.
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Old 02-22-2009, 06:53 PM   #30842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrow1 View Post
The tuners with a box of motors and BATTS always seemed to love it for some reason.
And it's the tuners that are complaining the loudest about brushless motors
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Old 02-22-2009, 07:32 PM   #30843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiml View Post
Two questions:

1. How do you regulate software?

2. How do you cheat with software?

Again people are talking about motor and esc of the week, but I don't see it. Sure there's a handful of people with the latest and greatest, but others with older stuff haven't lost anything.

And you want to talk expensive? How come there's no mention that the lastest batch of 1/12 scale cars has surpassed the $300 mark? I about choked when TC's hit that, now 1/12 scale??? You guys are barking up the wrong tree.
Regulating and cheating with software is exactly the problems paintball had once markers went to electronic control mechanisms. You can come up with a basic set of rules for what software can and can not do...but it is impossible to catch hidden profiles that enable and disable with specific trigger pulls.

In your area you may not see the motor of the week...in ours we don't all that much either. But in more competitive areas you do. Heck when I was at the birds I saw a good deal of wholesale motor and ESC changes depending on which way the wind blew.
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Old 02-22-2009, 07:56 PM   #30844
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Personally, I think the whole "esc programming" thing is getting blown out of proportion. There comes a point with the timing settings when all you get is less efficiency and more heat. With the Tekin set-up for instance you can turn up the speedo timing and motor timing far enough that the motor won't even run properly. Once the speed control guys find the proper combination for timing it's going to level off some.

Yes, there will be some big changes to the speedo's in the next couple of years. It's still relatively new just like back in the day when brushed speedo's were developing so fast.

The big change now is that the speedo manufacturers are starting to give people the option of updating at home. Saves a ton of money when you can just download an update instead of dropping $200+ for a new speedo.

The first company that maps out the spec motors like an automotive engine (variable timing etc.) will have the first speedo to the finish line.
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Old 02-22-2009, 08:12 PM   #30845
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I agree that it would be impossible to regulate software, which is exactly why there is no such regulation. You can't have a cheater profile if there is no rule against it.
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Old 02-23-2009, 03:07 AM   #30846
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_B View Post
The first company that maps out the spec motors like an automotive engine (variable timing etc.) will have the first speedo to the finish line.
These ESC are here already. Some ESC did use variable timing from the beginning but this was in a safe area. Now there are some new ESC from GM, LRP and I think also Tekin what are going way beyond. These are taking the motors to their limit and now heat, gearing and runtime are way more critical than before.
I really like brushless but thatīs not what I want, I made the decision keeping with the BL systems what I have.
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Old 02-23-2009, 06:34 AM   #30847
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Originally Posted by InspGadgt View Post
In your area you may not see the motor of the week...in ours we don't all that much either. But in more competitive areas you do. Heck when I was at the birds I saw a good deal of wholesale motor and ESC changes depending on which way the wind blew.
I would have to argue that my track (well the track I visit once in a while) is probably one of the most competitive tracks in the country. The top racers have wins at Cleveland and Snowbirds, one of the owners is a ROAR national champion, and one racer is now so famous several people here use his face as an avatar! (Sorry Mike had to do it) So whatever the latest and greatest thing is out there, one of these guys will have it. And the good thing is these racers are willing to share what they learn with the other racers.

What these racers have told me is that some of these changes will give you more power, but it's nothing like you could get from tuning a brushed motor. Sure, if you're at a really big race and you're in the A you're gonna need everything you can get. On the club level, it's not that necessary.
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Old 02-23-2009, 07:51 AM   #30848
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Some aren't going to like all the software updates and tweaking and some are. Just like some liked to tweak brushed stuff and some didn't.

We've been running the motors at the limit since the beginning. It's part of racing. The big change now is that you can run enough timing to make proper gearing next to impossible.

Sooner or later one of the speedo manufacturers will map out their motors and have a 4 cell and 6 cell profile for each spec motor. A proper motor map like a real race engine will be the way to go. I don't think the speedo manufacturers are there yet though.

In any case, the speedo updates are free and relatively painless if you have a decent speedo.
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Old 02-23-2009, 09:26 AM   #30849
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Originally Posted by Fred_B View Post
Some aren't going to like all the software updates and tweaking and some are. Just like some liked to tweak brushed stuff and some didn't.

We've been running the motors at the limit since the beginning. It's part of racing. The big change now is that you can run enough timing to make proper gearing next to impossible.

Sooner or later one of the speedo manufacturers will map out their motors and have a 4 cell and 6 cell profile for each spec motor. A proper motor map like a real race engine will be the way to go. I don't think the speedo manufacturers are there yet though.

In any case, the speedo updates are free and relatively painless if you have a decent speedo.
Maybe it's me, but didn't some of the brushed esc's have something similar to that? You know, where they had 6 or 7 programmed profiles, and one you could program yourself?
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Old 02-23-2009, 09:39 AM   #30850
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i am think he is talking more on the lines of being able to set in the speedo what timing, drive fequencys, and etc in the motor at different throttle points\rpm points. something similar to the setting in the ko vfs speed controllers. this was just for drive freqency, but you get the idea.
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Old 02-23-2009, 09:43 AM   #30851
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Brushed speedos had nothing like Fred is suggesting because there was no motor timing in the speedo. That's a brushless only thing. The only thing that could be considered even close would have been a servo slaved onto the throttle channel to rotate the endbell of a brushed motor to a different timing position for different trigger positions. Even then, it would only be part of what Fred suggested, because a true motor map would alter the timing based on throttle position AND motor RPM.

I'd be pretty happy to have a timing map based on RPM only... I'm not certain the throttle position would even be all that important... ideally I'd be able to set the initial timing, then the rpm at which the timing began to increase, and the rate of the increase. It could be a simple x-y graph, kind of like the throttle response screens we see on some speedo software, but would be timing position on the y axis instead of throttle output like you see now, and RPM on the x axis, rather than trigger position. A couple or three draggable points on the graph and you'd have something...
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Old 02-23-2009, 10:50 AM   #30852
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There are a lot more settings to map in than just timing like the duration that the wind is on and the frequency that it's running at. It would take some testing to figure all this out.

With the spec motors we're pretty much full throttle all the time so you would probably only need a full throttle map. It's really not a big deal for mod because you can run more motor than is needed.
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Old 02-23-2009, 11:16 AM   #30853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trips View Post
Brushed speedos had nothing like Fred is suggesting because there was no motor timing in the speedo. That's a brushless only thing. The only thing that could be considered even close would have been a servo slaved onto the throttle channel to rotate the endbell of a brushed motor to a different timing position for different trigger positions. Even then, it would only be part of what Fred suggested, because a true motor map would alter the timing based on throttle position AND motor RPM.

I'd be pretty happy to have a timing map based on RPM only... I'm not certain the throttle position would even be all that important... ideally I'd be able to set the initial timing, then the rpm at which the timing began to increase, and the rate of the increase. It could be a simple x-y graph, kind of like the throttle response screens we see on some speedo software, but would be timing position on the y axis instead of throttle output like you see now, and RPM on the x axis, rather than trigger position. A couple or three draggable points on the graph and you'd have something...
Personally I find it fascinating that our little toy cars have advanced to this level of technology.

However wouldn't you have to have dynamic timing, because your top RPM would reduce as your battery voltage drops?

And here's another scenario, I would imagine it would be possible to tune a speedo for a particular track, taking into consideration the length of the straights and number of turns (and Trips you would try this!). But this would take hours of track time and experimentation, and when you finally had it perfect...they change the track on you!

Dont'cha love RC racing!
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Old 02-23-2009, 12:11 PM   #30854
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Jim that is great that you don't have the problem where you race either. As I said we don't either currently but I've seen it in the past and several people in other areas are still seeing it. Either way the fast guys are still going to be fast even if they get a not so good motor. And while the Birds is a big race, there still was people changing out not only motor but ESC too. In the past at a big race with hand out stocks you'd buy what 3, 4, 5 extra motors to get on pace? To be equal to the expense we saw in 17.5 BL you'd have to buy 10 extra motors.

My point being...while some people were forecasting something could be done with software in the future no one knew everything that we are now seeing. We don't yet know what other changes the future will bring and until the industry settles down people will continue switch ESCs and motors when the next latest greatest advantage comes out. So then do we regulate software? If we do that may help bring about more standardization but also opens up opportunities for people to find their way around the regulations. If we don't we'll see a few generations of obsolete ESCs before things finally settle down. Maybe we've hit that point already...maybe we haven't. Only time will tell.
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Old 02-23-2009, 12:11 PM   #30855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiml View Post
Personally I find it fascinating that our little toy cars have advanced to this level of technology.

However wouldn't you have to have dynamic timing, because your top RPM would reduce as your battery voltage drops?

And here's another scenario, I would imagine it would be possible to tune a speedo for a particular track, taking into consideration the length of the straights and number of turns (and Trips you would try this!). But this would take hours of track time and experimentation, and when you finally had it perfect...they change the track on you!

Dont'cha love RC racing!
Voltage could be part of the map. It all depends on how things are set-up and how much memory they have onboard. Even with an assumed voltage (battery type) it would be a lot better than what we have now.
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