1LikesTLR 22SCT Thread (Check First Page for FAQ & INFO)
11-16-2013, 09:33 AM
#8641
Anyone have any success conquering severe traction rolling? Indoor clay track with super grip keeps sending the SCT into barrell roles when carrying speed through the sweeper. Running slicks all around right now and im thinking of putting the bar codes back in the front to take away front grip. I already tried roll center, springs, played with camber and camber gain, ride height and all results have me taking my finger off the trigger completely 
11-16-2013, 11:58 AM
#8643
Ive already went as low as 26mm. Keep going lower? Theres a few huge jumps but i guess i could try. As for sway bars are they allowed in 17.5 blinky? I thought i heard someone say they werent allowed
run it in the weeds
11-16-2013, 02:33 PM
#8645
30/5 with the 2.0 parts is as close to 30/10 older design as you can get, since the 2.0 hubs are only available (at this time) in 0* and 5* variants.
for springs, you should consider picking up Truck Green and Truck Black front spings for the front, most are running Green(softer), Blue(kit), or Black (stiffer).
Looking at set up sheets, alot of guys are running the Buggy Yellow rear spring. or a LF spring of some sort.
the 2 hole pistons are great, either the Associated big bores or the new TLR machined ones will do you fine. I like 1.5x2 front and 1.6x2 rear. I think I have 25wt assoc oil all around, and I run 27.5 in hotter weather.
Are you 1.5 in front and 1.6 in the back because that mimics the 57 and 55 -- i.e., smaller hole piston up front, and larger hole piston in the back shocks?
Our track will be freezing cold very soon. I usually run 27.5 oil in the winter... Ive never tried anything thinner. It looks like one of the posts a couple pages back mentions you can go too thin on the oil, and actually lose traction bc of it.
11-16-2013, 04:01 PM
#8646
Are you 1.5 in front and 1.6 in the back because that mimics the 57 and 55 -- i.e., smaller hole piston up front, and larger hole piston in the back shocks?
Our track will be freezing cold very soon. I usually run 27.5 oil in the winter... Ive never tried anything thinner. It looks like one of the posts a couple pages back mentions you can go too thin on the oil, and actually lose traction bc of it.
Our track will be freezing cold very soon. I usually run 27.5 oil in the winter... Ive never tried anything thinner. It looks like one of the posts a couple pages back mentions you can go too thin on the oil, and actually lose traction bc of it.
yes, too thin can make the car handle differently.
how freezing cold?
just FYI, associated and Losi oils are a little different in viscosity rating.
you can have tlr oil and assoc oil the same viscosity, but assoc is rated 2.5 weights thicker
iex. TLR 27.5 = Assoc. 25.
I would use losi oil, but my hobbyshop isn't going to buy losi AND associated oil, which is understandable IMO.
11-16-2013, 06:10 PM
#8647
11-16-2013, 08:39 PM
#8648
I had a rather difficult time at the track again today. Trying to push the car a bit harder, it just wasn't taking it. The rear end continued to wash out very easily, going into corners as well as coming out of corners on power. After speaking with our local national-trophy-winning guru, I tried some setup changes, one at a time
First, I went up to the stiffest front sway bar, leaving the rear with the thinnest one. I then added the two brass transmission weights back on, as I run a shorty all the way forward. Next, I started to move the rear shocks inward on the shock tower, one hole at a time, eventually moving them all the way in. I then adjusted ride height to 27mm front and 26mm rear.
The net effect of these changes, all combined in the end, was more rear grip. However.. the rear of the car dips over in corners a lot more now (as expected). I'm not sure how I feel about that, it feels... sluggish and slow. In addition, I actually manged to traction roll a few times just by steering left/right/left quickly, I'm assuming when the edges of the tires dug in.
In the end, though my lap times improved, I feel like the car is still difficult to drive. Specifically, I feel like there is a VERY small margin for error. If you're a good driver I'm sure you'd love it, but the second you screw anything up, push too hard, oversteer, etc., the car is unforgiving and the rear still kicks out.
I also made the mistake of driving my friend's 10.2. With a slightly modified kit setup (just some different springs), the car felt amazing. Planted, glued, I could push it and push it and it gave me a large amount of warning before it let go. That's when I realized that I don't trust my 22 in the corners, at all. I mentally cringe every time I take a turn, fearing a wash out. That's not right.
The only other idea I have is to reduce my castor. I'm running the aluminum buggy block (25* I believe) with the 2.0 5* castor blocks. Since our track is smooth clay, I'm thinking of going with the 0* castor, which should, in theory, reduce my steering. I suppose I could also go to black front springs or stand the front shocks up more.
I don't want to jump ship to AE, but... I'm starting to lose faith.
First, I went up to the stiffest front sway bar, leaving the rear with the thinnest one. I then added the two brass transmission weights back on, as I run a shorty all the way forward. Next, I started to move the rear shocks inward on the shock tower, one hole at a time, eventually moving them all the way in. I then adjusted ride height to 27mm front and 26mm rear.
The net effect of these changes, all combined in the end, was more rear grip. However.. the rear of the car dips over in corners a lot more now (as expected). I'm not sure how I feel about that, it feels... sluggish and slow. In addition, I actually manged to traction roll a few times just by steering left/right/left quickly, I'm assuming when the edges of the tires dug in.
In the end, though my lap times improved, I feel like the car is still difficult to drive. Specifically, I feel like there is a VERY small margin for error. If you're a good driver I'm sure you'd love it, but the second you screw anything up, push too hard, oversteer, etc., the car is unforgiving and the rear still kicks out.
I also made the mistake of driving my friend's 10.2. With a slightly modified kit setup (just some different springs), the car felt amazing. Planted, glued, I could push it and push it and it gave me a large amount of warning before it let go. That's when I realized that I don't trust my 22 in the corners, at all. I mentally cringe every time I take a turn, fearing a wash out. That's not right.
The only other idea I have is to reduce my castor. I'm running the aluminum buggy block (25* I believe) with the 2.0 5* castor blocks. Since our track is smooth clay, I'm thinking of going with the 0* castor, which should, in theory, reduce my steering. I suppose I could also go to black front springs or stand the front shocks up more.
I don't want to jump ship to AE, but... I'm starting to lose faith.
11-16-2013, 10:34 PM
#8649
I'm guessing your running the right tires for the track. ?
AE are bad fast indoors. lol. I got a xxx-sct to try indoors.
AE are bad fast indoors. lol. I got a xxx-sct to try indoors.
11-17-2013, 03:11 AM
#8651
I had a rather difficult time at the track again today. Trying to push the car a bit harder, it just wasn't taking it. The rear end continued to wash out very easily, going into corners as well as coming out of corners on power. After speaking with our local national-trophy-winning guru, I tried some setup changes, one at a time
First, I went up to the stiffest front sway bar, leaving the rear with the thinnest one. I then added the two brass transmission weights back on, as I run a shorty all the way forward. Next, I started to move the rear shocks inward on the shock tower, one hole at a time, eventually moving them all the way in. I then adjusted ride height to 27mm front and 26mm rear.
The net effect of these changes, all combined in the end, was more rear grip. However.. the rear of the car dips over in corners a lot more now (as expected). I'm not sure how I feel about that, it feels... sluggish and slow. In addition, I actually manged to traction roll a few times just by steering left/right/left quickly, I'm assuming when the edges of the tires dug in.
In the end, though my lap times improved, I feel like the car is still difficult to drive. Specifically, I feel like there is a VERY small margin for error. If you're a good driver I'm sure you'd love it, but the second you screw anything up, push too hard, oversteer, etc., the car is unforgiving and the rear still kicks out.
I also made the mistake of driving my friend's 10.2. With a slightly modified kit setup (just some different springs), the car felt amazing. Planted, glued, I could push it and push it and it gave me a large amount of warning before it let go. That's when I realized that I don't trust my 22 in the corners, at all. I mentally cringe every time I take a turn, fearing a wash out. That's not right.
The only other idea I have is to reduce my castor. I'm running the aluminum buggy block (25* I believe) with the 2.0 5* castor blocks. Since our track is smooth clay, I'm thinking of going with the 0* castor, which should, in theory, reduce my steering. I suppose I could also go to black front springs or stand the front shocks up more.
I don't want to jump ship to AE, but... I'm starting to lose faith.
First, I went up to the stiffest front sway bar, leaving the rear with the thinnest one. I then added the two brass transmission weights back on, as I run a shorty all the way forward. Next, I started to move the rear shocks inward on the shock tower, one hole at a time, eventually moving them all the way in. I then adjusted ride height to 27mm front and 26mm rear.
The net effect of these changes, all combined in the end, was more rear grip. However.. the rear of the car dips over in corners a lot more now (as expected). I'm not sure how I feel about that, it feels... sluggish and slow. In addition, I actually manged to traction roll a few times just by steering left/right/left quickly, I'm assuming when the edges of the tires dug in.
In the end, though my lap times improved, I feel like the car is still difficult to drive. Specifically, I feel like there is a VERY small margin for error. If you're a good driver I'm sure you'd love it, but the second you screw anything up, push too hard, oversteer, etc., the car is unforgiving and the rear still kicks out.
I also made the mistake of driving my friend's 10.2. With a slightly modified kit setup (just some different springs), the car felt amazing. Planted, glued, I could push it and push it and it gave me a large amount of warning before it let go. That's when I realized that I don't trust my 22 in the corners, at all. I mentally cringe every time I take a turn, fearing a wash out. That's not right.
The only other idea I have is to reduce my castor. I'm running the aluminum buggy block (25* I believe) with the 2.0 5* castor blocks. Since our track is smooth clay, I'm thinking of going with the 0* castor, which should, in theory, reduce my steering. I suppose I could also go to black front springs or stand the front shocks up more.
I don't want to jump ship to AE, but... I'm starting to lose faith.
11-17-2013, 07:16 AM
#8652
I had a rather difficult time at the track again today. Trying to push the car a bit harder, it just wasn't taking it. The rear end continued to wash out very easily, going into corners as well as coming out of corners on power. After speaking with our local national-trophy-winning guru, I tried some setup changes, one at a time
First, I went up to the stiffest front sway bar, leaving the rear with the thinnest one. I then added the two brass transmission weights back on, as I run a shorty all the way forward. Next, I started to move the rear shocks inward on the shock tower, one hole at a time, eventually moving them all the way in. I then adjusted ride height to 27mm front and 26mm rear.
The net effect of these changes, all combined in the end, was more rear grip. However.. the rear of the car dips over in corners a lot more now (as expected). I'm not sure how I feel about that, it feels... sluggish and slow. In addition, I actually manged to traction roll a few times just by steering left/right/left quickly, I'm assuming when the edges of the tires dug in.
In the end, though my lap times improved, I feel like the car is still difficult to drive. Specifically, I feel like there is a VERY small margin for error. If you're a good driver I'm sure you'd love it, but the second you screw anything up, push too hard, oversteer, etc., the car is unforgiving and the rear still kicks out.
I also made the mistake of driving my friend's 10.2. With a slightly modified kit setup (just some different springs), the car felt amazing. Planted, glued, I could push it and push it and it gave me a large amount of warning before it let go. That's when I realized that I don't trust my 22 in the corners, at all. I mentally cringe every time I take a turn, fearing a wash out. That's not right.
The only other idea I have is to reduce my castor. I'm running the aluminum buggy block (25* I believe) with the 2.0 5* castor blocks. Since our track is smooth clay, I'm thinking of going with the 0* castor, which should, in theory, reduce my steering. I suppose I could also go to black front springs or stand the front shocks up more.
I don't want to jump ship to AE, but... I'm starting to lose faith.
First, I went up to the stiffest front sway bar, leaving the rear with the thinnest one. I then added the two brass transmission weights back on, as I run a shorty all the way forward. Next, I started to move the rear shocks inward on the shock tower, one hole at a time, eventually moving them all the way in. I then adjusted ride height to 27mm front and 26mm rear.
The net effect of these changes, all combined in the end, was more rear grip. However.. the rear of the car dips over in corners a lot more now (as expected). I'm not sure how I feel about that, it feels... sluggish and slow. In addition, I actually manged to traction roll a few times just by steering left/right/left quickly, I'm assuming when the edges of the tires dug in.
In the end, though my lap times improved, I feel like the car is still difficult to drive. Specifically, I feel like there is a VERY small margin for error. If you're a good driver I'm sure you'd love it, but the second you screw anything up, push too hard, oversteer, etc., the car is unforgiving and the rear still kicks out.
I also made the mistake of driving my friend's 10.2. With a slightly modified kit setup (just some different springs), the car felt amazing. Planted, glued, I could push it and push it and it gave me a large amount of warning before it let go. That's when I realized that I don't trust my 22 in the corners, at all. I mentally cringe every time I take a turn, fearing a wash out. That's not right.
The only other idea I have is to reduce my castor. I'm running the aluminum buggy block (25* I believe) with the 2.0 5* castor blocks. Since our track is smooth clay, I'm thinking of going with the 0* castor, which should, in theory, reduce my steering. I suppose I could also go to black front springs or stand the front shocks up more.
I don't want to jump ship to AE, but... I'm starting to lose faith.
have you tried a stiffer front spring?
alot of guys are running Blue or Black up front.
also, turning down the steering, or reducing the total steering throw may help as well.
11-17-2013, 08:15 AM
#8653
I had a rather difficult time at the track again today. Trying to push the car a bit harder, it just wasn't taking it. The rear end continued to wash out very easily, going into corners as well as coming out of corners on power. After speaking with our local national-trophy-winning guru, I tried some setup changes, one at a time
First, I went up to the stiffest front sway bar, leaving the rear with the thinnest one. I then added the two brass transmission weights back on, as I run a shorty all the way forward. Next, I started to move the rear shocks inward on the shock tower, one hole at a time, eventually moving them all the way in. I then adjusted ride height to 27mm front and 26mm rear.
The net effect of these changes, all combined in the end, was more rear grip. However.. the rear of the car dips over in corners a lot more now (as expected). I'm not sure how I feel about that, it feels... sluggish and slow. In addition, I actually manged to traction roll a few times just by steering left/right/left quickly, I'm assuming when the edges of the tires dug in.
In the end, though my lap times improved, I feel like the car is still difficult to drive. Specifically, I feel like there is a VERY small margin for error. If you're a good driver I'm sure you'd love it, but the second you screw anything up, push too hard, oversteer, etc., the car is unforgiving and the rear still kicks out.
I also made the mistake of driving my friend's 10.2. With a slightly modified kit setup (just some different springs), the car felt amazing. Planted, glued, I could push it and push it and it gave me a large amount of warning before it let go. That's when I realized that I don't trust my 22 in the corners, at all. I mentally cringe every time I take a turn, fearing a wash out. That's not right.
The only other idea I have is to reduce my castor. I'm running the aluminum buggy block (25* I believe) with the 2.0 5* castor blocks. Since our track is smooth clay, I'm thinking of going with the 0* castor, which should, in theory, reduce my steering. I suppose I could also go to black front springs or stand the front shocks up more.
I don't want to jump ship to AE, but... I'm starting to lose faith.
First, I went up to the stiffest front sway bar, leaving the rear with the thinnest one. I then added the two brass transmission weights back on, as I run a shorty all the way forward. Next, I started to move the rear shocks inward on the shock tower, one hole at a time, eventually moving them all the way in. I then adjusted ride height to 27mm front and 26mm rear.
The net effect of these changes, all combined in the end, was more rear grip. However.. the rear of the car dips over in corners a lot more now (as expected). I'm not sure how I feel about that, it feels... sluggish and slow. In addition, I actually manged to traction roll a few times just by steering left/right/left quickly, I'm assuming when the edges of the tires dug in.
In the end, though my lap times improved, I feel like the car is still difficult to drive. Specifically, I feel like there is a VERY small margin for error. If you're a good driver I'm sure you'd love it, but the second you screw anything up, push too hard, oversteer, etc., the car is unforgiving and the rear still kicks out.
I also made the mistake of driving my friend's 10.2. With a slightly modified kit setup (just some different springs), the car felt amazing. Planted, glued, I could push it and push it and it gave me a large amount of warning before it let go. That's when I realized that I don't trust my 22 in the corners, at all. I mentally cringe every time I take a turn, fearing a wash out. That's not right.
The only other idea I have is to reduce my castor. I'm running the aluminum buggy block (25* I believe) with the 2.0 5* castor blocks. Since our track is smooth clay, I'm thinking of going with the 0* castor, which should, in theory, reduce my steering. I suppose I could also go to black front springs or stand the front shocks up more.
I don't want to jump ship to AE, but... I'm starting to lose faith.
For the traction rolling, if you read the "Tune with camber links" thread there is discussion about traction rolling being a result of having too much roll stiffness. The idea being that raising the roll center or using heavier sway bars puts more load on the outside tire and less on the inside. When the outside tires get overloaded the result is a traction roll.
11-17-2013, 08:24 AM
#8654
I know said you tried alot of setups but please give this a try if u can. I have had the most fun and confidence with this setup. Just feels great i can push it hard and just cant break the rear end loose. Does exactly what i want. Very confidence inspiring. A guy at our tried it sold his sc10 and has been getting faster and way more consistent.
Front
Toe -1
Ride height 28mm
Caster 5 degree
Kick 30 degree
Sway bar none
Shock emulsion, 27.5 wt, 2x1.5 piston, blue spring
0 limiters, unscrewed shock end 3 turns
Shock location 2 outsideoutside
Bump steer 0
Camber link 1 i am using 2.0 steering rack
Spindle center, 0 on caster block, 3 mm on camber link 1
Front
Toe -1
Ride height 28mm
Caster 5 degree
Kick 30 degree
Sway bar none
Shock emulsion, 27.5 wt, 2x1.5 piston, blue spring
0 limiters, unscrewed shock end 3 turns
Shock location 2 outsideoutside
Bump steer 0
Camber link 1 i am using 2.0 steering rack
Spindle center, 0 on caster block, 3 mm on camber link 1
11-17-2013, 08:28 AM
#8655
I know said you tried alot of setups but please give this a try if u can. I have had the most fun and confidence with this setup. Just feels great i can push it hard and just cant break the rear end loose. Does exactly what i want. Very confidence inspiring. A guy at our tried it sold his sc10 and has been getting faster and way more consistent.
Front
Toe -1
Ride height 28mm
Caster 5 degree
Kick 30 degree
Sway bar none
Shock emulsion, 27.5 wt, 2x1.5 piston, blue spring
0 limiters, unscrewed shock end 3 turns
Shock location 2 outsideoutside
Bump steer 0
Camber link 1 i am using 2.0 steering rack
Spindle center, 0 on caster block, 3 mm on camber link 1
Front
Toe -1
Ride height 28mm
Caster 5 degree
Kick 30 degree
Sway bar none
Shock emulsion, 27.5 wt, 2x1.5 piston, blue spring
0 limiters, unscrewed shock end 3 turns
Shock location 2 outsideoutside
Bump steer 0
Camber link 1 i am using 2.0 steering rack
Spindle center, 0 on caster block, 3 mm on camber link 1