radek

Always interesting these discussions, Same changes having the opposite effect.

Ny guess is both you and Craig are correct. If you were running a higher roll center than Craig to begin with, allowing the car to roll more. Inclining the shocks would make it roll to much. Making corner exit difficult and unpredictable.

I'd like to know the difference between allowing body roll through roll center and shock inclination. Has anyone experimented with that?

And also why would Mayfield drill a fourth hole on the rear shock tower and then use the inner A-arm hole aswell?
Would this not be the same as having the shock one hole further out on both A-arm and tower with a stiffer spring/oil?

mjk1210

iTrader: (9)

further in on the arm is a softer setting.
further in on the tower is a softer setting.
moving in on the tower is less of a change as moving in on the arm.

what you described, "further out on both the A-arm and tower with a stiffer spring/oil?", would be very stiff compared to the further in on both with a softer spring.

radek

You are perfectly correct. I find thinking very difficult at times. Let me rephrase:

Would it not be the same as further out on both the A-arm and tower (Thus keeping same shock angle) with a softer spring/oil?

gticlay

iTrader: (14)

No, you also have to take into account how it affects the damping portion of the suspension. It's not just about the angle of the damper, but also the leverage on said damper - with it more toward the centerline of the car, the arm/wheel will have more leverage over the piston/oil and will change both high speed and low speed events.

mjk1210

iTrader: (9)

Agree with GTI -

Although you may be able to get somewhat close to a similar feel with a significantly lighter spring, there is only so light on oil you can go. The spring and oil work together but in some respects they do different things for the car's handling. And although it may feel similar in certain parts of corner, it will still be pretty different.
It's easier to spend 5 minutes at the track trying the change than to explain
it here. run 5 laps, change the shock to whatever oil and spring you like with the new position and run 5 more laps. It will be obvious that isn't the same.

Also, for shock angle each position is it's own setting and changes the feel. But standing the rears up a bit more will usually make the car feel more aggressive in the turns and can be a good change for a tight track with those "single tube 180s". If the track has long wide turns then laying them down on top can feel way easier to drive.

nitro-rob

The people at Losi are laughing at all of this. The Facebook 22 empire page has a lot of the same posted.

I refuse to speculate and will wait to see what it is.

radek

Thanks guys, I completely buy the oil/damping argument.

I Remember reading something Charlie Perez wrote about inner hole on the rear A-arm always being the fastest (ass b4.0). Even if you could go with lighter oil, softer spring and get something that felt the same on the bench, it would never be the same at the track. If I remember this correctly and this is a big if, he never really explained why. Now that I see maifield also drilling new holes in the tower and using the inner a-arm hole, I figured im missing out on some dark secret.

Davidka

iTrader: (86)

A lot of it is that very few (me included) have a grasp for piston speed, oil flow, spring rate and leverage ratio the way the full scale suspension guys do. I'm sure the settings are out there but without a shock dyno and a good grasp for the leverage ratios it's trial and error for us.

skeasor

hmmm...I run on a low to med at best and found that if I run a 1-inside on the rear shocks it seems exit corners more predictable.

Bomb-it

Is there any advantage to running a shorty pack on a rm setup running a 13.5? If there is what would be the best spot to start it at(front/back/middle). Sorry if that question has been asked before but I'm new to the 22 game. I have 2 shorty packs and a few standard packs just wondering what would be best to run.

Mudcat981

iTrader: (4)

Yes weight reduction

I would start in the middle. I ended up placing mine in the back because I was nosing to much with it forward.
Yes I am running RM.

Jerm13

iTrader: (36)

Always best to start in the middle. Then you can adjust either way.

I am too running RM. Cnat stand the way MM drive. Just me though.
Now that I am thinking of it, I am running exactly in the middle. Perfect balance of steering and rear bite...

LosiRacer33

iTrader: (3)

Running a setup close to Mayfields RCE setup. I have a lighter shock oil and 1.6 pistons all around (all I have in my box). Also running TLR springs. I was having a horrible issue with the tail end passing the front! Rear end was so loose, 180's! Both at the end of a long straight as well as on turn exit getting on the throttle. I had to drive the buggy so gently to make sure it didn't spin out! Last night I gave it a little more droop on the rear shocks (now exactly 31mm stroke) and I added 2mm on the rear inner camber link (total of 3mm now). WOW, what a difference!!! The car squats on power! With a little bit of drag brake on, I can now get it slowed down and put it tight into the corners. Car is hooked! Now if I could just drive it!

Jamie Hanson

iTrader: (39)

So I have always wondered and Maybe Mr. Root can offer a good explanation. Why does the 2wd buggy not use a D-ring style out drive when the 22-4 does? I imagine there is an reason behind this, but am not sure..

pyroMIKE

iTrader: (2)

So im trying to tune my buggy. Im running the rear motor setup. Seems that the rear end pivots around quicker than I like in 180 turns. What could I do to get the rear end to plant-pivot slower in the corners. The track is tight, I would say medium grip clay indoor.