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Old 10-14-2010 | 02:52 PM
  #241  
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Hey Lance,

I'm not out to steal any secrets but I'm very curious about the pinching process. I've sent you a PM before on resizing a B5 my buddy was gonna loan me but it kinda fell thru... I'm just curious as to how these sleeves could be pinched without crinkling the metal. Again, it's not like I would do it for myself but wanted to know about it, just to know really... Send me a PM if you prefer, or don't respond if it is some sort of secret, I'm just curious about it as I'm mesmerized on how these small 2 strokes operate at such extreme RPM's and I'm trying to learn about them. Just to learn really. I feel the more I understand them the better tuner I will be. We need some good tuners in my circle of friends so I'm trying to learn.

Thanks,
Rich
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Old 10-14-2010 | 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Do-Over
Hey Lance,

I'm not out to steal any secrets but I'm very curious about the pinching process. I've sent you a PM before on resizing a B5 my buddy was gonna loan me but it kinda fell thru... I'm just curious as to how these sleeves could be pinched without crinkling the metal. Again, it's not like I would do it for myself but wanted to know about it, just to know really... Send me a PM if you prefer, or don't respond if it is some sort of secret, I'm just curious about it as I'm mesmerized on how these small 2 strokes operate at such extreme RPM's and I'm trying to learn about them. Just to learn really. I feel the more I understand them the better tuner I will be. We need some good tuners in my circle of friends so I'm trying to learn.

Thanks,
Rich
Well Rich, Basically the tolerances we are dealing with here are very very small, down to .00001" . These engines have very close tolerances between the piston and sleeve. Because there are no rings like a conventional engine that are spring loaded and constantly wear in and keep the cylinder to piston seal. These engine rely only on the actual fitment of the piston and sleeve to do the sealing. Thus the reason you hear about people resizing sleeves that are way too tight, or making them out of round, or just not running correctly.

The piston/sleeve tolerances are EVERYTHING with these engines.

There are no secrets to resizing, but just like everything, everyone has a different way of doing things, and different opinions on what the best way is.

Basically there are some guys using clamps, that just clamps the sleeve. Or there is tooling, which Rayaracing(ray is a great guy and has a great service) and Rcrenew use. The tooling and equipment does not do the work for you, I think this is where people find out the hard way that its not easy for everyone to get this down to an art.

On tuning, it just takes practice, But if you look on werksracing.com they have a really easy way of tuning and understanding tuning posted under tech tip's. I Have told many people about Ron's (werks) tuning method and they all were very pleased with how it helped them.

Hope this helps a bit,

Take care,
Lance
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Old 10-14-2010 | 04:56 PM
  #243  
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Thanks buddy,

I hate it that you had to right all that out on my behalf but I appreciate it all the same. I understand the tolerances and why they have to be so perfect. I used to race 2 strokes and have done my share of rings and/or complete rebuilds in the garage, usually twice a season. I can usually get what I think is a good tune on 1 needle or the other but believe I may run a lean top that disguises a rich bottom or vice versa. It's that balance for the sweet spot that evades me. I think I just need more time to develop a better "ear" for this. I can get decent run times and steady temps also but my engines still don't sound like the pro's at the tracks I go to but I can be patient and work up to that. Thanks again for your time and I apologize for the lengthy nonsense, I'm just a talker I guess...
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Old 10-15-2010 | 12:25 PM
  #244  
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Originally Posted by Do-Over
Thanks buddy,

I hate it that you had to right all that out on my behalf but I appreciate it all the same. I understand the tolerances and why they have to be so perfect. I used to race 2 strokes and have done my share of rings and/or complete rebuilds in the garage, usually twice a season. I can usually get what I think is a good tune on 1 needle or the other but believe I may run a lean top that disguises a rich bottom or vice versa. It's that balance for the sweet spot that evades me. I think I just need more time to develop a better "ear" for this. I can get decent run times and steady temps also but my engines still don't sound like the pro's at the tracks I go to but I can be patient and work up to that. Thanks again for your time and I apologize for the lengthy nonsense, I'm just a talker I guess...


No problem!! In a nutshell, ALways verify you idle gap is correct first before you try and tune, it should be approx .5 to .8mm, then just always tune the top needle first, and dont even start tuning until the engine and chassis are heat saturated, Run the engine for at least 5 minutes before you start tuning. Start with the top, Richen the needle to where it will not open up and clean out, the just keeep leaning it an hour at a time until it screams, Now you know you are at the richest part of the top needle, if you back it out an hour or 2 and it goes fat nad will not "scream" then you know you are at a rich but good running needle setting for the top. You can go in "leaner" later, but this is a starting point. then after tuning the top with those high speed runs, then bring it in and see how it idles. if it idles high then richen the low speed needle until it idles low and smooth, if it want to die and stall, lean the low end needle until it idles steady. You should not have to adjust the actual throttle idle screw at all, excpet for maybe an hour once the idle gap is initially set, so the low needle screw is what you will be tweaking to in a sense , set your idle at this point.

Then just throw it on the track, and check temps you can then lean the top out more if your temps are on the cool side, and once you feel you have the top leaned out to where it screams but the temps are good and there is still good smoke coming from the exhaust, then go back to the low speed nedle and re-adjust it. how it idles will tell you if you need to lean or richen it after you do more adjusting on hte top. Then tune the bottom for steady idle and strong accelration, just be careful not to go to lean on the bottom. I see it all the time, guys tune the bottom to where it runs good,then in the midddle of a race 5 minutes into it the bottom loses punch because it got up to temp and was to lean on the bottom and they had no bottom end power. Thats why it good to tune when the engine ii is up to race temps.

A lot of guys try to tune in the first minute or two and have problems later after it warms up. Anyway Practice makes perfect.... Hope this helps!

Take care,
Lance
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Old 10-15-2010 | 03:29 PM
  #245  
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Russel, Richard and Glen WE received your orders today and they shipped out this afternoon. TRrcking #'s have been E-Mailed to you.

Have a Great weekend guys, and to answer a few questions our Orders are serviced monday thru saturday.

Thanks,
Lance
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Old 10-15-2010 | 05:33 PM
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Some of that I knew and some of it I didn't. Thanks that does help. I appreciate you taking the time to post that for me.
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Old 10-15-2010 | 07:56 PM
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No problem at all!

Take care,
Lance
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Old 10-16-2010 | 05:27 PM
  #248  
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James got your pm Thanks! will ship those out monday morning.

Lance
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Old 10-19-2010 | 12:41 PM
  #249  
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Pm's replied to guys, Thanks

Kenny, I E-Mailed you about your Plus 4, It needs a rod along with the resizing and bearings you requested. I found one from another engine that is in great shape I put in it for you for free, It only had about a gallon on it and was just sitting around in the parts box anyways!..lol That is shipping out today.

Verne, I inspected the piston sleeve you sent in to be repaired from the previous service that pinched it to tight, Unfortunatly it is not repairable. The sleeve is actually distorted and the plating is stress cracked. I will send that out to you first class mail, Sorry that I could not do anything for you on that one.

Take care and thank you,
Lance
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Old 10-19-2010 | 12:57 PM
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Lance I mailed my PS out yesterday
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Old 10-19-2010 | 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Rcrenew
Pm's replied to guys, Thanks

Kenny, I E-Mailed you about your Plus 4, It needs a rod along with the resizing and bearings you requested. I found one from another engine that is in great shape I put in it for you for free, It only had about a gallon on it and was just sitting around in the parts box anyways!..lol That is shipping out today.

Verne, I inspected the piston sleeve you sent in to be repaired from the previous service that pinched it to tight, Unfortunatly it is not repairable. The sleeve is actually distorted and the plating is stress cracked. I will send that out to you first class mail, Sorry that I could not do anything for you on that one.

Take care and thank you,
Lance
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NOW THATS GREAT SERVICE....#1
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Old 10-19-2010 | 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaz240
Lance I mailed my PS out yesterday

Man it is raining hard!!!!!! In SO-Cal!! Looks like winter is here!!lol

Last edited by heidmann1; 10-19-2010 at 05:22 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 10-19-2010 | 06:46 PM
  #253  
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Thanks James I will keep a look out for it!!

Man I hope its not raining this weekend... NO track time

Thanks guys!!
Lance
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Old 10-19-2010 | 07:19 PM
  #254  
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we get rain here in Arizona in August..since its now October we are good for 10 months
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Old 10-19-2010 | 08:39 PM
  #255  
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So it rains there in august, and when else? My family and I were thinking of moving out there possibly in the future? I wandered how much it rained in the winter season.

Thanks,James
Lance
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