R/C Tech Forums - WTH is wrong with your Kinetic's, Novak??

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WTH is wrong with your Kinetic's, Novak??

:flaming: I know this is a long rant, but if in fact somebody from Novak sees this(I know at least they used to post and read) and realizes just how close they are to losing a faithful customer forever, maybe things will change(??) Not just speed controls, but a lot of other Novak products(chargers and dischargers, receivers)

I'll just start this off with that I have been a offroad racer for 13 years, and have always been faithful to your products. So much so with the Cyclone's it was hard to go brushless, but a person I guess has to eventually roll with the changes.

Tried a LRP Sphere and 9.5 motor I purchased used last summer, I didn't really like the feel and adjustability of it. So, I purchased my FIRST Kinetic (#1) in December with a 17.5 through the Legacy program. Received in January, both marked and packaged as remanufactured units. No big deal I guess, they both looked new and I figured as much. At about the same time I purchased a 2nd Kinetic (#2) for Mod, which was also a remanufactured sealed package that a fellow racer had received back through the Upgrade program.

Raced the stock twice indoors, no problem, set aside. Raced #2(now with a 10.5 Viper) 3 race days after that and it went up in smoke(literally, so bad it stunk up the big shopping mall where we were racing for an hour). Pulled it and sent back in for warranty, put in #1. Ran it for three weeks, exact same thing happened, up in smoke on the first lap of a main--one week before a trophy race first week in April--

Since #2 had been sent in about a 2 weeks before, had my hobby shop(handling this return) call up Monday, see if they could put a rush on it. Customer rep said they were about a week behind, but would search. I knew that would probably put me SOL for that next weekend, and ordered a brand new Kinetic (#3) through the hobby shop so I knew I would have it in time. Raced it for about a month or so, warranty work of #2 (now #4) came back in new packaging. #3 was pulled out still working, #4 was put in.

Raced #4 for a couple races in April, was busy in May farming. First weekend outdoors here in June, first qualifier, car was hesitiating for about 2 laps, before it stopped. Thought maybe sensor wire, the speed control was throwing an error code of a locked rotor, although it clearly wasn't. Changed the wire, still was acting up while trying to figure out what was wrong, and then went up in smoke on the table. Put #3 back in for the evening with the same motor and original sensor wire and ran without a glitch.

Realize again #4 was in new packaging as warranty work from Novak, this will come up here later--

OK, #5 (warranty remanufactured from #1) had came back in the meantime, so I had put it in a week ago and set #3 aside again. I pretty much said to myself then, if I have another problem, I am done with Novak--period. 3 in 5 months is BS

Went racing at the indoor track last night. #5 made about 5 laps and slowed. Pulled it off, checked it out. Motor is cool, speedo is cool. Sensor wire and others in place. Turn it on, acting fine. Make another lap, does the same thing. Swap the sensor wire, same thing. Switch motor. In the pits, shut off, turn on, works for a minute, several times. Then notice timing (white) light going out just before it messes up--remember reading something about the timing going off in thermal shutdown. Check the onboard temp, all 5 lights are flashing--with the speedo cool to the touch, and reading 80 degrees with a temp gun--I guess all I can say good right now is at least #3 survived the night, maybe #5 was recording my onboard temperature :flaming:

#4 is on its way back for warranty through the hobby shop again, however, there is one catch that is probably going to bite my pocketbook, and if it does, you think I'm hot now :flaming: :flaming: -- #4's serial number did not match the serial # on the box, and this one was the new in package warranty one :eek: It is a digit off. I can't remember which is which, but the last digit is a 4 when the other is a 1. I will just bet you they will say they can't warranty it, the serial # on the speedo don't match their records--

Bob, I know you and others from Novak have posted here before, and I hope you at least read this and respond to me through personal mail. I sure there are others out there that have had numerous problems with your stuff but come on, this is 4 in about 5 months. 3 were reman's, 1 was (I would hope since it came in new packaging from you guys) brand new. It might be different if I was just a novice at this, but I'm not.

Right now(as you can probably tell), I'm not a happy camper. I will be calling Novak as soon as #5 is in the mail back to you guys, and I may for your customer rep's sake hold off until Monday to send it just so I can cool off a bit. As of right now, when I get these back, I will get rid off them and move to Viper. You and your customer service response and action in my case will determine that. To have to keep 3 Kinetic's in a revolving pattern to race one vehicle is pathetic--

I'm sorry to say it, but there is something seriously amiss with your quality control Novak.

Phil

+1 this has been so true at all our tracks

anything since the old Havac, GTB and XBR have been Junk.

Just last race I watched 1 Havoc Pro and 1 Kinetic go up in smoke. 1 racer installed a old GTB and it ran fine all day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmerphil22 (Post 9297308)

I'm not a happy camper. To have to keep 3 Kinetic's in a revolving pattern to race one vehicle is pathetic--

I'm sorry to say it, but there is something seriously amiss with your quality control Novak.

Quote:

Originally Posted by racer1812 (Post 5610766)

(03-29-2009, 12:43 PM )So my question is this, Is the shut down problem fixed or not??? I want another BL set-up and you can't beat the price of the havoc system. I've been an orange guy for over 20 years and have never seen Novak have a problem like this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by y2kgtp (Post 5615358)

I'd like to get one of these 150$ setups for 13.5T truck, but just worry about the number of problems reported.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vman11 (Post 5666947)

I just want to inform people that my Havoc system ( the Sport 8.5 ) has been problematic since day one. I 've been in RC cars some 15 years and has bought many Novak items. I really feel your pain and believe that Novak should somehow reimburse your shipping cost.

Anyway, my Havoc setup would cut off for no apparent reason since the first run. I tried all sort of gearing but Last night, at the track, it just stopped working for no apparent reason. The motor and speed control was cool. The red and green light was blinking and throttle input did not respond. Turning it off and on but then it would stop again.

I am taking it in for repair soon but I just want you guys to know of my experience with this setup.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blade329 (Post 5672249)

My Havoc died today and I am not happy. This is the second time this has happened. My first one died and Novak replaced it. I got about 4 laps in with this one before it was gone. It just stopped running and I could get no further throttle response from it, no matter which battery I put in. I am of the opinion that the Havoc is just a piece of garbage. I may or may not send it back in for repair. The way I feel now, I just might throw it in the trash, where it belongs, and get a different speed control. Chalk it up to a lesson learned about cheap ESC's. Worthless piece of crap!

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgeldz (Post 5672977)

Well guys, add me to the list of folks with their Havoc ESC cutting out.

Didn't get more than half a lap before it just stopped. Came back on and I got around the backside of the course, and it cut out again.

I used all sorts of batteries (NiMs, Lipo's) and it still cut out. I took all the electronics out of the car today (Tamiya DB01 4wd buggy) to inspect it.

It's at the point where I can literaly tap the heat sink and it'll turn off and turn on again. Seems to do it with any slight impact. Imagine in an off road car what that'd be like. Every fricking jump it cuts off!

I've been very pleased with Novak products in the past, but this Havok system is causing more "Havoc" than fun!

Novak, what do I need to do to send it in for repair?

- Paulie

Quote:

Originally Posted by y2kgtp (Post 5678919)

I won't be getting one of these for sure now....too many complaints.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brickshouse (Post 5685593)

i bought a havok 8.5 system in feb. and esc has run fine but 2 sensor wires broke off right at the harness(going into the esc) in a middle of the damn race. I've never touched any of the wires it was all connected and soldered right out of the box. I had th spend 15 bucks to have it shipped, they got it friday, and still no response.......tried emailind today...see what happens. Guess i should be happy its not the esc like you guys.....not yet at least:nod:

Quote:

Originally Posted by muzza_t (Post 5726317)

Well my Havoc has just started doing what everyone elses has been doing, motor thermal cutoff keeps cutting in at 130-140 degrees.

to Steve Weiss, I have sent you an email to your Novak address in regards to this problem. I hope living in Australia won't prevent me from a fast reponse in sorting this issue out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by muzza_t (Post 5730253)

You're lucky it only took 2 weeks, I'm in Australia and now having to send mine back to the states, kiss goodbye to over a months worth of racing by the time i get mine back. 6 meetings of no points:flaming:

Quote:

Originally Posted by TfnG (Post 5814020)

sent mine in yesterday...:(

Quote:

Originally Posted by stallen50 (Post 8773388)

has anyone had problems with not having much brakes with the havoc pro? I have tryed every setting and still can only get about 1/2 brakes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnineyes (Post 9202336)

This was my favorite part; "and the red brand was expensive and the orange brand is even worse than dealing with bec's."

I took this to mean, "at least it isnt orange."

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmerphil22 (Post 9297308)

I'm not a happy camper. To have to keep 3 Novak Kinetic's in a revolving pattern to race one vehicle is pathetic

Feel free to add me to your list. Its not often you have to pull a brand new product apart just to make it work. As one user has already said...good time and money down the drain. Novak, I understand you are trying to help the consumers, but please ensure the product performs its function prior to release.

I installed a Novak Kinetic/13.5 combo in my Losi 22 last week. I ran it on my backyard track for less than 3 minutes. I noticed the car was making a little noise so I pulled it over to me and it came to a stop rather quickly (didnt coast to a stop). I figured something went bad in the diff so I temped it (130) and headed into my house......POOF.... the whole Speed control goes up in smoke and catches fire!!!! I put the fire out and checked things out further......the damn motor seized a bearing or something worse!

3 minutes and both the motor and SC are toast!

That concludes my short visit to Novak-ville. I wont be going back!

One of my kinetics fried a couple weeks ago when I was teasing my dog in the house, on the carpet. I emailed a guy at Novak and he asked which ESC's I had. I told him two Kinetics, (one of them fried) and a havoc. He told me to send them all in, that they'd fix and update them all.

[email protected]

Their products have had some issues but it seems they have outstanding customer service.

I don't have any kinetic esc, but I do run novak ballistic motors. To me, the motors are the best out there, the new esc's, to put it mildly are not. Novak tried to out tekin tekin with boost, timing, etc. The result is bad to say the least. The old novak gtb's run fine.

In terms of what is causing the problems, I think novak issues are similar to lrp issues in offroad cars. Most failures that I have seen come from shock and shorting inside the esc. The older lrp esc's were larger and used a single large circuit board. The newer esc's are smaller and use multiple circuit boards sandwiched together. If the shock is great enough (hard landing, etc,) the boards can touch and short against each other = toasty esc. Another issue is insulating the esc from shock. Most racers use 1 layer of servo tape, or even worse, shoogoo the esc to the chassis. This doesn't limit shock to the esc. I have always used 2 layers of servo tape under the esc and it seems to help.

In my opinion, you can buy whatever you want for onroad because the shock isn't there. For off-road racing, run the older lrp's (sphere, spx, etc,) or the tekin rs/pro. Simple as that.

Howdy Folks,

As always, feel free to email Novak Directly for assistance. Posting on a forum has it's effects as I'm sure you're all aware, but so do emails.

[email protected]
[email protected]

or if you want to go strait to me, [email protected]

Thanks for understanding!
Charlie Suangka
Novak Electronics
(2 doors down from Bob Novak :))

I feel your pain. Last summer, purchased a Ballistic motor to run on a Traxxas VX-L 3S esc. Got it home, motor wouldn't work. After contacting Novak, all cs kept telling me was that it was a problem with the esc, and that Traxxas' esc won't work with Novak motors. So what do I do? Go to my LHS and get a screaming deal on a new LRP Sphere Comp esc. Get it home, Ballistic motor still won't work. I call Novak cs again, and once again, its the esc's fault, and I'm told that the Ballistic motor will only work with a Novak esc.

At this point I took the motor to my LHS, and had it tested thoroughly on every esc they had available to test on...verdict, burned up sensor board on the Ballistic motor. Call Novak again, and even had to get my LHS rep to step in and verify that I didn't personnally damage the motor, finally they agreed to replace under warranty.

Got the motor back, then the mounting threads on the bell are just a hair oversized to the point that no mounting screw will grab the threads to be able to tighten it down in a car. Ended up having to by a new bell. ANd guess what, it does work with any sensored esc.

Haven't had any problems with my current GTB2 VTA setup I just reluctantly purchased, so I could be legal in VTA class, but definitely have had my issues with Novak products.

I had a kinetic burn up ,send it back and covered under warrenty
it is working great now and came back setup with the latest firmware
program

also have a havok and a havok pro and never had a problem

have a old 4 cell gtb just keeps going, was going to do the trade in program as the brake feel is terrible and no lipo cut off.
but its $59 replacement and $59.60 post = $118.60

or
hobbywing just stock (does the same as novak gtb2) $53 and $20 express post = $73
or
hobbywing xtreme stock (boost/turbo/blinky $90 and $20 post

both cheaper options and new esc,s plus they can be programmed with out going threw the stupid light routine
novak was still looking good till i seen the postage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferenczy36 (Post 9324389)

I feel your pain. Last summer, purchased a Ballistic motor to run on a Traxxas VX-L 3S esc. Got it home, motor wouldn't work. After contacting Novak, all cs kept telling me was that it was a problem with the esc, and that Traxxas' esc won't work with Novak motors. So what do I do? Go to my LHS and get a screaming deal on a new LRP Sphere Comp esc. Get it home, Ballistic motor still won't work. I call Novak cs again, and once again, its the esc's fault, and I'm told that the Ballistic motor will only work with a Novak esc.

At this point I took the motor to my LHS, and had it tested thoroughly on every esc they had available to test on...verdict, burned up sensor board on the Ballistic motor. Call Novak again, and even had to get my LHS rep to step in and verify that I didn't personnally damage the motor, finally they agreed to replace under warranty.

Got the motor back, then the mounting threads on the bell are just a hair oversized to the point that no mounting screw will grab the threads to be able to tighten it down in a car. Ended up having to by a new bell. ANd guess what, it does work with any sensored esc.

Haven't had any problems with my current GTB2 VTA setup I just reluctantly purchased, so I could be legal in VTA class, but definitely have had my issues with Novak products.

I am forwarding this to our CS and tech support group.

It is highly unlikely that you were told that our Ballistics would not work with other mfgs' controllers! Our motors have always worked with the appropriate sensored, BL escs! I apologize if your motor problem was not diagnosed and taken care of in a speedy fashion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NovakTwo (Post 9327535)

Thanks for the response. Dropped you a PM and will state again here that so far I am liking and have had no problems whatsoever with my GTB2 VTA setup.