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-   -   Viper RC - (https://www.rctech.net/forum/radio-electronics/455152-viper-rc.html)

godofcable 05-09-2013 07:58 AM


Originally Posted by boostem (Post 12133512)
Possibly, but that doesn't explain the flashing V-port lights or power cutoff by the controller.

which ESC do you have

boostem 05-09-2013 09:22 AM

the copperhead-r

Wildcat1971 05-09-2013 10:43 AM

3S Li-Po w/ 550 class: KV≤4000 for the "R"
3S Li-Po w/ 540 class: KV ≤ 4000 for the NON "R"
so in either case, you will want the 3800kv 540 viper

godofcable 05-09-2013 10:46 AM


Originally Posted by boostem (Post 12133887)
the copperhead-r

did you have a solid N light, and F-R were flashing? that would mean esc overheat

boostem 05-09-2013 11:13 AM


Originally Posted by Wildcat1971 (Post 12134183)
3S Li-Po w/ 550 class: KV≤4000 for the "R"
3S Li-Po w/ 540 class: KV ≤ 4000 for the NON "R"
so in either case, you will want the 3800kv 540 viper

Thanks wildcat, that's what I was thinking because at that high of a KV, 3s batts wouldn't work well.


Originally Posted by godofcable
did you have a solid N light, and F-R were flashing? that would mean esc overheat

Yeah I saw that the lights were flashing. I didn't not notice if the N light off, on or flashing at all. If it happens today i'll be sure to take in all the details.

godofcable 05-09-2013 11:17 AM


Originally Posted by boostem (Post 12134291)
Thanks wildcat, that's what I was thinking because at that high of a KV, 3s batts wouldn't work well.



Yeah I saw that the lights were flashing. I didn't not notice if the N light off, on or flashing at all. If it happens today i'll be sure to take in all the details.

i'm leaning heavily toward the voltage on the batts, when you punch the throttle the voltage drops, it would be very easy for it to trick the LVC on the ESC and cause it to stop.

Let us know if it happens again

Screamin Steve 05-09-2013 11:39 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by nikos2002 (Post 12128749)
Look at it as two different settings. Boost gets you going its - the kick it the but to get you off the line and start the acceleration process. The top speed is the extra timing from when you kit that rpm point you designated earlier. Added in the Slew Rate - which is how hard the process gets kicked in the but.

Now if you make it too aggressive with a higher rpm motor -- it will start to act erratic -- which is probably what LosiPRACER is seeing in the Open Mode, because his profile probably has a good bit of Timing, and Slew Rate involved.

Many people hear boost and automatically think it has to be maximum setting to go the fastest. And that is not true. What you are trying to do is aid the natural acceleration you would get from the motor and the gear ratio. You never really want to run 30º timing or anything higher than 4 slew rate under most circumstances. You want to set it to give yourself that extra push.

Its a process to really set it up right - there is no plug and play set up. Because everyone's track is different, driving style different, "feel" for what they want is different. So its an experiment to find the right set up for your needs.

Nikos2002, I think I understand this correctly but please confirm. I made a small graph to illustrate my perspective. If I put 10° of acceleration boost with a start RPM of 5,000 and finish RPM of 15,000, the timing response would look like the red line in my attachment. When the motor reaches the finish RPM the TST kicks in (5° per my example). The slew rate, or slope, of the TST will be very aggressive, or steep, when set at Level-10. ON the contrary, when set at Level-1 the slew rate is not aggressive. I added these different settings to the graph. And without any TST the acceleration boost timing plateaus.

Am I understanding this correctly?
Does the slew rate have a unit? In earlier versions of the firmware there was a unit established (degrees°/1,000 RPM). Now it is just a "Level".

The values I chose for the graph are arbitrary and not tied to any motor, track, vehicle combination. I am just trying to understand these parameters.

Other links I was referencing:
http://www.rctech.net/forum/11721911-post6709.html
http://www.rctech.net/forum/9888479-post3003.html

Thanks!

Wildcat1971 05-09-2013 11:49 AM

That is the way I think it works.

nikos2002 05-09-2013 05:38 PM

Steve - that's actually a very good representation of how it would look on graph. I was talking with some drivers today to try and find better ways to explain it, but thats actually a really good way to explain.

Technically Slew Rate does have a value, you were correct it was actually another variable in the old software, but we tried to simplify it in a55 because we felt it put the level of complications over the top - its easier to say 1-10 and leave the other settings to be complicated.

Thanks for the questions and the interest, the boost settings are ones that really have gone un-noticed by many but can make so much of a difference.

I was talking to a team driver today who added 15º of boost to a 1500kv 1/8 motor and was able to keep up with guys running 1900kv and 2100kv - so its not about putting in the highest levels is getting the right amount added.

nikos2002 05-09-2013 05:40 PM

Boostem - it does sound a bit like a low voltage or weak cell issue. Its becoming more common with these high amp draw 4 pole motors we all crave. But also if the lights are flashing it did detect a temp overload, depending on the lights would show which one, reference the manual to get a better idea. And remember, internal temperatures of the esc can be higher than what you read on the case where the fan is blowing.

Screamin Steve 05-09-2013 07:45 PM


Originally Posted by nikos2002 (Post 12135467)
Steve - that's actually a very good representation of how it would look on graph. I was talking with some drivers today to try and find better ways to explain it, but thats actually a really good way to explain.

Technically Slew Rate does have a value, you were correct it was actually another variable in the old software, but we tried to simplify it in a55 because we felt it put the level of complications over the top - its easier to say 1-10 and leave the other settings to be complicated.

Thanks for the questions and the interest, the boost settings are ones that really have gone un-noticed by many but can make so much of a difference.

I was talking to a team driver today who added 15º of boost to a 1500kv 1/8 motor and was able to keep up with guys running 1900kv and 2100kv - so its not about putting in the highest levels is getting the right amount added.

OK, Thank you for the reply.

For a while I was running 2wd mod buggy (8.5T) in blinky mode with about 20° endbell timing. I took away the endbell timing, went down a tooth on the pinion and added about 10° acceleration boost, no TST, and the car felt so much better on a high bite indoor clay track. On the infield portions there was much more get up and go with plenty low end grunt to clear some larger jumps. And on the straight away it felt just as fast and reached full speed quicker. Before I added the boost it felt like it was accelerating on the whole straight away and never got to top speed. You are absolutely correct, adding the boost opened new doors and really helped my lap times out.

nikos2002 05-09-2013 08:45 PM

Thanks Steve, glad you like.

Boostem- one more note I saw the 3s question. We really only recommend the R39 motor with 3s, and probably need to gear down to handle the extra power. When ever trying 3s over 2s you have to be careful and watch the heat build up.

boostem 05-10-2013 07:03 AM


Originally Posted by nikos2002 (Post 12135475)
Boostem - it does sound a bit like a low voltage or weak cell issue. Its becoming more common with these high amp draw 4 pole motors we all crave. But also if the lights are flashing it did detect a temp overload, depending on the lights would show which one, reference the manual to get a better idea. And remember, internal temperatures of the esc can be higher than what you read on the case where the fan is blowing.

I was a little surprised after I saw how far off the cells were but it is my cheapest battery.


Originally Posted by nikos2002
Boostem- one more note I saw the 3s question. We really only recommend the R39 motor with 3s, and probably need to gear down to handle the extra power. When ever trying 3s over 2s you have to be careful and watch the heat build up.

I will be gearing down, but want to use 3s and a lower turn motor so I wont have to watch the temps, unless I am trying something different. I need to use those two motors because its what I have at the moment. When I receive my 3000kv motor will this speed control (r series) have any problems running it? In any event im pretty new to the hobby, so I am experimenting, but not trying to cause anymore serious electrical issues.

mulepic 05-10-2013 07:29 AM

From my personal experience I would not use a 4-pole motor and/or 3S w/ a vtx10R. I tried it b/c the product description says it can and in about 3 minutes the esc stopped working. No smoke, no high temps, it just stopped. I sent it back and the nice Viper costumer service sent me a new one. It's just not worth it. Use the copper head or the vtx8 for the high output motors/batteries and save thh vtx10's for the 2-pole motors.

sapperc 05-10-2013 04:30 PM


Originally Posted by nikos2002 (Post 12135467)
...Technically Slew Rate does have a value, you were correct it was actually another variable in the old software, but we tried to simplify it in a55 because we felt it put the level of complications over the top - its easier to say 1-10 and leave the other settings to be complicated...

nikos2002, If you can, for those of us who would prefer to know, what is the value increase of each step of slew rate in the new software? Is it still 1 degree per 1000 RPM?


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