I've tested my two G5 rotors now. Both standard. First was 1730/-1740 with 0.4 degree deviation. Second was 1720/-1740 with 6.6 degree deviation. They're both close on the strength symmetry but one has a pretty big angular deviation.

Comparing the torque output between a HW G5 torque and a G4 with an option rotor from G4R (1780G), so the G4 would be more like a G4R in reality. You will see the timing information in the description of the graphs. The G5 draws more current even though it is at a slightly lower timing however the stator resistance of the G5 is lower so it will by nature draw a little more current.

There is virtually no difference in the efficiency throughout the rev range. There is a good bit of gain at the mid range while it retains the same top end, so it is a win for the G5.

I was able to get the timing deviation to be pretty close by using the 3 adjustment screws.

I have included a HW G4R 21.5t for reference.

I'm glad you guys are exposing the magic juju that is motor tunning. Or at least things the manufacturers(and the fast guys) don't want you to know.

I will have to work on the display of my test data, but on a Fantom I saw almost no difference between a G4R with the torque rotor or G5 with its torque rotor. The G4R was a epoxy version so on the way out. I did not check the strength of the rotors. On track they ran almost identical lap times too.

Yeah that tracks with what I heard.
I was looking at an R1 motor at Hoosier last summer. Guy there told me about half of them are DOA, but R1 will swap them no questions asked you’re just stuck waiting on shipping. I was trying to get away from my 2-year-old stock motors that are basically junk, and I needed something reliable that day, not “we’ll send a replacement eventually”…So I passed. Doesn’t sound like I made the wrong call.

^ sounds about right lol. once I was a fool and paid extra for the "Hand Picked" was also DOA. So what does hand picked mean lol. Won't make that mistake. Their marketing is A+ sorta like GoPro not the best camera

What do you mean by DOA? What problems did you have with it?

Went right on my Motolyser and would not turn, spun by hand magnet showed 44 degree asymmetry. Back in the box. They offered to replace, I had a race that weekend, so moved on.

My main problem is I paid extra for "hand picked" and it was that far off. What am I paying for? Pretty much lied to me & took my money. HW has always been very consistent.

As someone who sees many engines from people for a break in or even modifying I also see so called modified nitro engines which are hardly or never touched from stock. Last I had a so called team engine from Kabuto modified for the worlds but never used that was just a stock OS on the inside. Also from famous brands claiming to sell modified engines I see some to DLC coating removed with just none up to 2 degrees timing change while for a good fast engine a lot more can be done. People do pay up to 100 euro more for a stock OS engine or one with just the coating shaved off to show grinding marks.

But hey, if people do not have the tools to check it with also knowing what a stock engine has then they just rely on the name....

Many "Hand Picked" motors are a ripoff. In many cases, the manufacturer will not even run the motor. They just throw a high gauss rotor in it, adjust the timing to a generic setting they feel is accurate, then stamp "Certified" on it. I won't mention the person's name, but a very well-known motor tuner, for a very well-known company, admitted to doing that. To use a generic timing point is pretty lame. All motors run best at different timing points.

Properly tuning a motor takes a lot of time. The motor must be run multiple times because you have to run it after every time you adjust the timing. Sometimes, this can be over a dozen times until you find the right spot. Then you have to adjust the time sensors, and that takes time. I thought about selling tuned motors, but it's not worth the time and money. It can take an hour to tune a motor correctly and I might get $25 for it, after all the PayPal fees and shipping.

Most motors are picked by hand from the shelf....

If I'm not mistaken, hand picked on the R1 stuff only refers to the stator, not the rotor or sensor board. That was Trinity and Exalt.

Fantom Helix v2.1 are coming out...I guess it will be the v2 minus the epoxy...Let's see how they perform...