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Old 08-25-2004, 02:25 PM   #301
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i gave up on rebuilding my TR for now and bought a new one. i have completed the break-in process and have benn running the car around a parking lot, but it seems to want to run lean. O.S. suggests starting with the needle valve 2 full turns out from closed. i actually ran it richer during break-in. but as far as driving the car,it will only spool up when the needle is 1 1/4 to 1/12 turns out. does that seem to lean? i have a infrared temp gun(very high quality SNAP-ON gun) and i have been watching the temp closely,trying not to go over 240(210 during break-in). how hot is too hot?
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Old 08-25-2004, 02:35 PM   #302
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Of course all engines are different, but...

When I ran my standard TR last year, my final needle settings left me at around 1 1/4 turns out. Now depending on outside temp, I may have gone in/out an 1/8 of a turn, but essentially, I was always in that area. Usually with a runnig temp of 220-235. This was with the 10J slide carb.

With my new R-Spec and the 11A slide carb, I am pretty much at exactly 1 turn out. This left me with a max running temp of 198 on a 85 degree day. I've put the lower temp to the fact that this engine uses a significantly larger head than the original. Larger head=more cooling. Just like before, I may go in/out a 1/8 of a turn here or there depending on temp, but this seems to be just right on top end, fuel economy, and engine temp.

So your not too far off with your needle settings.
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Old 08-25-2004, 03:03 PM   #303
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cool,thanks. and yes its the 10j slide. my one last question(for now) is a what temp does damage or premature wear occur? i just hit 270 by accident, turned the needle out and the extra fuel cooled it right down. i just broke it in this morning so i am keeping a close eye on it. i do 2 laps around the parking lot an check temp, i have been doing this all afternoon. i am finding that it is a thin line between top performance and too hot. anyway if i hit these higher temps but catch it and cool it right down, is that dangerous?
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Old 08-25-2004, 03:14 PM   #304
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Quote:
Originally posted by sean
cool,thanks. and yes its the 10j slide. my one last question(for now) is a what temp does damage or premature wear occur? i just hit 270 by accident, turned the needle out and the extra fuel cooled it right down. i just broke it in this morning so i am keeping a close eye on it. i do 2 laps around the parking lot an check temp, i have been doing this all afternoon. i am finding that it is a thin line between top performance and too hot. anyway if i hit these higher temps but catch it and cool it right down, is that dangerous?
Some engine brands can run clear up to 300 without permanent damage......but that don't mean its a good idea either.

I would try to keep it below 250-255 just for safety sake. If you turn the needle in 1/8 turn incriments, you shouldn't go from normal to too hot that quickly! Just make small adjustments. But don't tune it by temp, tune it by the speed, fuel economy and sound of the engine. A temp gun is a good tool to have for damage prevention, but not for final engine tuning.
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Old 08-25-2004, 09:25 PM   #305
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That's about where I am. 1 and 1/8 of a turn out on the high end. The motor runs 198 degrees. I hear the motor makes best performance around 240.

Regarding the difference agian, there is also the lightened piston that is also made out of different aluminum I think with a higher silicon content. There should be updated piston and sleeve assemblies later on in the year. The R-spec is not the same as the E-spec listed in the manual with part number breakdown.
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Old 08-26-2004, 04:53 AM   #306
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i have about a quart of O'Donnel fuel through this thing and the piston still feels incredibly tight. the other thing is - the motor doesnt really perform well unless its on the lean side, kinda makes me nervous. it will have marginal speed and run very cool 190-200. i closed the needle no more than a 1/16 of a turn made 2 passes and it shot right up to 260. turned it back 1/16 of a turn and it cooled right off. very sensitive. oh, one other thing and this might be important.-when i take my temp readings i have been pointing the laser down into the top of the head,right where the plug seats-the hottest part of the engine. is that the correct way to read theses motors?
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Old 08-26-2004, 07:19 AM   #307
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Yeah, your taking the temp from the right place. And your piston is going to be tight for quite some time with the new engine.(good thing...trust me) It just shouldn't be making those kinda jumps in temp with only 1/16 turn changes.

I admit, I'm no expert on this stuff. I'm still watching every move the local engine gurus make so that I can learn all the tricks of the trade. So I might have told you everything I can.

The only other advise I can give is to find someone you know and trust who knows engines and ask them about it. Best case, if the person can actuallly be with you while your running the engine.
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Old 08-26-2004, 07:34 AM   #308
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Sean,

What type of fuel are you using? Also, what is the oil content of that fuel? Those two things make a big contributing factor in your engine temps shooting up with just a small turn of the high end needle. Also, when you adjusted the high end needle setting, did you make a small adjustment on the low end needle setting? Some forget that when changing your high end setting you may have to tweak the low end just a little (low end is not set in stone). The same tweak may have to be done on the mid range needle as well (not set in stone either). Just curious to know what are the circumstances behind your radical temp swings.
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Old 08-26-2004, 08:11 AM   #309
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unfortunatley there really is nobody with expierience around here,no track either. the closest one is 1.5 hours away. i am mostly just parking lot bashing for now untill my work schedual allows me to get away. i have not touched the low end yet. the funny thing is that when it appears to be running hot, is also when it sounds the best and smoothest. i have to check the calibration of my temp probe.
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Old 08-26-2004, 08:14 AM   #310
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It's good to see that so many of you are pleased with the new engine. I too ran the R-Spec at the Texas Biggie and have been running it locally this summer. Ron has had good success with it as well. My engines are box stock and still run with more expensive ROAR and 5 port engines locally.

As for tuning, don't tune solely by temperature. The engine must "sound" and carb correctly. You can tune by a max temp if you wish to protect your engine but, the max for any given engine is dependent on many things. If you have a higher air temp, the engine will run hotter at max power. If the air is cooler, the reverse is true. Humidity affects things as well, so does weather - cloudy, sunny, etc. I always tune my engine for max power and check the plug to confirm the engine is not too lean. I then check the temp to have a reference point.

I almost never touch the "mid-range needle" The mid-range is not a needle anyway, it's the spraybar. If you move it you affect the ENTIRE throttle range from idle up to WOT. The only time I touch it is during break in IF the engine is running especially rich across the entire range and the other needles are close to "normal" settings. I adjust my high speed for best power and then tune the low speed for best accelleration. The engine should settle back to idle from WOT quickly without run-on. Let the engine idle for 10-15 secs. and then go back to WOT, the engine should not hesitate or stumble but clear out easily and accellerate hard.

Hope this helps. Enjoy your O.S. power!!

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Old 08-26-2004, 09:34 AM   #311
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thanks for the help guys, i will try some more experimenting after work today. i may have been holding my temp gun too close also.
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Old 08-26-2004, 03:47 PM   #312
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i dont know, not very good today. i only got to run two tanks though and ran out of fuel. another thought i had was my driving. i have not been running on a track yet, just speeding around a parking lot. the fact that i am on throttle more than off might be why it tends to get hot. you guys are racing on a track and are probably not at WOT except on the straight,right? is there any fuel that has more oil than the others? i am using O'Donnel 20% right now.
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Old 08-26-2004, 03:52 PM   #313
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I use Sidewinder 20% with 12 % oil and 30% with 12% oil (I started with 20% but have bought some new motor and switching to 30%). Byron is another good fuel to use; it gives you some extra oil for lubrication. I have used O'donnel's, Blue Thunder, and others, but have found Sidewinder and Byron's better suit my tuning and racing needs.
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Old 08-26-2004, 03:57 PM   #314
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Any body here run the 5 port os turbo? i have one but havent run it yet just wanted to see where it stacks compared to the 3port R-spec
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Old 08-26-2004, 10:49 PM   #315
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Jlock- You must have been at a different series race in Austin, the one I was at Kyle Skidmore (AE sponsored) TQ'd and he won the A-main. I was pitting for him and his car had the #1 on it at the start of the A-main.
Kyle's NS3 was box stock and it was screaming on the top end of the straight!

With that being said Ron's motor is very fast and normally very reliable, but he did have a little motor tuning issues during the main. His pit partner Toastie started in the E-main and bumped all the way up to the A-main with his OS TR motor. It had the old style blue head so it may have been one of Ron's older TR 5 ports that had been converted to a 3 port. It was a VERY strong motor and he probably had close to 2 hours of hard continous run time on it by the end of the day. If my motor runs as hard I will be all smiles.

I will have my R-spec back from being modified some time this week and will be running it at the next SWS series race. I will let you guys know how it stacks up to the other motors. I can't wait to see how it runs.
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