Ninja Engine by GRP
04-01-2006 | 06:49 PM
#106
Tech Master
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,842
From: Norway
Then say what you mean! The only thing you say in your post is that i am completly wrong in my statement! It was you that mentioned forged induction .......... and so one, i just came up with examples that there has not been to many completly new design features. And think of all the billions of dollars that all car manufactorers use to develop better fuelconsuption, more power with less fuel....... in 4 strokes.
What i say is that Orion has a very very creative marketing department.
When i see the video and have read abaout the new WASP long time ago, many things comes to mind. When you see the slots in the crank that has been made, they are made to get more volumetric effiency as you say. Maybe so but i look it at a little different way. Orion says that gass flow will stop a little when the crankshaft closes and that it still want to move down the carb and fill up thees new slots. So, how does theese gasses in theese slots exit slots? Will not the bottom compression make a negative pressure to theese slots so gasses will have a problem leave slots? I think they will.
There is a positive effekt and that is lubrication of the rear bearign. balance factor of crank will also maybe be benefictial of thsi. Bottom compression will not because you have a higher volume of the crankcase. gassflow in the crankcase will be interrupted becasue the gasses from crankslots will have a completly diffrent velocety and come the opposite way of gasses that want to get up to the sylindersleeve.
To study gassflow and find materials that can expand in different ways regarding to temp is very very important. Palmaris racing is one that actually has very good ideas on how to improve engines of today.
Theese are jsut my point of view and i am not an enginer.
My point when comparing 4 strokes to 2 strokes is that it is even harder to develop and finetune 2 stroke engines! orion has suddenly came up with alot of "new" ideas that no one has never thought of. Italiens are best on two stroke engines and will still be best at it. I do not think that this has not been done before, espesially the angeled chanel in the crankshaft. So manufactores has tried this before, guarantied.
I only say that you do not invent the wheel twice, you can only make small adjsutments and material changes to it to make small steps forward. The longer evolution has come the moore difficult there is to improve.
What i say is that Orion has a very very creative marketing department.
When i see the video and have read abaout the new WASP long time ago, many things comes to mind. When you see the slots in the crank that has been made, they are made to get more volumetric effiency as you say. Maybe so but i look it at a little different way. Orion says that gass flow will stop a little when the crankshaft closes and that it still want to move down the carb and fill up thees new slots. So, how does theese gasses in theese slots exit slots? Will not the bottom compression make a negative pressure to theese slots so gasses will have a problem leave slots? I think they will.
There is a positive effekt and that is lubrication of the rear bearign. balance factor of crank will also maybe be benefictial of thsi. Bottom compression will not because you have a higher volume of the crankcase. gassflow in the crankcase will be interrupted becasue the gasses from crankslots will have a completly diffrent velocety and come the opposite way of gasses that want to get up to the sylindersleeve.
To study gassflow and find materials that can expand in different ways regarding to temp is very very important. Palmaris racing is one that actually has very good ideas on how to improve engines of today.
Theese are jsut my point of view and i am not an enginer.
My point when comparing 4 strokes to 2 strokes is that it is even harder to develop and finetune 2 stroke engines! orion has suddenly came up with alot of "new" ideas that no one has never thought of. Italiens are best on two stroke engines and will still be best at it. I do not think that this has not been done before, espesially the angeled chanel in the crankshaft. So manufactores has tried this before, guarantied.
I only say that you do not invent the wheel twice, you can only make small adjsutments and material changes to it to make small steps forward. The longer evolution has come the moore difficult there is to improve.
04-01-2006 | 08:48 PM
#109
Tech Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 874
From: SoCal
Originally Posted by am
Then say what you mean! The only thing you say in your post is that i am completly wrong in my statement! It was you that mentioned forged induction .......... and so one, i just came up with examples that there has not been to many completly new design features. And think of all the billions of dollars that all car manufactorers use to develop better fuelconsuption, more power with less fuel....... in 4 strokes.
What i say is that Orion has a very very creative marketing department.
When i see the video and have read abaout the new WASP long time ago, many things comes to mind. When you see the slots in the crank that has been made, they are made to get more volumetric effiency as you say. Maybe so but i look it at a little different way. Orion says that gass flow will stop a little when the crankshaft closes and that it still want to move down the carb and fill up thees new slots. So, how does theese gasses in theese slots exit slots? Will not the bottom compression make a negative pressure to theese slots so gasses will have a problem leave slots? I think they will.
There is a positive effekt and that is lubrication of the rear bearign. balance factor of crank will also maybe be benefictial of thsi. Bottom compression will not because you have a higher volume of the crankcase. gassflow in the crankcase will be interrupted becasue the gasses from crankslots will have a completly diffrent velocety and come the opposite way of gasses that want to get up to the sylindersleeve.
To study gassflow and find materials that can expand in different ways regarding to temp is very very important. Palmaris racing is one that actually has very good ideas on how to improve engines of today.
Theese are jsut my point of view and i am not an enginer.
My point when comparing 4 strokes to 2 strokes is that it is even harder to develop and finetune 2 stroke engines! orion has suddenly came up with alot of "new" ideas that no one has never thought of. Italiens are best on two stroke engines and will still be best at it. I do not think that this has not been done before, espesially the angeled chanel in the crankshaft. So manufactores has tried this before, guarantied.
I only say that you do not invent the wheel twice, you can only make small adjsutments and material changes to it to make small steps forward. The longer evolution has come the moore difficult there is to improve.
What i say is that Orion has a very very creative marketing department.
When i see the video and have read abaout the new WASP long time ago, many things comes to mind. When you see the slots in the crank that has been made, they are made to get more volumetric effiency as you say. Maybe so but i look it at a little different way. Orion says that gass flow will stop a little when the crankshaft closes and that it still want to move down the carb and fill up thees new slots. So, how does theese gasses in theese slots exit slots? Will not the bottom compression make a negative pressure to theese slots so gasses will have a problem leave slots? I think they will.
There is a positive effekt and that is lubrication of the rear bearign. balance factor of crank will also maybe be benefictial of thsi. Bottom compression will not because you have a higher volume of the crankcase. gassflow in the crankcase will be interrupted becasue the gasses from crankslots will have a completly diffrent velocety and come the opposite way of gasses that want to get up to the sylindersleeve.
To study gassflow and find materials that can expand in different ways regarding to temp is very very important. Palmaris racing is one that actually has very good ideas on how to improve engines of today.
Theese are jsut my point of view and i am not an enginer.
My point when comparing 4 strokes to 2 strokes is that it is even harder to develop and finetune 2 stroke engines! orion has suddenly came up with alot of "new" ideas that no one has never thought of. Italiens are best on two stroke engines and will still be best at it. I do not think that this has not been done before, espesially the angeled chanel in the crankshaft. So manufactores has tried this before, guarantied.
I only say that you do not invent the wheel twice, you can only make small adjsutments and material changes to it to make small steps forward. The longer evolution has come the moore difficult there is to improve.
Do you have any info on that motor? ie... HP rating, torque, bore and stroke??? Sorry guys for posting this here... This really should be over on the Orion thread... I've seen Team Mugen USA running the Ninja MR .12 and .21 onroad motors... Both look very nice!!!RC_Alan
04-02-2006 | 03:02 AM
#110
Tech Adept
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 198
From: World Wide
The all new Mario Rossi engines would be available under three brands:
-GRP engines (with Green head).
-Falcon Engines, distributed worldwide by Radiosistemi (with gold head).
-Ninja Engines, distributed worldwide by Mugen Seiki (with grey head)..
-GRP engines (with Green head).
-Falcon Engines, distributed worldwide by Radiosistemi (with gold head).
-Ninja Engines, distributed worldwide by Mugen Seiki (with grey head)..
04-02-2006 | 01:08 PM
#111
Tech Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 387
From: Sunny Blighty
@am - sorry mate, i think we are getting our wires crossed here, and going off topic. with regards to this new motor I am just as sceptical as you, once they prove the motor on track then we can take there new developments more seriously.
you couldnt be more right!!
Originally Posted by am
I only say that you do not invent the wheel twice, you can only make small adjsutments and material changes to it to make small steps forward. The longer evolution has come the moore difficult there is to improve.
04-05-2006 | 01:16 AM
#117
Tech Champion
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,792
Originally Posted by rmdhawaii
Thanks Riketsu!
After reviewing the Wasp Rev info, I think that I can safely say that the Ninja is an evolutionary change and the Wasp Rev is a revolutionary change. The Wasp Rev video (http://www.teamorion.com/faq/wasp_rev.asp) does an excellent job of explaining the engineering changes that have been made. Wow! Very impressive! Much more impressive than what the Ninja has to offer!
Hmmmmmm... Looks like I might be switching my choice for a second engine!
After reviewing the Wasp Rev info, I think that I can safely say that the Ninja is an evolutionary change and the Wasp Rev is a revolutionary change. The Wasp Rev video (http://www.teamorion.com/faq/wasp_rev.asp) does an excellent job of explaining the engineering changes that have been made. Wow! Very impressive! Much more impressive than what the Ninja has to offer!
Hmmmmmm... Looks like I might be switching my choice for a second engine!
Honestly, I'm quite impressed with the video but I'm not sure if WASP engine is more superior than JP.
04-05-2006 | 10:12 AM
#118
Quite honestly, I see alot of advancements that the wasp motor is trying to accomplish; which is good. But I don't think the motor will be as fast as any JP modify motor. I can't wait to see what JP can do with a Ninja motor . Now thats something to look forward to.
. Now thats something to look forward to.
04-05-2006 | 12:33 PM
#120
Originally Posted by Roger
But I don't think the motor will be as fast as any JP modify motor.