Thanks, thats what i thought aswell, have to say i like the 9853ss on the +4.

Btw: what about the 9901...i read/hear mixed stories about it...some consider it the perfect pipe for the +4 while others say it's flat on top/kills top end :confused:

9901ss is a killer pipe , usually runs a bit warmer as does the 2084ss as they have much more backpressure , why they get better mileage ;)

its hard to understand and even more difficult to measure the differences of the same engines that run completely different , i can have 20 engines of the same design and a few of them will not run near as good and a few of them will run exceptionally well . i do my best to match as many engines parts together as best i can , most of your real "team" engines are precision matched engines that are perfect in every way and that makes them efficient and fast . very few of the top guys use any "hand modded" engines ;)

I've heard that aswell about the real team engines, perfect matching/selecting of parts and perfect alignment of bearings etc. combined with a 100% tune can make quite the difference in power output.

Anyway, the 9901 is not flat on top then? I've heard quite a few times it's mainly a bottom end & milage pipe.

oh i have seen engines with 9901ss/41021 pipeset rippin on the track , there are many factors that can go into making an engine feel as if it is flat :nod: 9901ss usually yields decent top end output , if you want the pipe to scream you must run your engine leaner (higher temps) than most think are "ok"

Thanks for your insight Monty...appreciated :cool:

Hey guys, how does an engine behave once it starts to wear out?

The past two races my Plus 4 has been doing ok. But it seems real boggy in low speed areas when the race is about 10 minutes in. After race warm up laps it seems real good and then as the race runs on it gets more and more weak on the bottom. The temps don't fluctuate too much from what we can tell. I've been thinking I'm having clutch bog problems but not sure why it would just start all of a sudden.

I know there are many, many more factors to it. With the engine head off and the flywheel off I can spin the crank and not be able to tell where TDC is. I think I'm at the point of needing a slight pinch. Anyway let me know your opinions.

This baby has been rock solid the past two seasons till now. I run buggy and truggy at most out of town races which are 3 days long. We do these races at LEAST once a month. But by my guestimate I'm around the 10 gallon + mark. The Plus 4 has been the only engine in my buggy since I purchased it from Houston.

Thanx
Chris

I say get a new one cheapskate! :lol:

Fareal though , get new and send that one in and I will fix it up as a backup for ya

LOL. 10-4 good buddy. I'll get with you soon.

I think I have narrowed down my engine choices for my truggy to the following:
Bonito 21-7XLB
Plus 21-4BTT
Plus 21-4C 2010 ceramic team edition

I can get the 4C the cheapest by about $65 and there isn't really a big difference in price between the Bonito and the BTT... Opinions? Also, what pipe/header should I go with?

Thanks,

Shane

Houston - whats the breakin procedure you use with a new nova plus4

Keen to get your view as there are so many opinions floating around

Any one of those will be good for your truck. If you want a little extra grunt everywhere with a small sacrafic in mileage, go with the Bonito. If you want something smooth with great runtimes, either Plus 4 will do the job. The BTT with the wider exhaust ceiling will give it a little more pop on the bottom but the timing between the BTT and 4C Team is the same. The pipe that works well all around on the Bonito is the 9901/20 and the 9901/21 for the Plus 4's will be the way to go for a great all around feel with very good runtimes. I have specials on the BTT and Plus4C Teams in stock and modified trim if you or anyone else is interested.

let me find my write up :)

Will the 20 header work with the Mugen Truggy? I thought I needed to stick with the 29 or 30. Also, what does a long or short header do for me??? (I think I'm going with the Bonito) :D

+1....My BTTS still waiting....:D

Yes please....I'm interested as well. ;)

No Bunito
 

I have not tried the Bonito, but if it's similar to the Toro Team then it does not have enough torque for truggy. Unless you use harder springs and that causes premature clutch wear...I would go with the Plus-4 btt over the Bonito...the Toro team started off great, but quickly lost bottom end and never really worked as good as the old toro, so unless some major changes happened to the 7 port I would stick with a p5 or plus-4 port for longevity and bottom end.....the only 7 port that I've heard any good things about is the Fusion X7 from Monty and Jim. If I were to go with a 7 port I would only trust him....He says it has the bottom end of a p5 with the top of a 7 port....Sounds perfect for a truggy.....

The 20 header works on the 6T just not the 6. My teammate runs the Toro Nero Team with the 9901/20 in his truck and runs awesome. I run the same engine/pipe in my xray 09 spec and it works great. The toro and bonito with the 17.6mm stroke really respond well to the longer system as it allows the pulse to return later allowing better scavaging and the engine will make more all around power with better efficiency. The shorter header with the longer stroke allows the pulse to return too soon and pushes some of the fresh charge back down into the case and some of the burnt gases from the previous cycle back into the chamber causing a lean condition and also higher running temps as the engine starves for fuel. This will also cause irratic tune and lack of low end response.

The Toro Nero/Bonito in stock trim are decent but really come alive with some work. If you are looking for the engine to work it's best in truggy, go with the full race ported versions of either engine. I also have Toro Teams in stock that I can get you with the full race porting which it really responds well to and in my opinion needs the modifications to work well in truggy for less than a stock Bonito. I have both engines available in stock or modified trim if interested. Let me know fellas!

Great explanation
 

Thanks for the explanation...

I wondered why the Toro Team felt sluggish on the bottom, The longer header didn't fit in the buggy and I never needed one before. The long header makes more torque so it's really to help out the obviously sluggish Toro team and Bonito engines that for some reason can't be made from the factory to have torque, not even enough for buggy. I would still go with another engine because if you take a 400 dollar engine and still need to modify it to make power then that's some serious cash on one engine. Why not just go with an engine that has torque from the start. that would save money and be less work. I would rather have a plus-4 or p5 tuned or modded to make more rpm than to help an engine get close to making enough torque..I say Novarossi should retire the Toro and Bonito and make a 7 port that is easier to tune, and doesn't require help to make low end power....The closest I've raced and owned is the FMS, and that's being nice......Still not a factory engine.....

My point is, for 400 dollars I want torque and rpm's. Otherwise it's all about the plus-4 and p5 for my buggy....I never miss the extra 5,000 rpms anyway....I'm too busy jumping, and for that I need torque, longevity, and the ability to tune my engine perfectly, I could not do that with the factory 7 ports, from the 367, to the toro, to the team....but I will say the FMS is one badass engine....even though it's picky..I still love it...

Anyone know where i can get the new style exhaust gasket

do you need the gasket for a plus 21-4btt or bonito?

or one of the earlier models?

I hear ya but to each their own. I love the P5 and Plus 4 in both classes but I was hell bent on making the Toro and Bonito work as there is still a market for them and I sell more of those than Plus 4's once people see them run after modifications. If you get bored one day, throw it in the mail and I will set you up sweet for a good price to sample what I can do with that engine. You may have a new opinion after. I agree, $400+ and then add mods to make it work is a bit steep for some but I guess if you look at the cost of OS Speeds, it puts things back into perspective. Instead of selling it and losing your butt on it, send it in and I will work some magic for you so you can enjoy whats left on it. Unless it has like 8 gallons on it and has been run lean it's whole life to get it to do anything, then just keep it as is at that point but if you have less than 3 gallons and it has been treated well, it should be worth a look. Let me know

did you manage to find it yet? I want to kick off the break in tomorrow.

thanks

What's your email?

Hi Boss need it too for my BTTS... My email- [email protected] ...thanks

does any one knows the rear bearing size for the plus 21-4C Team?
nova has to sizes 14x25.8x6 and 14x25.4x6.

25.8mm

Novarossi Plus 21-4 BTT
 

I just opened the box and the instructions say to replace the shims under the high speed needle and below brass ball under the high speed needle but it doesnt say when? They put replacement shims in the box. Anyone have experience with these shims?

Technically you should replace them once you've loosened the HSN housing to rotate the banjo. BUT as long as you do not overtighten the housing, you move it a couple times without fear.

However, after that go ahead and replace the washers.

Unless the housing was overtightened from the factory, I've never had to replace them.

I believe he meant these...

http://www.novarossi.it/eng/news/read.php?newsid=126

Yup yup

Hey guys I have a 21+4c with about a 1/2 gallon and using the 9901ss pipe. I can't seem to get it to run consistent. It will fire right up and once you put it on the track its keeps going back and forth between lean and rich. I've tried different plugs,pipes,carbs and fuel and nothing seems to change it, also new tank and fuel lines. Anyone else having this problem. The motor is to new and has way to much compression for this to be happening. Thanks for any advise before I sell this thing. Also air sealed the carb

Also is there suppose to be silicone in the crank? Mine doesn't have any

No not on a stock one.

thats where i come in :blush:


as far as the inconsistent plus 4


not 100% positive but 99% of the time it is usually not your engine that makes the engine run inconsistent , in your case i believe it is either the engine is not run in all the way , your carburetor is wayyyyy out of balance or there is debris lodged in the high speed needle causing inconsistent fuel pressure


hope this helps

Also too short of a pressure line will cause you to start the engine with richer settings; then it will lean out as you run the tank down.

On a Nova having the idle gap set excessively high will also cause you to run the LSN too rich and when the engine gets to operating temp, it will come in with an elevated 'buzzing' or racing high-idle RPM.

Good luck.

Gday guys

I have done my best to read each page of this thread and im sure this question has been asked ;)

Im planning on purchasing a Novarossi Plus 21-4C 2010 TEAM Ceramic Edition for my losi 2.0 buggy, can someone suggest a pipe and header combo please?

From what i gather a 41021/9901 is heading down the right track?

Thanks for your help.

Cheers

Gents,

what glow plugs are people running in these engines?

I have access to the Odonnell plugs as well as the nova plugs

I have run Odonnell plugs for several years now with great success in novarossi engines. The new nova plugs are supposed to be very good but cost quite a bit more :weird: so I would save your money

cheers

what odonnell plugs do you use?

for the plus 4 and the bonito?

We use the Nova C5TGC or C6TGC plugs. Both work great, the C5TGC gives the best idle and snap / throttle response while the C6TGC will let you run a little leaner.