R/C Tech Forums - The New Werks B5 .21 Racing Engine

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Werks (Post 7182208)

Hey 871, you've started quite the debate lol! In any case quite a bit of good advise has been posted which should help quite a bit, including the re-tuning tips that Marshon posted (thank you). Some pretty basic things but first please make sure that your clutch bearings are ok, clutch shoes are not dragging on the bell or possibly hanging up on the flywheel or washers, that you don't have a broken clutch spring and that your brakes are not dragging. These issues will be most noticeable when you try to accelerate out of really slow corners and will all have the effect of bogging the motor down (which will show in really slow acceleration out of the corners).

If everything is ok with the items listed above then you have to take a look at your tune because with the B5 and 2013 the last thing that you should be mentioning is slow acceleration lol, that set up has bottom end for days! So as Marshon posted, pop the filter off, set the air gap to aprox. 0.5mm, set your HS and LS flush. Fire up the engine see how it idles. Do not adjust the idle stop screw but rather if the idle is low lean the LS a few hours blipping in between until you get a smooth steady idle. Do the reverse (richen the LS) if the idle is too high. Once you have this set toss the car on the track, run it around for a few laps and see if you need more top end. If so lean the HS a few hours (this will have the effect of leaning your LS also so now you will hear your idle go up, so richen it a bit like described above), toss the car back on the track and keep on repeating this until you get the top that you want or you are in the 200-230'ish range.

Once you have that set if your car is still sluggish off the bottom then you know the engine and your tune is not the issue because it's impossible for the engine to be rich on the LS because it would not idle and it's impossible for it to be rich on the HS because you are seeing the temps. So then you have to start looking at clutch issues, brake issues, possible driver train and/or bearing issues. Also take a look at your throttle servo just to make sure it is operating correctly (as in the initial range of travel is not slow because of stripped or damaged teeth on the gear or you have some type of motor issues going on with it) as I've had this cause issues on one of my own cars before that had me scratching my head.

Regarding old versus new carb you will find that the new carb stays more consistent (over the course of a run) and maintains a more stable idle. The differences are not night and day but they are there.Hope this helps, let me know what you come up with or if you need more help with anything.

Regards,

Ron

Thanks! I have plenty of low end that is for sure! I just ordered the 2057 for slick tracks. I have my LSN set to the richest point that it holds and does not step down to the low.....overly rich false idle...then seconds later dies.

Its not lacking low end....what I am trying to say is its loaded up for a split second WFO after a slow corner.

I guess I will lean out the HSN even more, but this will put me at over a turn in from flush HSN. As long as my temps are good is this ok?

And fuel, Ron, do you predict shorter engine life with a 9% oil versus 11%?

Thanks!

871

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjshbetz11 (Post 7182276)

As much as I would LOVE a wrap, I cant justify the price compared to a nice rattle can job(I only club race) so some decals would be nice:nod: I totally understand the production cost against the profit thing based on selling little, but I just want one or two so guess I just gotta deal with it.

Lol, just until I get some made. I get where your coming from and I'll work on it!

Regards,

Ron

Dude I swear your your the best, verry rare that you talk to a high up guy like yourself, and just get a straight up answer(witch I love and respect) I love your down to earthness that you got it's awesome. You could of responted(sp) with some BS about overhead and blah, but like you previsouly stated, your a straight from the hip kinda guy and I respect that. You got a real gold mind with this B5, I only hope it follows suit. Thank you Ron for your time, sorry for blabbin, I have been puttin a few back:nod:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Show871 (Post 7182469)

Ok, now I'm understanding better what your talking about. What you seem to he describing to me is a engine that is rich in the mid range. Traditionaly this would be easy to resolve with a 3 needle carb but we've all gone away fromthem because frankly people don't get what the 3rd needle does and they have a tendency to do more harm with them that good. In any case if I'm understanding you properly your issues lies with the point from which the fuel delivery transitions from the low speed needle to the high speed needle. A so called mid range bog. This simply means that your ratio is off (your too lean on one needle and to rich onthe other). So you need to alter the point that the low speed needle pulls completely out of the spray bar. So... the way to solve this simply try altering this point. Check the max temp that you see after a few hard laps and if it is relatively safe (low) lean the hs a few hour and at the same time lean the LS a few hours. Run a few laps and see if it is better. If not go back to the origional settings and try richening the hs a few hours and leaning the LS a couple and run again. This should give you a good idea on whic direction you need to go to resolve this.

Regarding the fuel 9% versus 11% is not realy going to make an difference as long as it's a reputable, quality fuel brand. Hope this helps!

Regards,

Ron

Ron reguarding fuel, I red you did alot of testing on fuel to get to your magical mix. What do you think of Oddonnells 30%? P.m me your thoughts so no slandering is going on. I can take your opinion. So just shoot me a P.M about this fuel if you feel comfortable doing this.

HyperB5 and Razathorn...thanks for your input. After physically looking at the reducer and carb intake I completely understand what you guys were saying:nod:. Although I was setting the idle gap properly myself I didn't fully get how the orifice at the bottom of the reducer and the carb intake were the same until examining them. That being said I do now agree that the .5mm idle gap measurement will be the same regardless of if it's measured w/ the reducer in or out. Ron said to set it w/ it in for 'trackside' ease, you guys found it easier to see it w/ the reducer removed...I get it now.

That's the cool thing about this thread and the hobby in general, we're always learning!

BTW if you're pm'ing to request Ron's tuning advice, the B5 bible, please give me your email addy so I can send the document to you, LOL!

Quote:

Originally Posted by marshon50 (Post 7184857)

+1 well said, my apologies guys

You guys got it figured out ,but also if you look at it from the bottom of the carburetor before you assemble your new engine its a clear view without taking the restrictor out. I just set the gap that way before I even put the carb in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RC-ZOMBIE (Post 7184897)

+1 well said, my apologies guys

There is really no need for apologies. Nothing was taken personally. I was just trying to let you know that even if you were to put a reducer in that was smaller than the carb air intake opening itself, you do not need remeasure your idle gap since the reducer does not sit directly on the throttle body. Even if you can't see the idle gap it will still be there. If measured from the carb itself it will always remain constant.

If it did sit directly on the throttle body, everytime you changed to a smaller restrictor, you would block the gap and have to readjust the idle. Thankfully that isn't the case lol.

This engine/pipe combo rocks! :nod:
http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/u...Picture004.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCathey (Post 7185768)

This engine/pipe combo rocks! :nod:
http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/u...Picture004.jpg

BS! That car's never seen dirt! Just look how clean and new it is! :D

Haha...yeah Joe, all I've seen is clean pics of your car. You don't have any scratches on the towers or even dust on the tires! Looks like you've got yourself a Shelf Queen LOL!!!:smile:

Shelf queen? Naaa..

Don't put it on the lid!:lol:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCathey (Post 7186835)

Shelf queen? Naaa..

Don't put it on the lid!:lol:

...or on the track!:D

My local track is mostly clay, which this time of year isn't very packed. Not abrasive at all. Not to mention I'm a bit psycho about keeping my car clean.:lol:

So back to the topic.....

Werks engines rock! :nod: