C6USA is a Novarossi based engine so it's made in Italy.

c6usa
 

thank you chris for the knowledge cause i was under the impression that it was a taiwain base engine and its good it is not tks again for your time


TY Rottie:cool:

Pickle, I would only take out the smallest shim first, and only if I was dropping from 30% nitro to 20%. Unless you have minimal compression with all shims in.

My K9 has over 4 gallons now, with unbelievable results. I'm still getting at least 8.5 minutes on high-speed tracks; 10+ on technical tracks. There's no way I can see wasting the dough for another C6/B9, when the K9 can get more power to the ground and with just as good runtime. Now if we could just get a US RB dealer somewhere to just stock a handful of parts, namely a conrod.

Hi Guys,

Are the RB piston and sleeve same as the Nova? I thought of using the N21r piston and sleeve and conrod on the C5..

Hey Chris, whats the difference between the B9 and C6 USA? Have you used both? Which 1 is stronger?

The C6 has more bottom end.:tire:

No you should not try this. It's a possibility it will work but a better possibility you will destroy it.

the OFNA Force JL 21 is the exact same engine.....nitrohouse has the rods in stock

There are two things different between the B9 and the C6USA. First the turbo button it's self has a tear drop shaved into it that points toward the exhaust port. (Part number: 01082/R) Second is a modified, balanced crankshaft that has the black coating on the crank pin. (Part Number: 01164-14B/R)


The C6USA does have more bottom end than the B9 but with the balanced crank it is quite smooth and not like an on off switch. I also feel the top end may be a little better. I have ceramic bearings on the way to put in my C6USA which should wake it up a little more. The B9 does get a little better fuel mileage.

Also the C6USA was a limited run of engines so they are pretty hard to find. If you can get one I would grab it up because it is very fast!!!

Hello Gentleman,
I have a WS7III that after 2 years and 10+ gallons needed a rebuild. I have installed a new piston, sleeve, and con rod as well as replaced all of the seals and bearings (ceramic). I have replaced the head button with a turbo one. Should I expect better performance, or did I waste my money? I run Byron’s 25% with the factory shim set up. Would I show a performance increase by removing the 1mm shim? What about going to 30% nitro and keeping the factory shim setup? I run on tracks in the Atlanta, Ga area. Any suggestions for clutch/spring setups? I am currently running a RC8 with all of the B upgrades and a M2C Racing 4 shoe clutch and .9 springs. I love this motor and the linear power delivery! I would like to get a little more snap off of the bottom. I run the 2045/192 pipe combo.

The turbo plug will give you a little more power as well as a little better fuel mileage. I like turbo plugs because the seem to last a lot longer than normal plugs. As for the shims, you do not want to remove any shims running in Atlanta. The engine is shimmed for 25% nitro right now, you can probably run 30% and also be fine just make sure you have both shims. To get a little more snap from the engine you can try several things. First try 1.0 springs instead of .9 Then you can try the 198 header instead of the 192. Finally if you still need more bottom end play with your gearing. Make sure you take your time breaking it in again and you should get many more gallons thru the engine.

RB Killer 9 and JL Force 21 the Same?
 

I've heard several people say they are the same, because they have a handfull of parts that look alike. However, looks can be deceiving. Here are the description and specs of the JL that I've found.

"The OFNA Force .21 JL Off-Road 7-Port Engine is a high performance racing engine at a price you would not expect from an engine with a chamfered and winded crank, anodized super flow rear cover plate, dual composite 8mm carb, turbo head button, and 5+2 port sleeve."

Specifications:

Hardened crank with chamfered exit port with turbo cut, and counter weight cut for windage.Anodized super flow rear cover plate.8mm carburetor with composite body to isolate heat and aluminum center fuel transfer port for strength and smooth slide action.Turbo head button. 5+2 Port Sleeve (5 transfer ports with 2 satellite ports) and new long lasting Supertanium Piston. CNC Buzz Saw cooling head. Includes JL port condoms to keep dirt out while cleaning or for storage.

Claimed HP 3.4
RPM 37000
Carb Type Slide
Constuction ABC

Type Rear Exhaust
Ports 7
Crankshaft SG
Stroke 17.6
Bore 18.35

RB Killer 9 and JL Force 21 the Same?
 

There may be some similarities, but here are the differences:

1. Most importantly, the RB K9 has a completely different sized bore and stroke listed. So having identical conrods is nearly impossible. Although I hope and wish they are the same.
RB SPECS:
Displacement: 0.21cu in (3.48cc)
Bore: 16.20mm
Stroke: 16.00mm
Intake Ports: 5+2
Crankshaft: 14mm

2. The K9's crankcase, crank and back plate are not coated, like on the JL Force.
3. The K9 comes with a tapered shaped heat sink, drilled for light-weight, while the JL has an oversized head with the buzz saw design.
4. The K9 includes a hard-coated carb restrictor insert, wrist pin, and pinch-bolt.

The two engines obviously have similarities, like so many others out there, but they are far from identical.

they are the same engine....trust me ! rods, piston/sleeve/crank/carb/case/bearings/wrist pin are all interchangeable !

If so, that's awesome. Thanks.

hey royj,

I just got the K9 from

http://www.rc-toro.com/product_info....b69f8eb36523c7

I just finished break-in, and paired it with a nova 9001. The bottom end seems nice, but the top rpm isn't there. what pipe do you use? what is your setting?

What heat range plug would you recommend? I have always used a RB #6. If there is a solid alternative I would be interested in trying. The RB plugs are so expensive! I know changing heat ranges will impact performance. It appears several guys in the form use O’Donnell T97’s.

The 97T is a medium plug which is pretty close to the #6 plug you have been using. I personally like to run a #5 plug but my altitude and humidity are a lot different than yours. Maybe try a 77T and a 97T and see if they work for you.

When it comes to tuning my WS7III with a turbo plug, will the finial settings be that much different that a regular plug? Do turbo’s typically like leaner or rich settings than regular plugs? I really appreciate you input and quick response! Thanks! I am really looking forward to getting my WS7III back in action! During the service parts funk over the past year or so I had to switch to other brands of engines. I had one “less expensive brand” go bad in one gallon! You get what you pay for. The service parts situation seems to have gotten much better! The WS7III is so easy to drive!

So Rb have a Killer 10 out that replaces the Killer 9. Any info on whats different?


http://www.neobuggy.net/modules/news...p?storyid=7631

The tune will actually be very close between the standard and turbo plug. I would just start with the carb settings where they are at now. You will most likely end up leaning it out a little bit more. The parts should be much much easier to find now, RB USA was going thru a move from NJ down to Texas. Brian that runs RB USA has hired a few guys to help him out. They have a good inventory now and can keep the shops and distributors stocked up as well.

Thanks! I am seeing a big improvement in the parts distribution chain. Nothing more frustrating that having a high dollar engine and no service parts!

Wow Chris.............you really can be a nice guy;)

Rick -I also have the same engine and its been out of service since this time last year. I'm in a Nova 21+4 for now but I sure miss my WS7III. I need a con rod, piston & sleeve but gosh their expensive. I'd like to have it re-built before the first GCS race but we'll see.

When getting a new P/S/R for the WS7 know that there are 2 different sets avail. RBD01143-WS7, and RBD01143-WS7/M. The /M part is the new sleeve that has the MES exhaust porting so it has 3 exhaust ports rather than 1. I know on the C6 the exhaust port on the case it's self has some shaving done to the case so the two MES ports are open to the port on the case. The part number on the WS7/WS9 crank cases match up so I assume they are the same but it's possible there was just a running change done to open this up. I will look at my old WS7II later today and make sure the MES sleeve will work fine in the older engines.

MiniMe
I know they are expensive. I took the approach that “for the cost of a rebuild I could buy a new engine”. Plus RB parts were nowhere to be found at the time. I bought a “brand new” engine for $225.00 and it did not last one gallon. So then, because of readily availability parts, I bought a V-Spec which I am not all that impressed with. Do the math; $160.00 for the sleeve, piston, and con rod is not so bad! Plus the V-Spec is harder to drive. And I do not think it will last as long as a RB. That is why I bought the RB to begin with.

Dang! I was I had of known that! What exactly are the benefits of the MES exhaust porting? I have seen the ‘spec” mentioned in the sales information. Would it mean more low end? Do you give some up on top? Nothing more enjoyable than my RC8 at full tilt down the back straight! It appears that with the turbo head button and using the MES sleeve you have basically a WS9? Minus the cooling head.

MES design allows the engine to have a larger exhaust port volume without the risk of the piston catching the port... For the most part a MES is just a bridged exhaust port...tho some companies will alter the timing between the 3 ports to tailor the powerand....A engine with a bigger exhaust port has the potential to breath better and make more power.....

Does the RB design result in more low end power?

You didn't mention how much fuel you've run thru the mill for your break-in. Many confuse break-in with run-in. Run-in is what's done first, and can take several tanks. There is no top-end to be found this early. The break-in process should take a gallon or more total, depending on how soon you want to change the conrod or retire the motor. I prefer to take it easy for the first 2 gallons for the longest conrod life, and 10+ gallon engine life. So I don't even try to get full top-end rpms until I run a gallon. During that time I limited my tune for a max of only 80-90% power. That's probably why I still have running 6 out of the last 7 I purchased in 10 years.

I haven't tried a 9001 with my K9. I started with the Dynamite 053 for a smooth low to midrange power, with limited top-end, while waiting for my 2045 to arrive. The first race I ran the 053, I got 10 minute run times. After two gallons total, I next tried the JP3 which had more punch and similar run-times, great for shorter-run-up-to-jump style tracks. Since then I've been running the RB 2045, which is the most driveable. It's so smooth that it took some getting used to, since it's not as explosive as the JP3. The 2045 simply puts more power to the ground instead of wheel-spinning.

Both of my needles are really close to flush, and amazingly I have barely had to touch them, regardless of the track location or outside temps.

The specs are exactly the same as the K9. It looks like RB just wanted to update the heatsink logo to reflect the new year 2010.

When they originally started to use the MES it was to help with overall power and fuel economy. In theory you can use the new P/S/R set with a turbo button to get a WS9 performance but that's if the older crankcase is milled out to open the 2 extra exhaust ports to be functional. I will look at my old WS7 later to make sure.

Thanks for all of the quick responses! This is really cool stuff. I am not the best driver around, but I love messing around with engines and car setups.
Another question: When is the crank pin on a WS7 considered worn out? The spec sheet calls out crank pin specs but what do you look for? I use digital calipers measuring in quarters (12/6 o'clock, 3/9 o'clock) around the pin in addition to visually looking for “slop” between the con rod bearing and crank pin. What is the “average” service life assuming the engine was not abused? I know with “cheaper” engines this can be a major wear/problem area. No need to rebuild engines if cranks and crank pin are worn out.

The average service life has a lot of factors in it, I can say I have a WS7 that has almost 16 gallons of fuel on it and the crank pin is still in great shape. The WS7 engines have the hard coating on the pin so they will last longer than normal. As for when it's worn out... brand new the pin should measure 5.02, once it gets down to 4.99 at any of the angles you measure it at I would say your better off replacing the engine.

Regardless of the Engine Brand...
 

Rick the best way to save the crank-pin from premature wear is to keep good air filtration, and replace the conrod as soon as the motor is fully broken-in. For me that's usually the 2-3 gallon mark, or whenever I loose mechanical pinch at TDC.

What wears the original brass conrod bushing is a combination of dirt, over-revving a tight fit, and overheating. Once that brass bushing get's too oblongated, the rod then dances on the crank-pin, instead of just snuggly rotating. It's a chain reaction because next the p/s will wear out prematurely, while the crank pin is losing diameter.

After replacing the rod you can then turn that baby loose on the track, without worrying about rod bushing and ensuing crankpin damage. Your motors will then last indefinitely, with good air filtration.

Hey Chris, could you tell me what size the rear bearings are in the shark 9 and the c6?

Shark9 and C6 engines are both 14x25.8x6 for the main bearing. If you are unable to find a replacement RB bearing they are the same as the Novarossi bearings. You can also get the Novarossi ceramic in that size if you want.

Ok, I need some help with my Killer 9. The motor has a little over 2 gallons on it, I run nitro juice 25%. I'm running it with a 7mm restrictor and the dynamite 053 pipe and a 97T glow plug. Motor has been sealed and bearings were recently changed, put a ceramic in the rear. Motor rips and is fast, but I can't get the bottom end dialed in. It feels rich on the bottom all the time and loads up quickly when idling. I keep leaining the LSN and it get's better, but never get's right before it's too lean. I do the pinch test and it idles right at 3 seconds before it starts to increase in RPMs. I'm starting to think that the 3 second test just isn't sufficient for this motor. When I'm waiting on the start of a main, I'm always concerned it's going to flood and die. When we take off, I smoke everyone out. Should I just contiune to lean on it or what?

It does sound like your LSN is too rich if it loads up while idling like that. When you are leaning the LSN are you also lowering the idle of the engine?

first thing to do is remove 1 of the head shims....... it has 4 in it, and it really only needs 3....with 4 shims the compression is very low, which is what is making the low end hard to tune...what kind of clutch are you using ? what type of vehicle and gearing ? also you may find the Jp3 to offer a much better powerband then the 053....