Team Magic G4
02-18-2007, 12:56 AM
#4142
Originally Posted by Z00M
For whoever asked about the difference between the 2601 and the 2630, I've never run the 2630 so I can't comment on it's performance. I know Patto has run the 2630, maybe he has run the 2601 and could comment?
but am very happy with the 2630.
as for round 2 , well done mike, on the win, unfortuantely i had probs with back markers that really too there toll, and some confusion left me sitting in the pits waiting for fuel
i heard my name to come in but Sammy was looking at the screeen not nowing i was sitting there, 
got the car setup nice was easy to drive, just lacked a bit of mid steering for the final as grip came up i stuck with the 38 rears. but still happy with 3rd, as it was the most laps ive done in a 10 min final. just 6 seconds off finishing on the same lap as 1-2. as for the clutch set up mike, thats what i was running all day. 1 weight and about 1.5 threads with the black 1.8 spring, and 0.45 clutch gap. think i need a bit more on the spring as i lacked a bit coming out of corners, but next time, always a next time. best lap previous was a 17.510, today in the final i strung 9 consecutive laps in mid and low 17's with a fastest lap of 17.002. so close to a 16. so im happy the car is getting better a s i set it up better now i need to drive it better. lol.
02-18-2007, 01:29 AM
#4143
Originally Posted by Z00M
With no disrespect intended, I think there is a little bit of bench racing going on here.
As far as shocks go, if you build them with medium rebound (I prefer to do it this way) you can use a lighter oil like the associated/losi 40wt. If you don't build it with the rebound you would need to set the shock up differently. The theory (and over here - in practice) is that this is similar to having a shock with different bump and rebound capabilities without having to use a heavy shock spring. I won't go into it any further but you should probably try both ways and see which one works best for you.
Cheers,
Mike.
As far as shocks go, if you build them with medium rebound (I prefer to do it this way) you can use a lighter oil like the associated/losi 40wt. If you don't build it with the rebound you would need to set the shock up differently. The theory (and over here - in practice) is that this is similar to having a shock with different bump and rebound capabilities without having to use a heavy shock spring. I won't go into it any further but you should probably try both ways and see which one works best for you.
Cheers,
Mike.
As far as shocks go I would have to disagree 100%. You want to have a consitancy with shocks. Adding some rebound or using less rebound to set up your shocks is not a tool you use for shock performance. This it what all the oils, pistons and springs are for. Now I will admit that it is very hard to set up shocks with no rebound but yet the right amount of absorbtion without any air involved. It almost has to be perfect amount of oil to do this every time. So to compensate for this "perfect amount of shock oil, manufacturers have used the hole in the cap to bleed the excess out or the best one yet on the market would be the new Serpent RCC shock absorbers. They use a foam piece inside the shock and a bleeder, however they now use a bottom cap like the Losi stadium trucks have used for years. Why go to all this trouble on making a shock when we have the standard G4S shock that has been around for over 10+ years? To get the perfect amount of bleeding WITHOUT any rebound. You just can't be as accurate on 4 shocks EVER time using rebound as a tuning tool.Though you might not feel it, it is trowing off your tweak somewhat and you will need to compensate for it somewhere. For example your steering trim or whatever.
Dude, if it works for you, awesome. But I wouldn't recommend this form of practice to a beginner. I know you couldn't recommend it to a semi-pro or pro driver, they wouldn't take your advice.
Not trying to piss anyone off ZOOM, just what I know from my 10+ years of racing and originally learning from the guys that were in the A and B mains at the Winter Nats. Yes, I do know most of those guys plus many more all over the world. Not talking about knowing who they are, but racing with them and talking with them at the track. Lots of those guys were A main drivers 10 years ago.
So for everyone that reads this, I guess go with your instinct and what works best for you. Later all!
02-18-2007, 01:31 AM
#4144
ZOOM, as far as your cluch tuning goes, you are DEAD ON!!! Hope you didn't think I was attacking you or your post bro about the shocks. Maybe I am just the hard headed type. Actually, I am pretty hard headed. 
Peace bro!
Peace bro!
02-18-2007, 01:58 AM
#4146
Well done boyz, G4S 1st & 3rd - ya cant complain about that!!!
patto - unlucky man with pit man and carby, hope ya fix the prob for next round, thou congrats on ya time bro - looks like nothing in it!!!
patto - unlucky man with pit man and carby, hope ya fix the prob for next round, thou congrats on ya time bro - looks like nothing in it!!!
Last edited by Kodak Hodak; 02-18-2007 at 02:09 AM.
02-18-2007, 02:08 AM
#4147
Originally Posted by Z00M
With no disrespect intended, I think there is a little bit of bench racing going on here.
As far as shocks go, if you build them with medium rebound (I prefer to do it this way) you can use a lighter oil like the associated/losi 40wt. If you don't build it with the rebound you would need to set the shock up differently. The theory (and over here - in practice) is that this is similar to having a shock with different bump and rebound capabilities without having to use a heavy shock spring. I won't go into it any further but you should probably try both ways and see which one works best for you.
The next thing is the clutch flyweight weights. If you put 1, 2, or no weights in the clutch, this has an impact on the holding/engaging 'strength' and timing of the clutch. While it would be like a lightened flywheel in the minutest amount, this is not why it's done. If it was then we would just lighten the flywheel. With all the weights in, the clutch will engage and stay locked. If you run with 1 weight, then your clutch will engage a little softer but also a little later, and if you run with no weights it will engage softer still and even slip a little as well as engage later. This is all assuming you don't play with the clutch gap and spring preload while changing the weights.
Today for example I started with no weights in the clutch, a 0.7mm gap and 1 thread of preload. With this combination, there was too much slip. I ended up with 1 weight, .4mm gap and 2 threads of preload to get the engagement I was looking for. So as you can see, everything affects everything.
By the way, I qualified second today and won the main event. It was a great battle with a different MTX-4 driver from last week but awesome fun. I think I won the main by about .1 of a second in the end.
So that's 2 wins from 2 starts in our championship so I couldn't be more happy with the way things are going.
Cheers,
Mike.
As far as shocks go, if you build them with medium rebound (I prefer to do it this way) you can use a lighter oil like the associated/losi 40wt. If you don't build it with the rebound you would need to set the shock up differently. The theory (and over here - in practice) is that this is similar to having a shock with different bump and rebound capabilities without having to use a heavy shock spring. I won't go into it any further but you should probably try both ways and see which one works best for you.
The next thing is the clutch flyweight weights. If you put 1, 2, or no weights in the clutch, this has an impact on the holding/engaging 'strength' and timing of the clutch. While it would be like a lightened flywheel in the minutest amount, this is not why it's done. If it was then we would just lighten the flywheel. With all the weights in, the clutch will engage and stay locked. If you run with 1 weight, then your clutch will engage a little softer but also a little later, and if you run with no weights it will engage softer still and even slip a little as well as engage later. This is all assuming you don't play with the clutch gap and spring preload while changing the weights.
Today for example I started with no weights in the clutch, a 0.7mm gap and 1 thread of preload. With this combination, there was too much slip. I ended up with 1 weight, .4mm gap and 2 threads of preload to get the engagement I was looking for. So as you can see, everything affects everything.
By the way, I qualified second today and won the main event. It was a great battle with a different MTX-4 driver from last week but awesome fun. I think I won the main by about .1 of a second in the end.
So that's 2 wins from 2 starts in our championship so I couldn't be more happy with the way things are going.
Cheers,
Mike.
Did you use the black clutch spring or red one?
02-18-2007, 02:44 AM
#4148
Originally Posted by Serpentd
Dude, if it works for you, awesome. But I wouldn't recommend this form of practice to a beginner. I know you couldn't recommend it to a semi-pro or pro driver, they wouldn't take your advice.
As for bench racing, it's theory versus practice, and again, with no disrespect, you have no experience with touring cars, by your own admission. I actually tried this same setup on a 1/8th car and it didn't yield the same results. Perhaps because of the weight of the car I'm not sure. All I was trying to get across in my post was that there could be benefits that you haven't explored yet in a touring car. I guess when the weather lets up, you can try anything you like. Like I said before, everyone has different experiences and I try not to dismiss something that I have not tried.
I took no offence and my words here are not intended to cause any offence either, just sharing my own experience. Once I set up my shocks like this, I went from having top 10 results to having the top results I have now. I can build the shocks with the same rebound every time and I am careful to get them exactly the way I want them. My car even runs straight when set on the setup board so it can't be too tweaked.
As stated before, everyone should try whatever they want to try. Seems in this case there is no single answer, so I am not saying that you SHOULD construct your shocks with rebound, just that you COULD.
Cheers,
Mike.
02-18-2007, 02:45 AM
#4149
Originally Posted by Pattojnr
ive never run the 2601, so i couldnt help there
but am very happy with the 2630.
as for round 2 , well done mike, on the win, unfortuantely i had probs with back markers that really too there toll, and some confusion left me sitting in the pits waiting for fuel i heard my name to come in but Sammy was looking at the screeen not nowing i was sitting there, got the car setup nice was easy to drive, just lacked a bit of mid steering for the final as grip came up i stuck with the 38 rears. but still happy with 3rd, as it was the most laps ive done in a 10 min final. just 6 seconds off finishing on the same lap as 1-2. as for the clutch set up mike, thats what i was running all day. 1 weight and about 1.5 threads with the black 1.8 spring, and 0.45 clutch gap.
think i need a bit more on the spring as i lacked a bit coming out of corners, but next time, always a next time. best lap previous was a 17.510, today in the final i strung 9 consecutive laps in mid and low 17's with a fastest lap of 17.002. so close to a 16. so im happy the car is getting better a s i set it up better now i need to drive it better. lol.
but am very happy with the 2630.
as for round 2 , well done mike, on the win, unfortuantely i had probs with back markers that really too there toll, and some confusion left me sitting in the pits waiting for fuel
i heard my name to come in but Sammy was looking at the screeen not nowing i was sitting there, got the car setup nice was easy to drive, just lacked a bit of mid steering for the final as grip came up i stuck with the 38 rears. but still happy with 3rd, as it was the most laps ive done in a 10 min final. just 6 seconds off finishing on the same lap as 1-2. as for the clutch set up mike, thats what i was running all day. 1 weight and about 1.5 threads with the black 1.8 spring, and 0.45 clutch gap. think i need a bit more on the spring as i lacked a bit coming out of corners, but next time, always a next time. best lap previous was a 17.510, today in the final i strung 9 consecutive laps in mid and low 17's with a fastest lap of 17.002. so close to a 16. so im happy the car is getting better a s i set it up better now i need to drive it better. lol.
02-18-2007, 02:55 AM
#4152
Originally Posted by Z00M
I actually got this tip from 4 time BRCA 200mm touring car champion(2 on rubber and 2 on foam all in consecutive years) so I guess some pro's do use it.
As for bench racing, it's theory versus practice, and again, with no disrespect, you have no experience with touring cars, by your own admission. I actually tried this same setup on a 1/8th car and it didn't yield the same results. Perhaps because of the weight of the car I'm not sure. All I was trying to get across in my post was that there could be benefits that you haven't explored yet in a touring car. I guess when the weather lets up, you can try anything you like. Like I said before, everyone has different experiences and I try not to dismiss something that I have not tried.
I took no offence and my words here are not intended to cause any offence either, just sharing my own experience. Once I set up my shocks like this, I went from having top 10 results to having the top results I have now. I can build the shocks with the same rebound every time and I am careful to get them exactly the way I want them. My car even runs straight when set on the setup board so it can't be too tweaked.
As stated before, everyone should try whatever they want to try. Seems in this case there is no single answer, so I am not saying that you SHOULD construct your shocks with rebound, just that you COULD.
Cheers,
Mike.
As for bench racing, it's theory versus practice, and again, with no disrespect, you have no experience with touring cars, by your own admission. I actually tried this same setup on a 1/8th car and it didn't yield the same results. Perhaps because of the weight of the car I'm not sure. All I was trying to get across in my post was that there could be benefits that you haven't explored yet in a touring car. I guess when the weather lets up, you can try anything you like. Like I said before, everyone has different experiences and I try not to dismiss something that I have not tried.
I took no offence and my words here are not intended to cause any offence either, just sharing my own experience. Once I set up my shocks like this, I went from having top 10 results to having the top results I have now. I can build the shocks with the same rebound every time and I am careful to get them exactly the way I want them. My car even runs straight when set on the setup board so it can't be too tweaked.
As stated before, everyone should try whatever they want to try. Seems in this case there is no single answer, so I am not saying that you SHOULD construct your shocks with rebound, just that you COULD.
Cheers,
Mike.
Thanks dude.
02-18-2007, 03:33 AM
#4153
Originally Posted by Z00M
I used the black spring. This has become my favourite as it seems very versatile.
02-18-2007, 07:22 AM
#4154
Tech Master
i dont really understand about the shock rebound... what it suppose to act .
can someone explain it in a more simple way? or probably a video?
i thought shock should return to its normal position as fast as it can.
.can someone explain it in a more simple way? or probably a video?
i thought shock should return to its normal position as fast as it can.
02-18-2007, 09:06 AM
#4155
Originally Posted by ickvanovs
i dont really understand about the shock rebound... what it suppose to act .
can someone explain it in a more simple way? or probably a video?
i thought shock should return to its normal position as fast as it can.
.can someone explain it in a more simple way? or probably a video?
i thought shock should return to its normal position as fast as it can.