Team Associated 1/8 scale Truggy Info and Tips
07-03-2012, 02:21 PM
#3796
That same rack in my truggy generated about 8 degrees of bumpsteer... in AND out... throughout the range of front suspension travel. I pulled it in favor of the rack that gives a long steering link, and mounts to the rack pivot point. My steering rods are now parallel at static rideheight... and my truggy was more predictable after doing so.
BUT, i didnt use the offset ballstuds, nor have i gone BACK to that rack in an attempt to see its effect after months of wheeltime/setup develpment in its current position. It feels great and i havent felt a need for change. Apparently though... it works... or the pros wouldnt be using it.
07-03-2012, 02:35 PM
#3797
Im aware of the color and numerical differences, but it would be much easier if the 14's, 16's, and 18's were color coordinated, and CLEARLY marked FRONT (F) and REAR (R), and with keyed orientation in the caster block. As it stands now... not everyone can easily identify the proper orientation (as the pill fits either way in the caster block).
Each pill has a 4 digit number... the first two indicate caster angle (14, 16, or 18). The last two digits... i have no idea what they refer to. In the pills i have, the last two digits are 01 or 02... regardless of color (FRONT or REAR orientation) or caster angle (hole orientation, as you describe). I just want something a little bit easier for my old eyes to spy...
Each pill has a 4 digit number... the first two indicate caster angle (14, 16, or 18). The last two digits... i have no idea what they refer to. In the pills i have, the last two digits are 01 or 02... regardless of color (FRONT or REAR orientation) or caster angle (hole orientation, as you describe). I just want something a little bit easier for my old eyes to spy...
07-03-2012, 02:46 PM
#3798
Not true on the Swing vs Bellcrank. Bellcrank is the most aggressive steering setting.
Swing gets more aggressive from rear(least aggressive) to front(more aggressive) with the front not being as aggressive as using a bellcrank. At same time makes for more stable steering as well.
This video should help you understand more : www.youtube.com/watch?v=5spUjQM_ykc
Swing gets more aggressive from rear(least aggressive) to front(more aggressive) with the front not being as aggressive as using a bellcrank. At same time makes for more stable steering as well.
This video should help you understand more : www.youtube.com/watch?v=5spUjQM_ykc
There some terms I think have confused me....Swing rack, Bell Crank (Setup sheet term), Steering Rack (Setup sheet term), Drag Link (Part Name in catalog) .....
I thought they got rid of the rack and came up with the new improved Drag link from all the testing. I guess they tested some more and found it best to have the options which makes sense. I might just stay with the drag link and flip the Rack the bird.....
j/k
07-03-2012, 03:14 PM
#3799
From my experience, a general rule for steering rod angle (rack to knuckle) is for it to be parallel to the lower control arm at static ride height. This generates the least amount of bumpsteer. Raising or lowering either the inner or outer position, and changing that angle, can add bump in... or out.
That same rack in my truggy generated about 8 degrees of bumpsteer... in AND out... throughout the range of front suspension travel. I pulled it in favor of the rack that gives a long steering link, and mounts to the rack pivot point. My steering rods are now parallel at static rideheight... and my truggy was more predictable after doing so.
BUT, i didnt use the offset ballstuds, nor have i gone BACK to that rack in an attempt to see its effect after months of wheeltime/setup develpment in its current position. It feels great and i havent felt a need for change. Apparently though... it works... or the pros wouldnt be using it.
That same rack in my truggy generated about 8 degrees of bumpsteer... in AND out... throughout the range of front suspension travel. I pulled it in favor of the rack that gives a long steering link, and mounts to the rack pivot point. My steering rods are now parallel at static rideheight... and my truggy was more predictable after doing so.
BUT, i didnt use the offset ballstuds, nor have i gone BACK to that rack in an attempt to see its effect after months of wheeltime/setup develpment in its current position. It feels great and i havent felt a need for change. Apparently though... it works... or the pros wouldnt be using it.
Ok thanks i get what your saying . To me using the stock ball link that goes onto the knuckles will make the rack and knuckle parrell by looking at it to me. So all i will need is some long screws to go though the holes on the rack and the bellcrank il likely use the middle hole on it. I guess the only downside is that it wont give you the same amount of steering throw compared to the stock CE rack so you have to make sure its equal more on both sides.
I also wish there was a R, L to see better on the caster inserts and im young lol.
07-03-2012, 03:24 PM
#3800
No need for that really... but that post does redefine how easily one could swap these little parts that make a large difference in handling. Great info...
Personally, i would be content with buying separate 14, 16, 18 degree caster blocks... although i would HATE it when it came to buying aluminum blocks.
Regardless... im just glad to see more truggy interest. The BTH race at Flowood MS seems to have a decent turnout for truggy... more nitro than electric... but the turnout is good nontheless. It would be nice to see 1/8 bug n trug rule the roost as 1/10 bug and truck once did...
Personally, i would be content with buying separate 14, 16, 18 degree caster blocks... although i would HATE it when it came to buying aluminum blocks.
Regardless... im just glad to see more truggy interest. The BTH race at Flowood MS seems to have a decent turnout for truggy... more nitro than electric... but the turnout is good nontheless. It would be nice to see 1/8 bug n trug rule the roost as 1/10 bug and truck once did...
07-03-2012, 05:10 PM
#3802
Tech Regular
iTrader: (7)
Steering Rack
Trying to get my thick head head around the "new" old steering rack update to the CE truggies. About 12-18mths ago the big improvment to the FT was to run the short steering rack/bell crank mod. This gave the FT a lot more turn in and more precise steering.IMO this made a good truggy a lot better to drive.
CE comes out with the bell crank as standard and know the mod to do is go back to the longer steering rack? Does the new front hubs that are going to be released change the geometry compaired to the originals. Is the steering link mount longer/shorter that the originals.
CE comes out with the bell crank as standard and know the mod to do is go back to the longer steering rack? Does the new front hubs that are going to be released change the geometry compaired to the originals. Is the steering link mount longer/shorter that the originals.
07-03-2012, 05:31 PM
#3804
I would leave the stock CE link in the truck. The reason for using the old link in the buggy is to calm the car down a little. I think the truck needs to be a little more aggressive. I really am thinking on going to the new b plate on the truck. The truggy I raced before the CE was a mbx6t. The 6t had more steering and is more aggressive than the rc8t IMO.
07-03-2012, 05:55 PM
#3805
Interesting you put it like that Tony. Purely for discussion sake... aggressive meaning?
I was looking for more steering in my 8t after i drove a 6t. What i realized was i wasnt lacking steering, as i was lacking that planted/responsive feeling the front of the 6t had. The rear of the 6t felt like it was along for the ride but wasnt loose... and the front end wasnt trying to screw into the corner... but you always knew where it was... even in continuous rhythm sections. The front end of that 6t is awesome...
My 8t with the low B plate was a handful of turn in as soon as i lifted the throttle... even if it was just to keep the front end down coming onto the straight. I got it to work with stiffer front springs (bronze) and out on the tower... and low on the inner rear camber link... but it wasnt faster under the same conditions. Just curious of another 8t drivers opinion...
I was looking for more steering in my 8t after i drove a 6t. What i realized was i wasnt lacking steering, as i was lacking that planted/responsive feeling the front of the 6t had. The rear of the 6t felt like it was along for the ride but wasnt loose... and the front end wasnt trying to screw into the corner... but you always knew where it was... even in continuous rhythm sections. The front end of that 6t is awesome...
My 8t with the low B plate was a handful of turn in as soon as i lifted the throttle... even if it was just to keep the front end down coming onto the straight. I got it to work with stiffer front springs (bronze) and out on the tower... and low on the inner rear camber link... but it wasnt faster under the same conditions. Just curious of another 8t drivers opinion...
07-03-2012, 06:14 PM
#3807
R/C Tech Elite Member
07-03-2012, 07:24 PM
#3808
The new style caster blocks (at least the prototypes) are machined with 16 degrees of caster, no pills. The kingpins are inclined obviously but now inline with each other. So changes such as this along with lower roll center plates we've been testing change the handling of the truck, hence the reason some of us have gone back to the swing rack.
Keep in mind any change you make to one end has the adverse effect on the opposite end... meaning if the front end is over aggressive, the rear end is going to be lazy and prone to break loose.
The longer swing rack makes the steering more predictable imo, yet still has 3 option holes for the tierods(rear least aggressive to forward most aggressive).
Regardless of all that, the best single improvement you can make is proper setup of the entire steering linkage, making sure it is square at neutral and full throw is actually being achieved. If your end points are more than 10% different from left to right, something is wrong and all these other mods are not going to help....
As i always say, it is personal preference on setup. Just cause you see something on Ryan's truck doesn't mean you have to have it, but it may be worth trying to see for yourself if it feels better or is easier for you to drive...
They get paid to do this, and are constantly testing ways to make the cars better. Sometimes there is a step forward, sometimes backward. But the stuff that is an absolute improvement usually finds it's way to the masses.
07-03-2012, 09:02 PM
#3810
I would venture to say that Gunnar and Ryan M ran the same set-up. At the warm-up race they did.