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Old 11-28-2005, 11:42 PM   #76
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Trinity isn't to blame for the inconsistantcy in the stock motors they just import them they dont manufactor them.
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Old 11-28-2005, 11:57 PM   #77
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i would also assume (dangerous word) that this would be a function of machine winding when it comes to consistency. i believe they already have a handwound stock class called arcor(?).
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Old 11-29-2005, 12:06 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by gee-dub
i would also assume (dangerous word) that this would be a function of machine winding when it comes to consistency. i believe they already have a handwound stock class called arcor(?).

Arcor is a sanctioning body not a class,their equivelent to the stock class is the 21T limited class,which is wayyy better than stock class cause you only have one motor to deal with, be it's not a great motor, but neither are the stock motors.
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Old 11-29-2005, 12:40 AM   #79
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Nothing mass produced is anywhere near perfect (look at FoMoCo). Even mod motors, which are much more hand-built than our stockers, are very inconsistent. These motors are VERY reliant on the magnetic field created within the motor and there's just too many darn variables that can affect it for anyone to ever be able to make consistent electric motors. I can't imagine you could ever produce two magnets that were exactly the same.

No motor tuning tips, tricks, "black book" ideas and concepts, or dyno results, can ever make a bad stock motor good. It's not Trinity's (or anyone else's) fault.
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Old 11-29-2005, 12:48 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Waldron
Nothing mass produced is anywhere near perfect (look at FoMoCo). Even mod motors, which are much more hand-built than our stockers, are very inconsistent. These motors are VERY reliant on the magnetic field created within the motor and there's just too many darn variables that can affect it for anyone to ever be able to make consistent electric motors. I can't imagine you could ever produce two magnets that were exactly the same.

No motor tuning tips, tricks, "black book" ideas and concepts, or dyno results, can ever make a bad stock motor good. It's not Trinity's (or anyone else's) fault.
It also helps drive the economy of R/C. If all like parts (batteries and motors) were created equal, we wouldn't have much of a need for matchers, and a reduced need for motor tuners. Not that it's a good thing for racers, since it drives up the cost of being competitive, but it's good for guys that tune motors and match batteries. :-D

If there is so much potential difference in a motor based on how it's wound (on the machine), is it worth investigating whether or not it's possible to create a winding process that more consistently produces the motors at the highest quality? I know nothing of the machine winding process, or where they place their emphasis, but I don't get the impression it's on doing whatever it is that makes the fast motors fast. It's probably based more on creating the most motors for the least cost. The benefits of hand winding reflect this assumption, but that's problematic in stock.

Is the tooling required for machine winding why companies choose to import rather than wind their own motors?
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Old 11-29-2005, 12:58 AM   #81
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Armature winding probably has the biggest effect on how fast the motor is going to be out of any variable in an electric motor (an expertly hand-wound stocker would destroy one off the assembly line)..but I don't think that's the huge reason for the discrepency between stock motors in the same batch. I honestly think it's got just as much to do with machining tolerances for the endbells, cans, and brush hoods, the armature blank itself, and the materials used to make very important motor guts like magnets and comms. Try as you might, none of that stuff is going to be anywhere close to perfect every time.

I won't pretend I know the numbers as far as why it may or may not be cheaper to do what kind of assembly in which country..haha.
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Old 11-29-2005, 02:42 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper1
Arcor is a sanctioning body not a class,their equivelent to the stock class is the 21T limited class,which is wayyy better than stock class cause you only have one motor to deal with, be it's not a great motor, but neither are the stock motors.
just for clarification, i was actually referring to the arcor 19t hand wound motor rules. there was an internet 'tusstle' on the c1/c2 vs. arcor arms about 2 years ago. one of the big points the pro-arcor side made was the consistency from motor to motor.

i'm just waiting for my trinity bl motor to go with a gtb/neo system at the moment.
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Old 12-01-2005, 03:06 PM   #83
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Is this motor ROAR legal?
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Old 12-01-2005, 03:22 PM   #84
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It says on the package (right above the motor) something about ROAR/ARCOR legal.
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Old 12-01-2005, 07:29 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Waldron
I can't imagine you could ever produce two magnets that were exactly the same.
I totally agree, in the wet magnet process they use a paiste like grey material, that is pressed into a mold. And when pressed this paiste's domains align and waalaaa!! You have a magnet afer it dries. After that the domains cannot be re-aligned or reset like a non-permanent magnet. This is the luck of the draw sort of thing. The only way possible is to dis-align these domains is to melt the magnet to a liquid form.

This is all coming from a 13 year old science geek though!
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Old 12-01-2005, 07:41 PM   #86
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Not bad...

Age doesn't have anything to do with it. You're discussing this with a 19 year old science geek
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Old 12-02-2005, 04:05 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammin'Trey
I totally agree, in the wet magnet process they use a paiste like grey material, that is pressed into a mold. And when pressed this paiste's domains align and waalaaa!! You have a magnet afer it dries. After that the domains cannot be re-aligned or reset like a non-permanent magnet. This is the luck of the draw sort of thing. The only way possible is to dis-align these domains is to melt the magnet to a liquid form.

This is all coming from a 13 year old science geek though!
Well, they can get them pretty damn close.

And they are not just pressed and left to dry. The magnets are formed and then they are put into a machine that basically "Zapps" them, giving them their magnetic field. I personally would be surprised if the magnets used in motors differed by more than 5-10% in strenght, probably less. This is new motors (and all of they same type).

You would be surprised to know this. These magnets (although i am not 100% sure) are AlNiCo magnets. They are comprised of Aluminum, Nickel, and Cobalt, all of witch are NON-ferrous materials, meaning that in their natural states, none of them are magnetic. But when mixed in the correct proportions and zapped, they produce rather strong permanent magnets. Just a peice of trivia.........
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Old 12-02-2005, 11:30 AM   #88
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Okay, enough of the Science lessons, when can I get my hands on one of these new beasts?
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Old 12-02-2005, 11:42 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by CypressMidWest
Okay, enough of the Science lessons, when can I get my hands on one of these new beasts?
I agree, It's just a stock motor and it's new! I want one and has anyone see it being used yet. Trinity Rocks! (that was gay)
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Old 12-02-2005, 09:23 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PitCrew
Well, they can get them pretty damn close.

And they are not just pressed and left to dry. The magnets are formed and then they are put into a machine that basically "Zapps" them, giving them their magnetic field. I personally would be surprised if the magnets used in motors differed by more than 5-10% in strenght, probably less. This is new motors (and all of they same type).

You would be surprised to know this. These magnets (although i am not 100% sure) are AlNiCo magnets. They are comprised of Aluminum, Nickel, and Cobalt, all of witch are NON-ferrous materials, meaning that in their natural states, none of them are magnetic. But when mixed in the correct proportions and zapped, they produce rather strong permanent magnets. Just a peice of trivia.........
I knew it didn't sound right, but from what I can tell they are niodineum in mod or precious earth magnets. And in stock they are AlNiCo. Thanks for correcting me Pitcrew.
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