Change carpet onroad in the U.S.?
10-31-2015, 03:44 PM
#740
While I have been out of the game for a while, I love that this debate still goes strong. I think there are some simple solutions but sometimes racers are their own worst enemy. TC needs to slow down, faster cars does not mean better RACING! I would like to see someone go out at their local carpet track with a 27t cobalt a 19t KD and have a couple brushless motors to compare it to, 17.5/21.5/25.5. If current 25.5 are the same as stock 27t brushless that is the new stock class, if a 19t is equal to 17.5 etc. (that is your new intermediate class) and then you have open mod.(because 12th scale is 1 cell might have to change motors maybe 21.5 is stock etc)and then maybe one "other class" wgt/rcgt/F1 etc. When race at a local or big event you can run 2 TC classes 25.5 and 17.5 or 17.5 and open mod, but not 25.5 and mod and the same rules apply for 12th scale. Call them Stock/Pro Stock and Open Mod, no one likes the term novice. Stock motors would be locked endbell and blinky mode. Some guys might have to get used to being in the back of the pack, work hard and get better, do not create another class to try and get away from the fast guys!!!
My 2 cents
My 2 cents
10-31-2015, 07:32 PM
#741
Tech Fanatic
10-31-2015, 08:06 PM
#742
Tech Master
iTrader: (2)
As DARKSIDE mentiined you start messing with classes or rules, guys will shelf/sell/throwaway their cars and do something else.
I used to run 27t Brushed motors, played all the games, was very competitive.. At local venues I can do well running 17.5, when I go to a more competitive track, my $250 car has a hard time keeping up with $600-1000 cars. Do I cry and whine about it. No, I run VTA/USGT where I am competitive again. I dont care about mod, I am budget minded and cannot afford the time and money on the upkeep of a mod car.
I would rather see different types of races. Like me being a family man, sometimes I might only have 2-3 hours to race. Would be interested to do something like to show up at a race, run 3-4 races a class, then go home. The race director would keep a live list of how everyone did and you could see the results at the end of the day.. No no real qualifying Unless everybody showed up at once.
Bigger races of course do it the traditional way.
I used to run 27t Brushed motors, played all the games, was very competitive.. At local venues I can do well running 17.5, when I go to a more competitive track, my $250 car has a hard time keeping up with $600-1000 cars. Do I cry and whine about it. No, I run VTA/USGT where I am competitive again. I dont care about mod, I am budget minded and cannot afford the time and money on the upkeep of a mod car.
I would rather see different types of races. Like me being a family man, sometimes I might only have 2-3 hours to race. Would be interested to do something like to show up at a race, run 3-4 races a class, then go home. The race director would keep a live list of how everyone did and you could see the results at the end of the day.. No no real qualifying Unless everybody showed up at once.
Bigger races of course do it the traditional way.
10-31-2015, 10:17 PM
#743
We are all wrong. I think I know why.
New racers, rookies, novice, whatever you want to call them don't want to go slow, even if they would be more under control. What kind of cars do newbies buy? The fun ones! A big 1/8 E-buggy, Slash or E-Revo with the coke can motor and power for days. They blast back and forth in the street behind their house and scare little old ladies, and they have fun with it. Speed is FUN. Power is FUN. Taking all the power away because you are a great racer with many years experience racing RC and you just KNOW the plebes in the C-main can't fully handle it is the antithesis of fun. Even if you're right, its still WRONG.
There must be so many people on here who have forgotten the simple joy of watching your car ACCELERATE on command. Those who haven't pulled the trigger on a true rocket for so long they forgot what going as fast as your car was built to go looks like except on Youtube. I think everybody should be issued a 4 turn Mod and be forced to bolt it up for one practice session, so you can feel the anticipation and a little fear as you round the sweeper onto the back straight and pull that trigger to the stop. I don't care for a second if you can 'handle' it or not, you'll have fun. Much more fun than you would have had if you were driving a car that was so gutless you had the throttle pinned everywhere except the 180 at the end of the straight.
Side note here: The reason those cars in the linked video from 2005 are slower (barely) than 17.5 stock today is not because of power! In 2005 rubber tire touring was in its infancy, today we have an extra decade of effort that has made us not only faster but much more in control than we were. You may also notice that those brushed motor machines had admirable low-end torque compared to what we have today. We may be a bit faster on the top end but the grunt of brushed racing was something... then again, if you geared them up to gain a little top end they tended to burn to a crisp.
New racers, rookies, novice, whatever you want to call them don't want to go slow, even if they would be more under control. What kind of cars do newbies buy? The fun ones! A big 1/8 E-buggy, Slash or E-Revo with the coke can motor and power for days. They blast back and forth in the street behind their house and scare little old ladies, and they have fun with it. Speed is FUN. Power is FUN. Taking all the power away because you are a great racer with many years experience racing RC and you just KNOW the plebes in the C-main can't fully handle it is the antithesis of fun. Even if you're right, its still WRONG.
There must be so many people on here who have forgotten the simple joy of watching your car ACCELERATE on command. Those who haven't pulled the trigger on a true rocket for so long they forgot what going as fast as your car was built to go looks like except on Youtube. I think everybody should be issued a 4 turn Mod and be forced to bolt it up for one practice session, so you can feel the anticipation and a little fear as you round the sweeper onto the back straight and pull that trigger to the stop. I don't care for a second if you can 'handle' it or not, you'll have fun. Much more fun than you would have had if you were driving a car that was so gutless you had the throttle pinned everywhere except the 180 at the end of the straight.
Side note here: The reason those cars in the linked video from 2005 are slower (barely) than 17.5 stock today is not because of power! In 2005 rubber tire touring was in its infancy, today we have an extra decade of effort that has made us not only faster but much more in control than we were. You may also notice that those brushed motor machines had admirable low-end torque compared to what we have today. We may be a bit faster on the top end but the grunt of brushed racing was something... then again, if you geared them up to gain a little top end they tended to burn to a crisp.
11-01-2015, 01:56 AM
#744
Somebody give this man a cookie !
11-01-2015, 04:00 AM
#745
Sorry D.R. I do not agree with those cars being marginally slower. Straight-line speed is considerably slower, in conjunction with less grippy tires in corners; hence my comment about being similar to USGT. Granted that track is larger than average (anyone know the dimensions of the IIC?), the leaders were clipping off mid 13's.
Again, it's not just about new blood entering the sport (which is not many). They only know what they see, and I'd contend that a new person watching a 12th or TC Mod go around a carpet track has rarely a thought of wanting to start out in one of those classes. It's also about making the heats/mains deeper and having more people with similar ability in their respective mains which makes the racing closer which the reduced speed brings.
I've ran a 4.5 in my TC, on a 200' asphalt track, it is fun! I plan to do it more next summer. Not so much on a 90' carpet track.
Again, it's not just about new blood entering the sport (which is not many). They only know what they see, and I'd contend that a new person watching a 12th or TC Mod go around a carpet track has rarely a thought of wanting to start out in one of those classes. It's also about making the heats/mains deeper and having more people with similar ability in their respective mains which makes the racing closer which the reduced speed brings.
I've ran a 4.5 in my TC, on a 200' asphalt track, it is fun! I plan to do it more next summer. Not so much on a 90' carpet track.
11-01-2015, 04:05 AM
#746
Anyone have lap times from last years IIC for VTA and USGT to compare with the mid 13's from that Stock TC?
11-01-2015, 05:18 AM
#748
The very topic of this is tough... its "change carpet in the US". The first thing we have to acknowledge is the US has less of a Circuit racing following than the rest of the world, so it would need to be a world change not a US change.
The root of the lack of growth in the US of RC racing in general I could write a book on, but it boils down to our instant gratification society. This hobby is complex and has a large learning curve. Mix in the funds, time, and dedication required to really enjoy it.... Now throw in on road cars which require significant setup knowledge no way. The typical american wants to build a car drop it on the track and win. This simply does not happen in RC racing, but can in the "virtual" world on their video game console(phone, xbox, PSx, tablet, etc) by just spending more money. There's no "hand/mechanical work" or deep real world knowledge of suspension, geometry, etc required play video games. I've seen it time and time again in other "hobby" type environments.
Tracks, rules, etc are not going to change it. This is a hobby not a multi billion $ entertainment venue. We are a community of hobby enthusiast, well some. It takes a village and until we realize the vendors and manufactures are not interested in racing and only interested in selling us the latest and greatest things will continue the way they are.
The only way thing will grow again is for each on of us to find some parents and interested kids to join the hobby and mentor. It all boils back to my original point and that is society... A vicious circle.
The root of the lack of growth in the US of RC racing in general I could write a book on, but it boils down to our instant gratification society. This hobby is complex and has a large learning curve. Mix in the funds, time, and dedication required to really enjoy it.... Now throw in on road cars which require significant setup knowledge no way. The typical american wants to build a car drop it on the track and win. This simply does not happen in RC racing, but can in the "virtual" world on their video game console(phone, xbox, PSx, tablet, etc) by just spending more money. There's no "hand/mechanical work" or deep real world knowledge of suspension, geometry, etc required play video games. I've seen it time and time again in other "hobby" type environments.
Tracks, rules, etc are not going to change it. This is a hobby not a multi billion $ entertainment venue. We are a community of hobby enthusiast, well some. It takes a village and until we realize the vendors and manufactures are not interested in racing and only interested in selling us the latest and greatest things will continue the way they are.
The only way thing will grow again is for each on of us to find some parents and interested kids to join the hobby and mentor. It all boils back to my original point and that is society... A vicious circle.
11-01-2015, 06:38 AM
#749
Tech Regular
I raced our Holloween Howler this weekend. I asked around to see what people had to say about the classes in New England. I race at RC Excitement in MASS.
We ran 17.5 stock for both 1/12 and sedan, 13.5 WGT and Vaterra was the casual class.
I raced 1/12th. It seems in CT, they took a shot at 21.5 and 13.5 1/12th scale and it bombed. They are now running 17.5 only, just like we are. Based on what we had at the race I'm going to say 17.5 1/12 is fine just as it is. The top 5 average laps were within 1 second from the front of the A main to the back of the B main. everyone in the B main also had a clean run, other than 1 or 2 scuffs on the boards, but NO hits.
Most that I asked thought that 1S and 2S classes are to different to use a single motor for both. Most also said 21.5 sedan was a good idea. The most interesting trend was that most are looking forward to some type of 1S Spec GT/WGT-Rubber 17.5 or whatever we are calling it this week. It just looks like something we could recommend to a friend who only has SCT experience, yet it's cool enough that we all want one. Nobody wants to be the first to buy one this week though, as RC racers are known to jump to the next best class before our last one fills in. At least a WGT chassis has the real WGT 13.5 to fall back on. no need to throw the whole car in the junk drawer if your friends move on. (that is my issue with the Vaterrera class, even though there was some good racing in the class.)
Few seemed ready to jump on the USGT/VTA classes with their noob friends, even though it seems like a good class and has a following in CT. If you need a used $400 Xray roller to make the A main, it's not a noob friendly option. (unless you have a used Xray for sale,LOL) A brand new Spec GT-R roller with body is $275~$325 ish.
We ran 17.5 stock for both 1/12 and sedan, 13.5 WGT and Vaterra was the casual class.
I raced 1/12th. It seems in CT, they took a shot at 21.5 and 13.5 1/12th scale and it bombed. They are now running 17.5 only, just like we are. Based on what we had at the race I'm going to say 17.5 1/12 is fine just as it is. The top 5 average laps were within 1 second from the front of the A main to the back of the B main. everyone in the B main also had a clean run, other than 1 or 2 scuffs on the boards, but NO hits.
Most that I asked thought that 1S and 2S classes are to different to use a single motor for both. Most also said 21.5 sedan was a good idea. The most interesting trend was that most are looking forward to some type of 1S Spec GT/WGT-Rubber 17.5 or whatever we are calling it this week. It just looks like something we could recommend to a friend who only has SCT experience, yet it's cool enough that we all want one. Nobody wants to be the first to buy one this week though, as RC racers are known to jump to the next best class before our last one fills in. At least a WGT chassis has the real WGT 13.5 to fall back on. no need to throw the whole car in the junk drawer if your friends move on. (that is my issue with the Vaterrera class, even though there was some good racing in the class.)
Few seemed ready to jump on the USGT/VTA classes with their noob friends, even though it seems like a good class and has a following in CT. If you need a used $400 Xray roller to make the A main, it's not a noob friendly option. (unless you have a used Xray for sale,LOL) A brand new Spec GT-R roller with body is $275~$325 ish.
Last edited by Eddie_E; 11-01-2015 at 07:31 AM.