Change carpet onroad in the U.S.?
11-02-2015, 10:57 AM
#766
As someone else pointed out way earlier in the thread, they tried going from 4 cell to 6cell indoor and realized it was stupid fast and went back to 4cell. It's easier to see the problem when the change is dramatic, in the past decade the speeds have been increasing more slowly so it was hard to put a finger on it and say "no".
Not sure why some think it's crazy to have different rules for the track type and size when they did just that with the 4 & 6 cell / carpet & asphalt back in the day.
Not sure why some think it's crazy to have different rules for the track type and size when they did just that with the 4 & 6 cell / carpet & asphalt back in the day.
11-02-2015, 11:20 AM
#767
so what do all of these 17.5 guys do with the $100's and some cases $1000's of dollars in motors?....and don't forget, 17.5 TC is the largest class almost anywhere and event....
so where does this leave them?...
what I see is everyone thinks 17.5 TC is to fast....correct?...to fast for who?....most?...I find that hard to believe if its so fast and out of control, why so many people run it?...even with slower classes available?...
why run 17.5 TC if its to fast?...cause racers simply want to....need for speed. Why is that so hard to understand. Should they be running GT 21.5 or VTA 25.5?...some yes. But if they feel they can hang on, let them. Why try to create yet another class so only a few can enjoy. If you think 17.5 TC is to fast, run GT....build the class up with the other guys at your track/club and have a good time....
What am I missing?....17.5 isn't stock?...so what....its a class of the majority that race onroad. And you want to mess with that. Really? I might understand if it was a failing class or just not offered in your area...but seriously where and what event you been to that didn't have 17.5 TC?....
BTW...I hate 17.5 TC...but I also understand that its popular enough to keep the doors open.
Fix your track, bring in new racers to already existing classes that have proven to appeal to the masses. Put on a trophy race just for beginners and have prizes and trophies. Do something other than complaining about what's wrong in a public forum. If I was new and thinking about onroad, reading this would suck all the fun out of it. Support your track/hobby by building not tearing down.
Im out...see ya in Carolina
so where does this leave them?...
what I see is everyone thinks 17.5 TC is to fast....correct?...to fast for who?....most?...I find that hard to believe if its so fast and out of control, why so many people run it?...even with slower classes available?...
why run 17.5 TC if its to fast?...cause racers simply want to....need for speed. Why is that so hard to understand. Should they be running GT 21.5 or VTA 25.5?...some yes. But if they feel they can hang on, let them. Why try to create yet another class so only a few can enjoy. If you think 17.5 TC is to fast, run GT....build the class up with the other guys at your track/club and have a good time....
What am I missing?....17.5 isn't stock?...so what....its a class of the majority that race onroad. And you want to mess with that. Really? I might understand if it was a failing class or just not offered in your area...but seriously where and what event you been to that didn't have 17.5 TC?....
BTW...I hate 17.5 TC...but I also understand that its popular enough to keep the doors open.
Fix your track, bring in new racers to already existing classes that have proven to appeal to the masses. Put on a trophy race just for beginners and have prizes and trophies. Do something other than complaining about what's wrong in a public forum. If I was new and thinking about onroad, reading this would suck all the fun out of it. Support your track/hobby by building not tearing down.
Im out...see ya in Carolina
11-02-2015, 11:21 AM
#768
I want to know if it wouldn't be easier to just change gearing vs motor change? Most 17.5 run with gearing 3.8 - 3.5. Wouldn't gearing it to 4.5-5.0 effectively slow it down at a minimal cost plus you could eliminate fans whigh would be a weight and money savings. That is way cheaper than spending money to buy a slower motor? Just asking.
I run TC and I am not good as I would like to be but for the most part I love it. The part I don't like is when I break something, but then again that is why I run Xray. Can take the beating I give it and come back for more for the most part.
I run TC and I am not good as I would like to be but for the most part I love it. The part I don't like is when I break something, but then again that is why I run Xray. Can take the beating I give it and come back for more for the most part.
11-02-2015, 11:31 AM
#769
I want to know if it wouldn't be easier to just change gearing vs motor change? Most 17.5 run with gearing 3.8 - 3.5. Wouldn't gearing it to 4.5-5.0 effectively slow it down at a minimal cost plus you could eliminate fans whigh would be a weight and money savings. That is way cheaper than spending money to buy a slower motor? Just asking.
I run TC and I am not good as I would like to be but for the most part I love it. The part I don't like is when I break something, but then again that is why I run Xray. Can take the beating I give it and come back for more for the most part.
I run TC and I am not good as I would like to be but for the most part I love it. The part I don't like is when I break something, but then again that is why I run Xray. Can take the beating I give it and come back for more for the most part.
11-02-2015, 11:33 AM
#770
so what do all of these 17.5 guys do with the $100's and some cases $1000's of dollars in motors?....and don't forget, 17.5 TC is the largest class almost anywhere and event....
so where does this leave them?...
what I see is everyone thinks 17.5 TC is to fast....correct?...to fast for who?....most?...I find that hard to believe if its so fast and out of control, why so many people run it?...even with slower classes available?...
why run 17.5 TC if its to fast?...cause racers simply want to....need for speed. Why is that so hard to understand. Should they be running GT 21.5 or VTA 25.5?...some yes. But if they feel they can hang on, let them. Why try to create yet another class so only a few can enjoy. If you think 17.5 TC is to fast, run GT....build the class up with the other guys at your track/club and have a good time....
What am I missing?....17.5 isn't stock?...so what....its a class of the majority that race onroad. And you want to mess with that. Really? I might understand if it was a failing class or just not offered in your area...but seriously where and what event you been to that didn't have 17.5 TC?....
BTW...I hate 17.5 TC...but I also understand that its popular enough to keep the doors open.
Fix your track, bring in new racers to already existing classes that have proven to appeal to the masses. Put on a trophy race just for beginners and have prizes and trophies. Do something other than complaining about what's wrong in a public forum. If I was new and thinking about onroad, reading this would suck all the fun out of it. Support your track/hobby by building not tearing down.
Im out...see ya in Carolina
so where does this leave them?...
what I see is everyone thinks 17.5 TC is to fast....correct?...to fast for who?....most?...I find that hard to believe if its so fast and out of control, why so many people run it?...even with slower classes available?...
why run 17.5 TC if its to fast?...cause racers simply want to....need for speed. Why is that so hard to understand. Should they be running GT 21.5 or VTA 25.5?...some yes. But if they feel they can hang on, let them. Why try to create yet another class so only a few can enjoy. If you think 17.5 TC is to fast, run GT....build the class up with the other guys at your track/club and have a good time....
What am I missing?....17.5 isn't stock?...so what....its a class of the majority that race onroad. And you want to mess with that. Really? I might understand if it was a failing class or just not offered in your area...but seriously where and what event you been to that didn't have 17.5 TC?....
BTW...I hate 17.5 TC...but I also understand that its popular enough to keep the doors open.
Fix your track, bring in new racers to already existing classes that have proven to appeal to the masses. Put on a trophy race just for beginners and have prizes and trophies. Do something other than complaining about what's wrong in a public forum. If I was new and thinking about onroad, reading this would suck all the fun out of it. Support your track/hobby by building not tearing down.
Im out...see ya in Carolina
11-02-2015, 11:35 AM
#771
Some guys have experimented with setting an RPM limit at the wheel, measured with an optical tach. It worked fine for the type of class they were running (Mini and VTA), but I wouldn't suggest it for the classes we have been discussing in this thread.
11-02-2015, 11:42 AM
#772
so what do all of these 17.5 guys do with the $100's and some cases $1000's of dollars in motors?....and don't forget, 17.5 TC is the largest class almost anywhere and event....
so where does this leave them?...
what I see is everyone thinks 17.5 TC is to fast....correct?...to fast for who?....most?...I find that hard to believe if its so fast and out of control, why so many people run it?...even with slower classes available?...
why run 17.5 TC if its to fast?...cause racers simply want to....need for speed. Why is that so hard to understand. Should they be running GT 21.5 or VTA 25.5?...some yes. But if they feel they can hang on, let them. Why try to create yet another class so only a few can enjoy. If you think 17.5 TC is to fast, run GT....build the class up with the other guys at your track/club and have a good time....
What am I missing?....17.5 isn't stock?...so what....its a class of the majority that race onroad. And you want to mess with that. Really? I might understand if it was a failing class or just not offered in your area...but seriously where and what event you been to that didn't have 17.5 TC?....
BTW...I hate 17.5 TC...but I also understand that its popular enough to keep the doors open.
Fix your track, bring in new racers to already existing classes that have proven to appeal to the masses. Put on a trophy race just for beginners and have prizes and trophies. Do something other than complaining about what's wrong in a public forum. If I was new and thinking about onroad, reading this would suck all the fun out of it. Support your track/hobby by building not tearing down.
Im out...see ya in Carolina
so where does this leave them?...
what I see is everyone thinks 17.5 TC is to fast....correct?...to fast for who?....most?...I find that hard to believe if its so fast and out of control, why so many people run it?...even with slower classes available?...
why run 17.5 TC if its to fast?...cause racers simply want to....need for speed. Why is that so hard to understand. Should they be running GT 21.5 or VTA 25.5?...some yes. But if they feel they can hang on, let them. Why try to create yet another class so only a few can enjoy. If you think 17.5 TC is to fast, run GT....build the class up with the other guys at your track/club and have a good time....
What am I missing?....17.5 isn't stock?...so what....its a class of the majority that race onroad. And you want to mess with that. Really? I might understand if it was a failing class or just not offered in your area...but seriously where and what event you been to that didn't have 17.5 TC?....
BTW...I hate 17.5 TC...but I also understand that its popular enough to keep the doors open.
Fix your track, bring in new racers to already existing classes that have proven to appeal to the masses. Put on a trophy race just for beginners and have prizes and trophies. Do something other than complaining about what's wrong in a public forum. If I was new and thinking about onroad, reading this would suck all the fun out of it. Support your track/hobby by building not tearing down.
Im out...see ya in Carolina
11-02-2015, 11:45 AM
#773
Then it would be a motor RPM war. Everyone would advance the timing to crazy levels to be faster down the straight.
Some guys have experimented with setting an RPM limit at the wheel, measured with an optical tach. It worked fine for the type of class they were running (Mini and VTA), but I wouldn't suggest it for the classes we have been discussing in this thread.
Some guys have experimented with setting an RPM limit at the wheel, measured with an optical tach. It worked fine for the type of class they were running (Mini and VTA), but I wouldn't suggest it for the classes we have been discussing in this thread.
11-02-2015, 12:49 PM
#774
Myron, your snide comments about us complaining or crying doesn't bode well for taking your opinions seriously.
But to address some of your concerns:
17.5 is popular, but not for the reasons you think. Half the guys would be better off with a slower motor while the other half would be better off with a faster motor. It's currently a bastard class that doesn't have any real definition of being a stock or pro class. If you had some of the top 17.5 guys running 17.5 on asphalt they'd be made fun of, and rightfully so I may add.
The guys dropping $1000 on motors will drop another $1000 on motors whether the wind changes or not.
Where have I suggested creating another class on top of what we have. I've suggested a streamlined class selection.
But to address some of your concerns:
17.5 is popular, but not for the reasons you think. Half the guys would be better off with a slower motor while the other half would be better off with a faster motor. It's currently a bastard class that doesn't have any real definition of being a stock or pro class. If you had some of the top 17.5 guys running 17.5 on asphalt they'd be made fun of, and rightfully so I may add.
The guys dropping $1000 on motors will drop another $1000 on motors whether the wind changes or not.
Where have I suggested creating another class on top of what we have. I've suggested a streamlined class selection.
11-02-2015, 01:48 PM
#775
Ok conspiracy theory time.
Manufacturers are around the world don't want open mod, they don't even want spec classes that are just a little more powerful than they need to be. They like that the U.S. Is stuck on 17.5. Why??? Because of two reasons. 1. We run out motors on the ragged edge and cook them on a regular basis. This requires new motors or at least rotors when they get damaged. 2. They can come out with a new faster 17.5 every few months and the market will jump and say thank you.
If we were running motors within there true power range, there wouldn't be a new, faster version on the same wind. You don't see manufactures bragging that they have the faster 8.5 turn do you? No, because if you wanted or needed faster you just get a 6.5 turn.
Now the conspiracy... Our glorious sanctioning bodies and the manufactures colluded knowing these facts to make 17.5 the class in the U.S. For some reason it stuck in onroad, but in off-road, with the exception of SCT, 17.5 has all but died out. And even 17.5 SCT is really only run, guess what, indoors...
Discuss.
Manufacturers are around the world don't want open mod, they don't even want spec classes that are just a little more powerful than they need to be. They like that the U.S. Is stuck on 17.5. Why??? Because of two reasons. 1. We run out motors on the ragged edge and cook them on a regular basis. This requires new motors or at least rotors when they get damaged. 2. They can come out with a new faster 17.5 every few months and the market will jump and say thank you.
If we were running motors within there true power range, there wouldn't be a new, faster version on the same wind. You don't see manufactures bragging that they have the faster 8.5 turn do you? No, because if you wanted or needed faster you just get a 6.5 turn.
Now the conspiracy... Our glorious sanctioning bodies and the manufactures colluded knowing these facts to make 17.5 the class in the U.S. For some reason it stuck in onroad, but in off-road, with the exception of SCT, 17.5 has all but died out. And even 17.5 SCT is really only run, guess what, indoors...
Discuss.
11-02-2015, 01:56 PM
#776
That's part of the problem the manufacturers have to much say with the sactioning bodies.
11-02-2015, 02:01 PM
#777
Ok conspiracy theory time.
Manufacturers are around the world don't want open mod, they don't even want spec classes that are just a little more powerful than they need to be. They like that the U.S. Is stuck on 17.5. Why??? Because of two reasons. 1. We run out motors on the ragged edge and cook them on a regular basis. This requires new motors or at least rotors when they get damaged. 2. They can come out with a new faster 17.5 every few months and the market will jump and say thank you.
If we were running motors within there true power range, there wouldn't be a new, faster version on the same wind. You don't see manufactures bragging that they have the faster 8.5 turn do you? No, because if you wanted or needed faster you just get a 6.5 turn.
Now the conspiracy... Our glorious sanctioning bodies and the manufactures colluded knowing these facts to make 17.5 the class in the U.S. For some reason it stuck in onroad, but in off-road, with the exception of SCT, 17.5 has all but died out. And even 17.5 SCT is really only run, guess what, indoors...
Discuss.
Manufacturers are around the world don't want open mod, they don't even want spec classes that are just a little more powerful than they need to be. They like that the U.S. Is stuck on 17.5. Why??? Because of two reasons. 1. We run out motors on the ragged edge and cook them on a regular basis. This requires new motors or at least rotors when they get damaged. 2. They can come out with a new faster 17.5 every few months and the market will jump and say thank you.
If we were running motors within there true power range, there wouldn't be a new, faster version on the same wind. You don't see manufactures bragging that they have the faster 8.5 turn do you? No, because if you wanted or needed faster you just get a 6.5 turn.
Now the conspiracy... Our glorious sanctioning bodies and the manufactures colluded knowing these facts to make 17.5 the class in the U.S. For some reason it stuck in onroad, but in off-road, with the exception of SCT, 17.5 has all but died out. And even 17.5 SCT is really only run, guess what, indoors...
Discuss.
11-02-2015, 02:03 PM
#778
Ok conspiracy theory time.
Manufacturers are around the world don't want open mod, they don't even want spec classes that are just a little more powerful than they need to be. They like that the U.S. Is stuck on 17.5. Why??? Because of two reasons. 1. We run out motors on the ragged edge and cook them on a regular basis. This requires new motors or at least rotors when they get damaged. 2. They can come out with a new faster 17.5 every few months and the market will jump and say thank you.
If we were running motors within there true power range, there wouldn't be a new, faster version on the same wind. You don't see manufactures bragging that they have the faster 8.5 turn do you? No, because if you wanted or needed faster you just get a 6.5 turn.
Now the conspiracy... Our glorious sanctioning bodies and the manufactures colluded knowing these facts to make 17.5 the class in the U.S. For some reason it stuck in onroad, but in off-road, with the exception of SCT, 17.5 has all but died out. And even 17.5 SCT is really only run, guess what, indoors...
Discuss.
Manufacturers are around the world don't want open mod, they don't even want spec classes that are just a little more powerful than they need to be. They like that the U.S. Is stuck on 17.5. Why??? Because of two reasons. 1. We run out motors on the ragged edge and cook them on a regular basis. This requires new motors or at least rotors when they get damaged. 2. They can come out with a new faster 17.5 every few months and the market will jump and say thank you.
If we were running motors within there true power range, there wouldn't be a new, faster version on the same wind. You don't see manufactures bragging that they have the faster 8.5 turn do you? No, because if you wanted or needed faster you just get a 6.5 turn.
Now the conspiracy... Our glorious sanctioning bodies and the manufactures colluded knowing these facts to make 17.5 the class in the U.S. For some reason it stuck in onroad, but in off-road, with the exception of SCT, 17.5 has all but died out. And even 17.5 SCT is really only run, guess what, indoors...
Discuss.
11-02-2015, 02:04 PM
#779
Tech Regular
A 17.5 motor is the easiest motor to sell at any track that runs 2 wheel buggy class. It's the perfect 2wd "stock" buggy motor when you factor in the drag of a 3 or 4 gear transmission.(actually a little slow w/4gear) If you can't sell a 17.5 that has only been run on carpet, you're not trying very hard. I suspect some of the guys who have $1000 worth of motors also have a partial sponsorship or at least know a guy who knows a guy. Half of those guys probably already have a 13.5 in their box that they have been itching to run. I know this is a fact because many of those guys raced with me when we ran 13.5 foam TC.
11-02-2015, 02:16 PM
#780
We shoot ourselves in the foot by constantly pushing the envelope to be competitive. But, you can't stop that. It's only natural. It goes against our being to slow down. First question of every true noob: "How fast does it go?" We answer: "Blink and you'll be using a dust pan to pick it up." That is the answer the noob wants to hear. They must experience the pucker factor before they realize they will destroy the car come the next corner. We fix the car, that was fun. Let's do it again. Speed is intoxicating. It is drunk driving of sorts. Our initial outing is fun, let's do this again with a bunch of people. So then we decided to race these things that could take out a corner marshal and restrict them to a certain form factor so we don't in fact remove some poor guys feet from the ankles down. Some of us put on our big boy pants and the rest get on their Manties (remember, we're insulting because we are drunk with speed). And that's where the problems start at every discussion. Please put your ego away and stop thinking with your radio. We forget we are racing for fun. This is our field of dreams.