reptilesnr/c

Actually a guy at our local track had a Tc4 he turned into a drifter didn't do to bad. Charger body on it and he made his own tires so i can vouch for a Tc4 being a drifter.

DaveW

iTrader: (1)

I have a rubber tire(sorex,RP,takeoffs work with it)/carpet(ozite) setup on my Tc4 i am currently running, and its competitive with the current belt cars. The only time the rear comes loose is if i overdrive it and basically pitch it sideways to get around a really tight 180 turn we have at our track. I have to MAKE it get loose, but it doesnt come anywhere near close to spinning out. Its a controlled slide, with a little bit of tire squeal, and it locks right back into place. Id be glad to pass the setup on if ya like, and even provide a few pix if it would help ya out. LMK

touringdriver

iTrader: (16)

that would be great, looking to get the rear to grip more. turns on a dime though.

DaveW

iTrader: (1)

Will do. I already took the pix last night, just in case. Ill write up my Tc4 setup in full and post it up in a bit.


BTW. I assumed we were talking about the tub version???

Boomer

At what point in the turn is the back end wanting to come around? At turn-in? This could indicate that you may need to either drop a spring rate in the rear, go slightly heavier in oil in the front, or add a very light front sway bar (i.e. you're transferring too much weight away from the rear too quickly, leaving too little weight on the rears. Thicker oil will slow the weight transfer down, lighter springs in the rear will allow the rear to react more quickly, and front sway bars will help lessen the side-to-side transfer and hopefully keep the inside rear tire down.)

DaveW

iTrader: (1)

::Stock Motor/Rubber Tire/Medium Grip Ozite::

This is for the tub Tc4. It works fairly well in keeping up with the local belt cars (Corally for the most part). Posting this setup in no way means its the shizzle... but a decent driver can be competitive on a local level on the cheap with this car. I am actually surprised how well the car works with rubber tires on ozite. This same car with foams on the same track would reach a limit in performance, and go no faster. For the most part it has all of the stock Tc4 components, but some are also the common swapped parts from other kits (Losi primarily). I will go ahead and list the swapped parts first in hopes to avoid confusion later.

Front steering knuckles and caster blocks are from the Losi XXX-S, as well as the rear 0 degree toe/0 offset hubs.

Schumacher grippa ballcups with Lunsford Ti turnbuckles. Bulletproof.

XRay shock spring sets. This was the single most effective change by any part on this chassis. Im not an XRay chassis fan, but damn if these springs didnt wake this chassis up!

My electronics are nothing spectacular. The tried and true Novak GT7 and a XX-L receiver round out the bling. A die-hard Airtronics 94357 serves the wheel inputs. The motor of choice during this particular day was a revived Green Epic teardown. I tried the Blue Epic teardown, but it lacked some needed rpm in my case, both geared 100/32. Cells are forward mounted, and the current generation Trinity 4600 IB's. Air temp was mid 60's. Im also running a Tc3 carbon mainshaft using the Tc3 cups.

_______Front_______

Aluminum suspension mounts: Triangle (4 shims) and Circle (3 Shims)

Arms: Back .090

Caster: 2 degrees

Ackerman: Silver ballstud + .060

Bumpsteer: Silver ballstud + .120

Camber link studs, both silver, inner stud + .030 in the inner hole

Steel diff, tightened to the point of avoiding slippage

Thick AE blue CVD bones

No swaybar

Droop screws installed, but not touching the chassis during use

Toe: -1

Camber: -1

Shocks: XRay white springs, Uno shafts, #1 pistons, Losi 50wt oil, no limiters. In on the arm, hole 2 on the tower.

NOTE: AE blue threaded bodies with the plastic stoppers from the newer AE bladder kit in place of the original "foam compensator" setup. I use an old school bleeder screw (in stock Tc3/4 shock cap) method for shock bleeding, but 0-10% rebound should get you in the ballpark, regardless of bleeding procedure. If the car rolls a little too much for your taste, try the next stiffest spring on all four, and/or a little more rebound in your shocks.




_______REAR________

Aluminum suspension mounts: Circle (5 shims) and X 3.0 (5 shims)

Arms: Front .090

Hub Wheelbase: Short

Camber link studs, both black, both inner hole

Plastic diff tightened to the point of avoiding slippage

Standard Niftech CVD bones (opt for Tc3 composite bone)

No swaybar

Droop screws installed, but not touching the chassis during use

Camber: -1

Shocks: XRay white springs, Uno shafts, #1 pistons, Losi 40wt oil, no limiters. Out on the arm, hole 4 on the tower.

NOTE: See front shock info.


Car was balanced on an MIP tweak station. It balanced well with my current electronics... needing only a few slight turns on the collars to perfect, after setting the ride height to 5mm. Weighed in right at the legal limit. Also, the 4600's dont fit the stock tub well w/o some modification, and the battery brace is useless. I customized the chassis battery slots and added slots for battery tape. Body used is a Protoform Mazda 6 with 1/2" trimmed off the stock wing, side dams unchanged. Tire sauce is Paragon, and tires warmed to 100 degrees before hitting the track. Tires used were Sorex medium premounts from Nexus Racing. They have close to 1.5mm air gap. The car rotates well like my XRay T2 did, but has the snap of a shaft car off the corner. It also checks up really quick... something a belt car lacks. The dual diffs dont work as well in medium-sized sweeping corners against one-way equipped belt cars... but its a beast part throttle in the twisties.


PIX: These were taken a bit ago... i have changed the car some since, and they arent the best, but it will give you an idea.

ralph_c

Cheers Dave. Always good to see what other people are running, Might try those settings for roll centres, kick-up, anti-squat etc

Also, I've been looking for some replacement one-way outdrives as one of them on my second hand one-way broke running stock on my second run! . Everywhere I look they seem to be out of stock or hard to get to England. Does anybody know if the Yokomo replacement outdrives (YOK-ZS-642T) fit? As these look similar, but I have no idea of the sizes without trying.

Alternatively, has anybody got any spares?

DaveW

iTrader: (1)

WOW. I wish i could be more help with the whole one-way thing. I have one of the second generation one-ways... but i cant be positive of the differences of the two, does the newer one have the larger inner bearings (5mm to 6mm)? Its been so long im having a hard time remembering. You cant find the parts through TowerHobbies.com? I have tried to run a one-way and just cant seem to get it to feel consistent in a shaft car. A belt car seems to dull the feel/response of a one-way, but still gives the performance of one, at least to me anyways. A friend of mine let me wheel his Serpent 400 with a one-way in it, and i couldnt even tell it was in there!! That thing was on rails. Would you mind passin on your Tc4 setup so i could try it? I can see the advantage of the one-way/belt car setup in the sweepers at my local track... im wondering if i can find a middle ground and be able to run a one-way in the Tc4.

ralph_c

Cheers Dave. I looked at Tower hobbies and they dont seem to have them either! Looks good for other spares though . Not sure which version of the one-way I have, but it's the silver aluminium one, and it fits the standard outdrive bearings fine. I thought one of the one-ways was based around the yokomo one, but that might be wrong?

I only ran the one-way for literally 2 runs before the outdrive broke, so I hadnt' really had a chance to dial it in. It did free up the rear of my car though, which is what I'd hoped for. At the moment I'm back to using a diff, running stock with rubber tyres on carpet. The car feels twitchy going into the corner, but once its started turning the car really scrubs off speed before rotating round the apex. It's driveable, and I can run 5 minute races without crashing and just scrape wins at club meetings but it feels really limited and well off the pace against better opposition. It needs to be a lot looser in the middle and exit of the corner but I'm not quite sure what else to try changing...

Running the TC4 FT, with the centre spline but no stand-off posts. Using shocks with the VCS2 diaphragm kit. Car is running the standard TC4 C-hubs, steering knuckles etc

Front
- Shocks - 40wt shock oil, No.2 piston. Springs are yokomo Fluoro yellow (think these are about 15lb). Shocks mounted on outside hole on the wishbone, 3rd hole out (from the inside) on the shock tower.
- Running kit aluminium wishbone mounts. 0 shims under rear block, 2 shims under the front block. Running 2 shims behind the wishbones, 1 in front
- Camber link is on the second hold out, silver ballstud with 1 0.030 shim.
- Steering rack is set up as per the kit instructions. No shims for ackermann, 3 0.030 shims on steering knuckles for bump steer.
- Using plastic diff tightened just enough to prevent it slipping, but still fairly smooth.
- Camber is 1.5', steering links set to give a very small amount of toe-out
- Droop is set to 6 up front using AE guage

Back
- Shocks - 35wt oil, No. 2 piston. Springs are yokomo silvers (probably around 10-12lb!?). Shocks mounted outside hole at the bottom and 3rd hole out on the shock tower.
- Square front wishbone mount, 2.5' rear mount. Standard TC4 0' hubs. 0 shims under rear block, 3 under square block at the front. Running 2 shims behind the wishbones, 1 in front.
- Camber link is on the inside hole, Using silver ballstud with 1 0.030 shim.
- Camber set to 1.5'
- Droop set to 5 on AE guage

Ride height set at 5mm all round. No swaybars front or rear. Using CS22 or Vtec 27R tyres with Corally carpet jack tyre additive. I was running the car with AE blue springs all round until a couple of months ago and didnt find it any better.

Any ideas?

DaveW

iTrader: (1)

XRay white springs are 17.5lbs. Your spring rate should be a good place to start. But trying AE springs of the same/similar rate made the car slower... not changing anything else. I dont know whats up with the XRay springs, but they were by far the most improved change i made on either the FTTc4 or the tub car. I hate to say it because they are so darned expensive, but they are worth it. The next biggest thing would be to swap your rear suspension mounts with the circle block in the front and the X 3.0 in the rear which widens the rear track width... and if i remember correctly, this removes some rear toe as well... which frees up the car considerably. The Losi rear hubs move the ballstud to a vertical position allowing you alot of roll center adjustments... but it also seems to lock the rear in more... but not tighten it up. The change feels similar to running a set of identical rubber tires and inserts on two types of rims... one set of rims stiff, and the other set flexible. Even though the tire/insert combo is the same, the stiffer rim feels more direct and responsive, giving more steering and a solid overall feel. The softer rim can generally push more, be noticeably slower, and just flat out feels "lazy". Thats the difference the rear Losi hubs made on the Tc4... it made the rear of the car feel responsive, more direct, and consistent. It just didnt break free and slide around while tuning for steering. If you look at the large amount of washers i have on the steering rack, its mostly to compensate for the difference in steering hub ballstud location, when compared to the AE steering hubs. But the geometry difference with the combo also makes the steering feel more direct and consistent, but not overly twitchy... like a Tc3 steering rack could feel like (yes i have had one of those in my Tc4). I started (as did ALOT of people) using the Losi caster blocks because they were beefier and withstood wall taps alot better than the original Tc4 parts did. Its a fairly cheap conversion, considering how much better the car handles with the parts as a whole. I use a front steel diff primarily for weight, and secondly for durability. Having the added weight over the front axle line seems to help hold the front end stable and planted through the corner, manipulating the throttle and wheel together in unison to remove or add that weight for more or less steering through a corner. The plastic diff does a fine job, but if you take the time to make these two as your only changes from practice run to practice run... you will notice the difference. Thats another thing i noticed with the front one-way. The front of the car just didnt feel connected and didnt give me a ton of feedback. It would wanna "snap" when hitting irregularities in the racing surface making it even harder to drive the car consistently. I used a blob of full sized car axle grease to slow the one-way bearing action which seemed to help... but it didnt last long and needed frequent maintenance. In the parts bin it went. I started looking elsewhere for corner speed that was more consistent from run to run. As far as shock bladders go... i would only run them on high grip carpet with foams... or something of that level. Bladders, no matter how thin they are, reduce your suspensions ability to comply to the surface. The less grip you have (untreated carpet/unprepped asphalt w/rubber tires) the less likely you will need them. The ONLY time i have ever use bladders and felt they did me any good was at the Snowbirds... or running mod TC with foams. But honestly... if you backed off the power a bit and wheeled it properly, unbladdered shocks with more rebound worked just as well. The grip at Snowbirds though is insane, and the bladders really helped out. Try some old school Tc3 plastic caps and build em with maybe 25% of rebound... see if it improves the cars overall feel and rotation. I think you will be greatly surprised. I have also done alot of laps with Losi internal shock springs in place of rebound. They were common in the front shocks of the XX-4. I think it was CRC that came out years ago with a slew of springs of similar size with different rates. Some interesting finds there as well. You also didnt mention what caster you were running. 2-4 degrees is standard, depending on what kickup you run in the front. My setup is somewhere around 3 degrees, with the kickup and caster block combo. Im mostly babbling here... but try some of that stuff and let me know if it works for ya.

Mike Schumacher

iTrader: (37)

DaveW, do you use graphite upper deck for indoor carpet? I see you cut down the motor clamp...

And what do you use to shim the space around Losi rear carriers/hubs?

DaveW

iTrader: (1)

Yeah i tried a FTTc4 upper deck with the four post ears shaved off and mounted it to the tub chassis with composite standoffs (i even modded four of the FTTc4's aluminum camber link mounts to fit between Tc3 tub wings and the top plate to act as a spacer and camber mount). It was extremely time consuming to change motors though. It really stiffened the car up, but I cant say i gave it a fair shake... it was so difficult to swap motors... i scrapped the idea and saved the top deck for the FTTc4. At the time the XRay T2 was whuppin my tail, so i bought one to see what the fuss was all about. Meh. It was sold less than four months later.

Do you mean the space between the hub and the arm for wheelbase? I used Losi's plastic shims, part# LOSA 5050 i think it is, and the 1/8 thick spacer fits just fine. Its ID is larger than the hingepin, but it doesnt seem to make much difference. There for a while i was using a setup with the front arms on the back of the car that worked fairly well, and the Losi rear hubs fit flawlessly. (front arms flipped over and spaced .090 to the back places the axle in almost the same place as the standard rear arm spaced .090 to the front with the hub in the short position... you just lose the outer shock position on the arm... the difference was the pivot point of the arm in relation to the weight in the car given almost identical axle position. For a short wheelbase setup, its the poop IMO. You just have to mod the arm for the neccessary shock position, and avoid hitting walls )

Mike Schumacher

iTrader: (37)

DaweW, nice infos. Yes, I couldn't find the small ID shims to match the hingepins. I will try to use LOSA5050 as you suggested.
Do you think the steering rack no need large amount of washers if using JRX-S steering knuckles since they are longer?
Less motor changing in brushless era...
Do you have picture with top deck?

DRAG_ON

any one have any idea where to buy TC4 spare parts online in Asia. And is there any authorized distributor in south east Asian country for associated products.......really need spare parts urgent and LHS not carry anymore TC4 spare parts any online website that sell spare parts for TC4 will be appreciated

Skit Racing CEO

there is only one answer man www.ebay.com you can buy anything on it. They also have all the car parts for the tc4 that you could ever need and then a lot more than that