New Team CRC Gen-XL
08-28-2011, 04:14 PM
#1096
From my understanding its to make the car easier to drive. Which I've been always told a car that's easy to drive isn't fast. So take that for what it's worth that's just what I've been always told 
08-28-2011, 06:03 PM
#1097
In my opinion its just something different so people are all over it. Unless you can move all the weight down the middle like a WGT car, which is impossible on a 12th scale due to space without major design changes, it's not going to make a difference.
In this configuration you might as well be running a t-plate car.
Kenny L is right, a easier car to drive is a slower car.
We'll see how these new inline battery cars play out with the pros at big races this year. My guess is they won't make a difference or will be slower.
Some ideas for the next gen CRC 12th that could make a difference;
- Lipo chassis with more forward battery mounting options (no slots for round cells)
- Longer Shock (helps with #1)
- Wheel base, longer shorter option
- Full piece rear pod top plate to help prevent lower pod plate from tweaking (somewhat available today)
- New rear axle ride height adjustment design (make the car easier to work on and lower parts count to carry around)
- Front end updates (CRC has the best and easiest to adjust front end I've seen to date but I'm sure there's some innovative changes that could be made to make the car faster. Not sure what, but this could be a good place for people to throw out some ideas which CRC could try experimenting with and determine which produce the best performance)
-Track width (has a narrower or wider (based on ROAR rules) been tried?)
-Others welcomed???????
These are the types of things that will make the car perform better not turning the battery sideways.
In this configuration you might as well be running a t-plate car.
Kenny L is right, a easier car to drive is a slower car.
We'll see how these new inline battery cars play out with the pros at big races this year. My guess is they won't make a difference or will be slower.
Some ideas for the next gen CRC 12th that could make a difference;
- Lipo chassis with more forward battery mounting options (no slots for round cells)
- Longer Shock (helps with #1)
- Wheel base, longer shorter option
- Full piece rear pod top plate to help prevent lower pod plate from tweaking (somewhat available today)
- New rear axle ride height adjustment design (make the car easier to work on and lower parts count to carry around)
- Front end updates (CRC has the best and easiest to adjust front end I've seen to date but I'm sure there's some innovative changes that could be made to make the car faster. Not sure what, but this could be a good place for people to throw out some ideas which CRC could try experimenting with and determine which produce the best performance)
-Track width (has a narrower or wider (based on ROAR rules) been tried?)
-Others welcomed???????
These are the types of things that will make the car perform better not turning the battery sideways.
08-28-2011, 06:33 PM
#1098
In my opinion its just something different so people are all over it. Unless you can move all the weight down the middle like a WGT car, which is impossible on a 12th scale due to space without major design changes, it's not going to make a difference.
In this configuration you might as well be running a t-plate car.
Kenny L is right, a easier car to drive is a slower car.
We'll see how these new inline battery cars play out with the pros at big races this year. My guess is they won't make a difference or will be slower.
Some ideas for the next gen CRC 12th that could make a difference;
- Lipo chassis with more forward battery mounting options (no slots for round cells)
- Longer Shock (helps with #1)
- Wheel base, longer shorter option
- Full piece rear pod top plate to help prevent lower pod plate from tweaking (somewhat available today)
- New rear axle ride height adjustment design (make the car easier to work on and lower parts count to carry around)
- Front end updates (CRC has the best and easiest to adjust front end I've seen to date but I'm sure there's some innovative changes that could be made to make the car faster. Not sure what, but this could be a good place for people to throw out some ideas which CRC could try experimenting with and determine which produce the best performance)
-Track width (has a narrower or wider (based on ROAR rules) been tried?)
-Others welcomed???????
These are the types of things that will make the car perform better not turning the battery sideways.
In this configuration you might as well be running a t-plate car.
Kenny L is right, a easier car to drive is a slower car.
We'll see how these new inline battery cars play out with the pros at big races this year. My guess is they won't make a difference or will be slower.
Some ideas for the next gen CRC 12th that could make a difference;
- Lipo chassis with more forward battery mounting options (no slots for round cells)
- Longer Shock (helps with #1)
- Wheel base, longer shorter option
- Full piece rear pod top plate to help prevent lower pod plate from tweaking (somewhat available today)
- New rear axle ride height adjustment design (make the car easier to work on and lower parts count to carry around)
- Front end updates (CRC has the best and easiest to adjust front end I've seen to date but I'm sure there's some innovative changes that could be made to make the car faster. Not sure what, but this could be a good place for people to throw out some ideas which CRC could try experimenting with and determine which produce the best performance)
-Track width (has a narrower or wider (based on ROAR rules) been tried?)
-Others welcomed???????
These are the types of things that will make the car perform better not turning the battery sideways.
Kenny never said the car does drive slow...I know changing the lipo or batteries postition will effect the handling of the car..just like you said ( hoping ,more adjustment forward batteries postition..Just my two cent..
08-28-2011, 07:37 PM
#1099
In my opinion its just something different so people are all over it. Unless you can move all the weight down the middle like a WGT car, which is impossible on a 12th scale due to space without major design changes, it's not going to make a difference.
In this configuration you might as well be running a t-plate car.
Kenny L is right, a easier car to drive is a slower car.
We'll see how these new inline battery cars play out with the pros at big races this year. My guess is they won't make a difference or will be slower.
Some ideas for the next gen CRC 12th that could make a difference;
- Lipo chassis with more forward battery mounting options (no slots for round cells)
- Longer Shock (helps with #1)
- Wheel base, longer shorter option
- Full piece rear pod top plate to help prevent lower pod plate from tweaking (somewhat available today)
- New rear axle ride height adjustment design (make the car easier to work on and lower parts count to carry around)
- Front end updates (CRC has the best and easiest to adjust front end I've seen to date but I'm sure there's some innovative changes that could be made to make the car faster. Not sure what, but this could be a good place for people to throw out some ideas which CRC could try experimenting with and determine which produce the best performance)
-Track width (has a narrower or wider (based on ROAR rules) been tried?)
-Others welcomed???????
These are the types of things that will make the car perform better not turning the battery sideways.
In this configuration you might as well be running a t-plate car.
Kenny L is right, a easier car to drive is a slower car.
We'll see how these new inline battery cars play out with the pros at big races this year. My guess is they won't make a difference or will be slower.
Some ideas for the next gen CRC 12th that could make a difference;
- Lipo chassis with more forward battery mounting options (no slots for round cells)
- Longer Shock (helps with #1)
- Wheel base, longer shorter option
- Full piece rear pod top plate to help prevent lower pod plate from tweaking (somewhat available today)
- New rear axle ride height adjustment design (make the car easier to work on and lower parts count to carry around)
- Front end updates (CRC has the best and easiest to adjust front end I've seen to date but I'm sure there's some innovative changes that could be made to make the car faster. Not sure what, but this could be a good place for people to throw out some ideas which CRC could try experimenting with and determine which produce the best performance)
-Track width (has a narrower or wider (based on ROAR rules) been tried?)
-Others welcomed???????
These are the types of things that will make the car perform better not turning the battery sideways.
08-28-2011, 07:56 PM
#1100
More weight up front would mellow the front out a lot. Less weight transfer and greater load on the tires (depending on how much is being loaded already). Most of these changes were made to calm down an already too aggressive car.
If you have tried the different positions for the battery on a standard car. the forward position makes the car pushy and easy to drive. If you move the battery back then the car is twitchy and loose. Lipo and the weight of the cars have changed setup dramatically. I used to run a super stiff rear end with a soft front end. Now its exactly the opposite. So I would imagine it will change how the new cars are going to be designed.
If you have tried the different positions for the battery on a standard car. the forward position makes the car pushy and easy to drive. If you move the battery back then the car is twitchy and loose. Lipo and the weight of the cars have changed setup dramatically. I used to run a super stiff rear end with a soft front end. Now its exactly the opposite. So I would imagine it will change how the new cars are going to be designed.
08-28-2011, 08:01 PM
#1101
More weight up front would mellow the front out a lot. Less weight transfer and greater load on the tires (depending on how much is being loaded already). Most of these changes were made to calm down an already too aggressive car.
If you have tried the different positions for the battery on a standard car. the forward position makes the car pushy and easy to drive. If you move the battery back then the car is twitchy and loose. Lipo and the weight of the cars have changed setup dramatically. I used to run a super stiff rear end with a soft front end. Now its exactly the opposite. So I would imagine it will change how the new cars are going to be designed.
If you have tried the different positions for the battery on a standard car. the forward position makes the car pushy and easy to drive. If you move the battery back then the car is twitchy and loose. Lipo and the weight of the cars have changed setup dramatically. I used to run a super stiff rear end with a soft front end. Now its exactly the opposite. So I would imagine it will change how the new cars are going to be designed.
08-28-2011, 09:01 PM
#1102
Do you not see how much weight turning the battery sideways moves and your saying it won't make a difference I believe you are very wrong on that. I'm not sure what it will do but moving that much weight around has to do something. And I'm sure if crc would have come out with it first you would have bought one.
We'll see what happens. At this point I'm not a believer in these new design. As some have pointed out, how is moving the battery forward going to make the car faster if it takes away steering????
08-29-2011, 02:17 AM
#1103
Tech Master
In my opinion its just something different so people are all over it. Unless you can move all the weight down the middle like a WGT car, which is impossible on a 12th scale due to space without major design changes, it's not going to make a difference.
In this configuration you might as well be running a t-plate car.
Kenny L is right, a easier car to drive is a slower car.
We'll see how these new inline battery cars play out with the pros at big races this year. My guess is they won't make a difference or will be slower.
Some ideas for the next gen CRC 12th that could make a difference;
- Lipo chassis with more forward battery mounting options (no slots for round cells)
- Longer Shock (helps with #1)
- Wheel base, longer shorter option
- Full piece rear pod top plate to help prevent lower pod plate from tweaking (somewhat available today)
- New rear axle ride height adjustment design (make the car easier to work on and lower parts count to carry around)
- Front end updates (CRC has the best and easiest to adjust front end I've seen to date but I'm sure there's some innovative changes that could be made to make the car faster. Not sure what, but this could be a good place for people to throw out some ideas which CRC could try experimenting with and determine which produce the best performance)
-Track width (has a narrower or wider (based on ROAR rules) been tried?)
-Others welcomed???????
These are the types of things that will make the car perform better not turning the battery sideways.
In this configuration you might as well be running a t-plate car.
Kenny L is right, a easier car to drive is a slower car.
We'll see how these new inline battery cars play out with the pros at big races this year. My guess is they won't make a difference or will be slower.
Some ideas for the next gen CRC 12th that could make a difference;
- Lipo chassis with more forward battery mounting options (no slots for round cells)
- Longer Shock (helps with #1)
- Wheel base, longer shorter option
- Full piece rear pod top plate to help prevent lower pod plate from tweaking (somewhat available today)
- New rear axle ride height adjustment design (make the car easier to work on and lower parts count to carry around)
- Front end updates (CRC has the best and easiest to adjust front end I've seen to date but I'm sure there's some innovative changes that could be made to make the car faster. Not sure what, but this could be a good place for people to throw out some ideas which CRC could try experimenting with and determine which produce the best performance)
-Track width (has a narrower or wider (based on ROAR rules) been tried?)
-Others welcomed???????
These are the types of things that will make the car perform better not turning the battery sideways.
Battery in rear position:
Mid position:
Forward position:
Solid chassis (no cell cut outs):
One piece cross brace and 4 hole top plate:
Due to the slower speeds of 10.5 blinky, the geometry is the same as the original Gen-XL, however, my mod car will basically be the same except longer and wider at the front (plus a new crossbrace that will hold the battery in place for down the length positioning).
08-29-2011, 03:24 AM
#1104
I also think the inline layout is less about forward weight than it is about lower polar moment. In order to hook-up in mod, some brands of chassis had to resort to softer roll-rates, which made them lazy in switchback type corners. By bringing all the electronics closer to the center line, the lateral weight transfer is reduced, and lessens chassis roll. This allows for a softer side to side set-up without the excessive weight transfer, and thus a more stable, faster car.
IMHO, The XL doesn't really need an in line chassis because we have the ability to centralize the electronics behind the servo. So in theory, our should have already had a lower polar moment than other cars depending on how the electronics are installed.
08-29-2011, 04:51 AM
#1105
More weight up front would mellow the front out a lot. Less weight transfer and greater load on the tires (depending on how much is being loaded already). Most of these changes were made to calm down an already too aggressive car.
If you have tried the different positions for the battery on a standard car. the forward position makes the car pushy and easy to drive. If you move the battery back then the car is twitchy and loose. Lipo and the weight of the cars have changed setup dramatically. I used to run a super stiff rear end with a soft front end. Now its exactly the opposite. So I would imagine it will change how the new cars are going to be designed.
If you have tried the different positions for the battery on a standard car. the forward position makes the car pushy and easy to drive. If you move the battery back then the car is twitchy and loose. Lipo and the weight of the cars have changed setup dramatically. I used to run a super stiff rear end with a soft front end. Now its exactly the opposite. So I would imagine it will change how the new cars are going to be designed.
In some cases, it can make a car faster. I've found an XL with a forward mounted battery generally has a bit more high-speed, on-power steering, (think sweeper), but has reduced off-power steering, and mid-corner rotation because of the reduced weight transfer. A rear battery car "throws" the weight forward more under deceleration, and throws it back more when powering out of the corner. The forward mounted battery tends to smooth the car out, but not necessarily slow it down.
I also think the inline layout is less about forward weight than it is about lower polar moment. In order to hook-up in mod, some brands of chassis had to resort to softer roll-rates, which made them lazy in switchback type corners. By bringing all the electronics closer to the center line, the lateral weight transfer is reduced, and lessens chassis roll. This allows for a softer side to side set-up without the excessive weight transfer, and thus a more stable, faster car.
IMHO, The XL doesn't really need an in line chassis because we have the ability to centralize the electronics behind the servo. So in theory, our should have already had a lower polar moment than other cars depending on how the electronics are installed.
I also think the inline layout is less about forward weight than it is about lower polar moment. In order to hook-up in mod, some brands of chassis had to resort to softer roll-rates, which made them lazy in switchback type corners. By bringing all the electronics closer to the center line, the lateral weight transfer is reduced, and lessens chassis roll. This allows for a softer side to side set-up without the excessive weight transfer, and thus a more stable, faster car.
IMHO, The XL doesn't really need an in line chassis because we have the ability to centralize the electronics behind the servo. So in theory, our should have already had a lower polar moment than other cars depending on how the electronics are installed.
I did a lot of testing with the battery in the middle of the car and trying to move it forward on the the Xray. Comparing my xray to the CRC car with the CRC battery in the forward position where most guys run it now the CRC car was WAY more balanced front to rear. The Xray car with the batteries forward was 30 grams lighter on each front tire than the CRC car. This is the reason that the Xray has always been so aggressive. It didnt seem to matter how far forward I moved it all the way up to the shock mount I could never get it anywhere close to the weight ration of the CRC. After moving the battery to the center and balancing the car out the Xray now weighs within 3 grams of the CRC car on 4 scales. It handles WAY better too. I am not at all saying its as good as a CRC car but what I am saying is CRC has the car figured out from the start and the weight ratio front to rear is already right to make the car carry extreme corner speed.
On super high bite tracks its all about finding balance of corner speed but still being able to drive the car consistently the whole run without loosing front or rear grip. If its not balanced it may start good and finish horrible. This is what we always had issues with. I guess we shall find out in Vegas if the center setup is right or not for us!
EA
08-29-2011, 12:53 PM
#1106
So who on the team is going to Vegas?
08-29-2011, 06:30 PM
#1109
i'll be there!
08-30-2011, 05:56 AM
#1110
Tech Elite
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: 5280 Raceway. Denver's finest RC facility
Posts: 4,780
im there. hey kenny, gimmie a call when you get a chance.