"Ask" Jilles Groskamp Tamiya 416 & 417, Team Orion Motors
04-26-2010, 10:43 PM
#1036
Hi Jilles,
Know you were encountering the gear melting problem at TITC using the Speed gears on the M05. How did you solve that problem? Hear from Lenoard that you add a fan onto the gear box area. Possible if i can have a view or a picture on how it's being done?
Kevin
Know you were encountering the gear melting problem at TITC using the Speed gears on the M05. How did you solve that problem? Hear from Lenoard that you add a fan onto the gear box area. Possible if i can have a view or a picture on how it's being done?
Kevin
04-26-2010, 11:07 PM
#1037
CLK - Set-up different between Mod and Stock is the same. As the stock is almost as fast as mod nowadays it's almost same. I think it's more different in driving style.
Musti - I heard not many people can get ahold of the grease. Try Schumacher grease between outdrive and plate, this is the same you use for the ball.
Barry - Wow, I never see this before! I should stick with standard plastic case.
rccartips - I recommend to flip the belts. You need to cut the carbon from the chassis under the diff. I never tried a geardiff, but I want to test soon.
energydrink - Many times I recommend no additive on the tyres as it works sometimes better. If I look at the Euros 2007 and 2008 we didn't use additive on the tyres. Set-up should be same as additive is normally only for the first lap.
geeunit1014 - The tyre wear is normal. Some tyres/inserts have this problem. This problem can be also because different additive applied or different driving style. Maybe you can try to drive less camber.
vadersing - kick-up means that the rear suspension arm has an angle. 1mm spacer in the front and 0mm in the rear.
20967 - There are many factors that can change a lot. You need to give me more info like tyre additive, radio, motor and speedo setting and driving style.
If your car is working good on carpet, the same set-up should work good enough on asphalt. Your set-ups look oke, so there must be something else going on. If you really want to know why others have more grip or better balance you should ask them if you can run their tyres. Tyres is most important of the car.
Kevin - At this moment I return back in Holland and my mini is still in Thailand. I made some holes in the plastic where the gears are. And the biggest hole I made in front of where you have the pinion. There I attached a coolfan. This really helped a lot.
Jilles
Musti - I heard not many people can get ahold of the grease. Try Schumacher grease between outdrive and plate, this is the same you use for the ball.
Barry - Wow, I never see this before! I should stick with standard plastic case.
rccartips - I recommend to flip the belts. You need to cut the carbon from the chassis under the diff. I never tried a geardiff, but I want to test soon.
energydrink - Many times I recommend no additive on the tyres as it works sometimes better. If I look at the Euros 2007 and 2008 we didn't use additive on the tyres. Set-up should be same as additive is normally only for the first lap.
geeunit1014 - The tyre wear is normal. Some tyres/inserts have this problem. This problem can be also because different additive applied or different driving style. Maybe you can try to drive less camber.
vadersing - kick-up means that the rear suspension arm has an angle. 1mm spacer in the front and 0mm in the rear.
20967 - There are many factors that can change a lot. You need to give me more info like tyre additive, radio, motor and speedo setting and driving style.
If your car is working good on carpet, the same set-up should work good enough on asphalt. Your set-ups look oke, so there must be something else going on. If you really want to know why others have more grip or better balance you should ask them if you can run their tyres. Tyres is most important of the car.
Kevin - At this moment I return back in Holland and my mini is still in Thailand. I made some holes in the plastic where the gears are. And the biggest hole I made in front of where you have the pinion. There I attached a coolfan. This really helped a lot.
Jilles
04-27-2010, 04:39 AM
#1038
Tech Apprentice
Hi Jilles,
My home track is a small technical indoor track with a lot traction.
Since i drove the most on this kind of tracks i am faster then some people on this kind of tracks.
On big outdoor tracks i am a lot slower (0.3s -0.6s) then the same people with the same car and setup and tyres and so on....
So i ame sure that it has to be my driving style, i have already found out that for some corners i have to brake later and harder and also that i was taking my apex to early.
When i do this right then i see that my laptimes already dropping, on big races like last euro's in luxemburg and ets races then i see the full potential of the cars and the thents that i ame slower then that.At the euro's in luxemburg i was doing every qualification 19.2 or 19.1 while you where doing 18.2 sec
I think the thents difference between me and the fastest guys like you is for 90% driving style and for 10% setup and better stuff, wich means i can make for 90% up by just driving better lines,smoother driving,.......
At this point its hard for me to find out what mistakes i am making while you would see it immediately.
I know that i sometimes mis the apex a little bit and make little mistakes that are obvious but i am looking more for the mistakes i make while i think that i am doing a perfect round.
Do you think its a good idea if i make a little video of me driving so you can point out the mistakes so everybody here can learn from it?
What are the most things people are doing wrong without knowing it?
I know i still have to practice a lot but i would be a big help if i would know what to practice on.
Grtzz.
My home track is a small technical indoor track with a lot traction.
Since i drove the most on this kind of tracks i am faster then some people on this kind of tracks.
On big outdoor tracks i am a lot slower (0.3s -0.6s) then the same people with the same car and setup and tyres and so on....
So i ame sure that it has to be my driving style, i have already found out that for some corners i have to brake later and harder and also that i was taking my apex to early.
When i do this right then i see that my laptimes already dropping, on big races like last euro's in luxemburg and ets races then i see the full potential of the cars and the thents that i ame slower then that.At the euro's in luxemburg i was doing every qualification 19.2 or 19.1 while you where doing 18.2 sec
I think the thents difference between me and the fastest guys like you is for 90% driving style and for 10% setup and better stuff, wich means i can make for 90% up by just driving better lines,smoother driving,.......
At this point its hard for me to find out what mistakes i am making while you would see it immediately.
I know that i sometimes mis the apex a little bit and make little mistakes that are obvious but i am looking more for the mistakes i make while i think that i am doing a perfect round.
Do you think its a good idea if i make a little video of me driving so you can point out the mistakes so everybody here can learn from it?
What are the most things people are doing wrong without knowing it?
I know i still have to practice a lot but i would be a big help if i would know what to practice on.
Grtzz.
04-27-2010, 04:44 AM
#1039
Tech Adept
Hi Jilles,
How are you ?
I would like to have your advice to have more steering off throttle...
Here is a part of my setup:
400 front rear
Pink and silver
0.5° front kick up
Sorex36 Schumacher, 20min Tire tweak at 60°
If i make this change:
silver all around
more ackerman: 5-> 4
What do you think ?
How are you ?
I would like to have your advice to have more steering off throttle...
Here is a part of my setup:
400 front rear
Pink and silver
0.5° front kick up
Sorex36 Schumacher, 20min Tire tweak at 60°
If i make this change:
silver all around
more ackerman: 5-> 4
What do you think ?
04-27-2010, 02:13 PM
#1040
Do you think going up one rate in springs all around would help also? I was originally running 1.5* in the front and 2* in the back. I took .5* out already, will it make much difference in traction if I take out another .5*?
Thanks again
04-27-2010, 04:41 PM
#1041
jilles,
when it comes to the topdeck for the 416X, how much do you sand each side down so theres no binding against the bulkheads in the front and rear?
And with the top camber arms front and rear does it affect handling when you change the positions of the screw, for example from position 3 to 1?
thanks =)
when it comes to the topdeck for the 416X, how much do you sand each side down so theres no binding against the bulkheads in the front and rear?
And with the top camber arms front and rear does it affect handling when you change the positions of the screw, for example from position 3 to 1?
thanks =)
04-29-2010, 10:47 AM
#1042
Hi Jilles,
I am running mod sedan on a large track designed for gas cars 200ftx100ft with long high speed corners. I have found that my car has a slight push in corners such as long 90 degree sweepers coming off of fast straights and that my front tires are wearing about twice as fast as my rears. Are there any general set up things I can do that would give me more high speed steering while reducing front tire wear?
Also in your opinion, how are the latest version of the Orion mod motors that the public are able to purchase? I am worried about blowing up motors and was curious if you have run into any problems or if they have been proven to be reliable and fast running at high rpm with reasonable high temps. Also have you found that fans provide any benefit in cooling?
Thanks!
I am running mod sedan on a large track designed for gas cars 200ftx100ft with long high speed corners. I have found that my car has a slight push in corners such as long 90 degree sweepers coming off of fast straights and that my front tires are wearing about twice as fast as my rears. Are there any general set up things I can do that would give me more high speed steering while reducing front tire wear?
Also in your opinion, how are the latest version of the Orion mod motors that the public are able to purchase? I am worried about blowing up motors and was curious if you have run into any problems or if they have been proven to be reliable and fast running at high rpm with reasonable high temps. Also have you found that fans provide any benefit in cooling?
Thanks!
04-29-2010, 01:12 PM
#1043
Hello Jilles
Enrico Cardani from Italy and I want some info to get a better setup in my/our 416x.
So, when I ran indoors, and copying your setup, everything went well; now in our Racing Club in Milan when Solaris tires are imposed (before with medium insert and hard now) we have a lots of troubles.
Here my/our problems:
The track has an asphalt abrasive, not smooth without bumpy with medium/low grip surface; the category is powered by 10.5.
The cars use much internal tire (front and rear) and after 4/5 rounds are destroyed; the car have a lots of slipping; sometimes seems to drive on ice.
The guys that use the same setup with LRP or Novak 10.5 motor and a body similar to LTCR Protoform have a good balance, other with same setup and Mazda 6 or Mazda 6 Speed Protoform powered by SpeedPassion V3 10.5 or Lipotek 10.5 have many troubles.
I send two setups:
The first setup it’s relative at the race start; the second at the end race without better balance.
Can you give us some Help?
Enrico Cardani from Italy and I want some info to get a better setup in my/our 416x.
So, when I ran indoors, and copying your setup, everything went well; now in our Racing Club in Milan when Solaris tires are imposed (before with medium insert and hard now) we have a lots of troubles.
Here my/our problems:
The track has an asphalt abrasive, not smooth without bumpy with medium/low grip surface; the category is powered by 10.5.
The cars use much internal tire (front and rear) and after 4/5 rounds are destroyed; the car have a lots of slipping; sometimes seems to drive on ice.
The guys that use the same setup with LRP or Novak 10.5 motor and a body similar to LTCR Protoform have a good balance, other with same setup and Mazda 6 or Mazda 6 Speed Protoform powered by SpeedPassion V3 10.5 or Lipotek 10.5 have many troubles.
I send two setups:
The first setup it’s relative at the race start; the second at the end race without better balance.
Can you give us some Help?
I am returning for more info we can provide
Additive never use
Radio Futaba 3VCS – Servo Futaba S9551 –
Radio Set
Steering expo -25%
Throttle and Brake expo 0
Brake 100%
Engine SpeedPassion V3 10.5 - 5:36 ratio (73 Spur - 28 pinion 48 dp ) no advance
ESC LRP SXX TC SPEC- Set: 1 Lipo - Power profile 7 - Initial Brake 0 - Automatic Brake 3
Lipo H- Energy 5200 25 C New
Tire IMPOSED SOLARIS HARD 1 Set for all
I am running 10.5 sedan on a medium track
Non-aggressive driving style
I would also know how many race after you change the frame and if the material of the European frame is different from others.
Thks in advance
04-30-2010, 02:19 AM
#1045
thats probably enough info for you to understand suspension blocks, download the excel document aswell, its a good table to use as a quick reference...
05-03-2010, 02:47 AM
#1046
Sitting duck - If you really want to improve driving skills, you should consider driving more international races. Ofcourse at your hometrack you can beat most of your competition but as soon you go to other tracks you miss the experience and skill to drive another layout. Just keep on practising and look at the faster guys how they run the layout.
If you want you can make a video and post it, I can have a look at it, and I can give you advise.
Manu - you say you use kick-up 0.5, so I advise to use anti-dive 0.5
Pink is pretty hard spring, try silver in front. Play with ackermann can also help.
Geeunit1014 - I advise on low grip track to use softer springs, makes the car more stable. 1/1.5 degree camber should work fine.
AZ416 - Some topdecks are slightly longer then other, so you should check how much you should sand, probably less then 0.5mm
Short camberlink give more aggressive car, long camber link is more stable and has less camber change therefor smoother to drive.
Stormperson - Seems you need a lot of steering throw on the highspeed corners. Try 1mm shim under the rear suspension blocksm this gives less traction in the rear, therefor more rotation in the corner. Harder front spring might help as well. The latest Vortex 2010 motors are running fine at high temperatures. I have been racing the whole winterseason in Thailand and motors got till almost 100 degree celsius but still running fine.
For stock motors you need a coolfan/heatsink combo on the motor, best is to try to blow the air into the motor so it cools the motorwires. For modified I used only a small fan.
Enrico - Maybe try to apply some additive such as Tire Tweak to soften the tyres. A tire that stays hard will wear out faster as it has more wheelspin.
In your additional info I don't see anything wrong.
I change my car not that often as many people think. For big races I normally change some parts that are little bit worn out but I not change my chassis that much.
Scribbler - thard.co.uk you find a lot of info.
AZ416 - thanks!
Jilles
If you want you can make a video and post it, I can have a look at it, and I can give you advise.
Manu - you say you use kick-up 0.5, so I advise to use anti-dive 0.5
Pink is pretty hard spring, try silver in front. Play with ackermann can also help.
Geeunit1014 - I advise on low grip track to use softer springs, makes the car more stable. 1/1.5 degree camber should work fine.
AZ416 - Some topdecks are slightly longer then other, so you should check how much you should sand, probably less then 0.5mm
Short camberlink give more aggressive car, long camber link is more stable and has less camber change therefor smoother to drive.
Stormperson - Seems you need a lot of steering throw on the highspeed corners. Try 1mm shim under the rear suspension blocksm this gives less traction in the rear, therefor more rotation in the corner. Harder front spring might help as well. The latest Vortex 2010 motors are running fine at high temperatures. I have been racing the whole winterseason in Thailand and motors got till almost 100 degree celsius but still running fine.
For stock motors you need a coolfan/heatsink combo on the motor, best is to try to blow the air into the motor so it cools the motorwires. For modified I used only a small fan.
Enrico - Maybe try to apply some additive such as Tire Tweak to soften the tyres. A tire that stays hard will wear out faster as it has more wheelspin.
In your additional info I don't see anything wrong.
I change my car not that often as many people think. For big races I normally change some parts that are little bit worn out but I not change my chassis that much.
Scribbler - thard.co.uk you find a lot of info.
AZ416 - thanks!
Jilles
05-03-2010, 03:18 AM
#1047
Hey Jilles
i see you are coming back to the cold side of the world
See you at ETS
it will be nice for you to see the guys at MACH
All the best Phil
i see you are coming back to the cold side of the world
See you at ETS
it will be nice for you to see the guys at MACH
All the best Phil
05-03-2010, 03:59 AM
#1048
thanks heaps jilles
much appreciated =)
much appreciated =)
05-03-2010, 04:12 AM
#1049
Hi jilles
I have been trying my 416x a coulpe
times now and I just don't like
the feel off it compaired to the
416 or the WE it just doesn't
seem to have the same turn in
or aggression on the track
any suggestions on setup
differances would be great
all 3 cars were setup the same
which are all based on your
set ups for our track here in Sydney
I can send you a setup
sheet if it helps
I have been trying my 416x a coulpe
times now and I just don't like
the feel off it compaired to the
416 or the WE it just doesn't
seem to have the same turn in
or aggression on the track
any suggestions on setup
differances would be great
all 3 cars were setup the same
which are all based on your
set ups for our track here in Sydney
I can send you a setup
sheet if it helps
05-03-2010, 04:59 AM
#1050
Phil - It's damn cold in Holland! Can't practise much now.
See you at the ETS!
Wayne - The 416X was designed with the diff more to the back to increase rear traction. You can try to raise the rear suspension block to 1mm.
Some stuff you can try to get more steering:
- run smaller rear wing, or LTC-R body
- more narrow car in front
- less toe-in rear, like 1A/1E
Hope this helps,
Jilles
See you at the ETS!
Wayne - The 416X was designed with the diff more to the back to increase rear traction. You can try to raise the rear suspension block to 1mm.
Some stuff you can try to get more steering:
- run smaller rear wing, or LTC-R body
- more narrow car in front
- less toe-in rear, like 1A/1E
Hope this helps,
Jilles