Solara thanks for the info on the battery thing. I have all 5000 packs and seems like with those you need to do a little modding to get them to fit. I read about the motor thing a little but not 100% clear on why some motors fit and some don't. I'm just not sure what I want to do at this time car wise. I will say that the design is very nice and potential I think could be huge. Sounds like TM would do a little more work on some of those little issues they could have even more people running the car.

Don't get me wrong...the battery part is EASY, just add spacer...it even came with the kit and instruction on how to do so...I just have plenty of ORION pack to waste and on last SAT running 17.5, I used only 1800 mah on a 6 minutes race...either I am very good with my throttle or the whole drive train is so smooth and easy on power...

About the motor issue...it is just difficult to MOUNT the motor, not adjusting the motor, it has plenty of room to move back and forth, just using NOVAK type motor is easier to mount compare to the DUO type motor (the end bell of these motor are different).

Overall....it is a great car, at least, it drives WAY BETTER then I expected or alot better then building it.

This car was supposed to be for brushed motors and round cells.
Its easy to see why things are the way they are if you think about it.
just go back right before lipos and all this brushless tech. came out.
and as for Lipos not fitting.... I believe every TM kit I got came with shims to put under the upper deck to make room for thicker packs.

Solara and John thanks for helping me with the info I need.:nod:

I'm going to go back and start reading thru all the posts to catch up some more on the car so I can gather more info.

YVW wyd, :D

As most of you know we had a great result at the Reedy Race. We have to say that we are overjoyed with Dave's driving and how far we have been able to develop the car in the last year. Also as you may know we get zero assistance in our race program from TM so it has been difficult to share all the info with all the racers. We will be posting on RC Tech and other forums to get everyone up to speed (pun intended).

E4 speed secrets part 1:

There has been a lot of discussion about freeing up the drive train. Most people point a finger at the belts. We have tested every belt we can find and are working with a manufacturer to make some special belts. Until then we can say that the stock belts work very well if they are adjusted properly. We can also say that the belts are not the problem. The problem is with the bearings more specifically the grease used by the factory and the quantity. We have developed a treatment for the bearings that really makes a difference:

We recommend that you soak the bearings in denatured alcohol for 4 to 6 hours. Denatured alcohol is highly flammable!!! Use with appropriate caution.
Do not substitute any other type of alcohol, as other types of alcohol are not an effective solvent for the grease that Team Magic uses in the bearings. Additionally, most types of alcohol will absorb moisture from the air, and will cause the bearings to rust. After soaking gently blow out the bearings with low pressure clean dry air to remove the alcohol and dissolved grease. Repeating this process is a normal part of maintaining the car between races. No oil is required the first time the bearings are cleaned, but it will be necessary to re-oil the bearings on subsequent cleanings. This single step is creates an amazing performance increase. Once the car is back together it is critical to adjust the belts properly. The easiest way is to set the trim on your transmitter so that the car is running at about 20% throttle. Tighten the tensioner until you hear the motor slow down. At that point you know that the belts are too tight and back off until you hear everything running free. We did this test with a tachometer reading the spur gear rpm and saw how dramatic the speed of the car drops when the belts are too tight. Just so that it is clear. The problem is not with belt drag. It is friction on the bearings. If you still have a problem with the side belt slipping it can be cured with our P/N WH10117. This fixes a design flaw in the kit and not only fixes belt slipping but makes the car solid under hard braking. One final word on WD-40. Don't use it on the belts or bearings. It seems like thin oil but it has two components. One is a light and very volatile oil solvent and once that evaporates it leave a gooey film on the bearings that creates a lot of drag. Using it on the belts might give you the feeling that you are making them more compliant but you are also making the teeth on the belt soft which leads to slipping which makes you tighten the tensioner which makes the car slower than leaving the belt dry.

If any of this is not clear or if you have any other questions please let us know

Sounds good to me. I'd thought of getting ceramic bearings for my D.E. ride but at what expense? Okay okay , 3 cars to repack wheel bearings and drive line.
Denatured Alcohol. Got it!;)

Well next weekend I will actually get my hands on an E4RS to look at. A buddy that is coming to my local track actually has a brand new one that he has never run so I will be able to go over the car and really see what its all about.:D If I like it we are going to work out a deal on it and I would be running it the following weekend.

Wolf Hobbies nice to see you taking charge with the car and developing it further. The design is very unique and potential seems to be very high. If I get the car I look forward to placing an order or two with you real soon.:nod: Just need to go over the car and see what spares I think I will need. I figure the normal stuff like, a arms, caster blocks, rear hubs and maybe some belts just to have spares.

I been slowly reading this thread. Wolf I have to say you have had some very nice parts made for the car and in at least the pics they look impressive and of high quality. Might have to order some of those.:lol:

looking for a E4
 

Hello guys,

I am thinking of buying a E4 I have to say that I have not read all the posts but I would like to know the bads and the good points of the car and how to make it better.

Does the KFactory parts really help?

I want to use on the car:

LRP 5300 lipo batteries, do they fit the car with any extra mods or do I have to modify something?;
LRP SXX Esc
LRP X12 4.0

Below there is a picture of the track in Brazil where I run, the longest part got 60m so you can have an idea of it.

http://www.aarcdoabc.com.br/public/p...taPanorama.jpg

Some guys tried to go for E4 on its beginning but most of them have leaved it the car seemed not to be so good at all, how is the performance of this car now compared with the HB's, Xrays and the others TCs?

Meeting wolf and dave from snowbirds, you can tell they are great people and have their minds always cranking away on new ideas. Thanks again for all the help. K factory parts work, but wolf makes and sells his own hubs knuckles and bumpers and even axles. There is a tab under the e4 scrollbar on the left of the webpage.

Hey wolf what classes are you guys signing up for this year at iic? any other e4 users going to head to vegas??

Below there is a picture of the track in Brazil where I run, the longest part got 60m so you can have an idea of it.

http://www.aarcdoabc.com.br/public/p...taPanorama.jpg

Huge track but ummm..... Not very imaginative. 180/Straight, repeat... yawn.

Thats actually not too bad if you include those far back corners. (Assuming they are part of the track)

Track don't look too hard. It does look like a nice place to race.

Selling my orginal E4 for $200 Run twice.

How come your selling it? Does it not work well. It is the rubber tire version and does it have a spool? Have any pics?

Yes I agree with you it is big, but with lots 180, but the guys that run the club at the moment are doing a lot of changes and benefits to the area (new bathroom area, pit area with proper electric installation and many other benefits)

The track is going to be changed in the future but till there....

Its awesome that they are making improvements. Always nice to have a great track to run at.

It's works really well I bought just to try it out but I'm sticking with my schumacher. I'll have some pics just PM me your E-mail.

Guys ! All you need to do is soak the bearings in Denatured Alcohol for 6 hrs
and you are good to go. And unless he has the Foam Spec car it has the versa diff up front. Spool/One Way

Hey John did you get to run your E4 back to back against your Photon? If so how do they compare in handling for you?

I haven't gotten my Photon yet, still waiting ...
But I have driven the TRF416WE and the Dave Erlich E4 and I have to say the E4 was better balanced and more predictable. It has a faster polar moment and really likes to rotate. With the double steering setup and the one way it drives very nice. The Tamiya on the other hand I think needs a better servo saver and is a bit loose when pushed too hard .

Today at the track I got to check out the E4. A buddy brought his to the track so I could check it out.

First thing I check was the drivetrain and it isn't as tight as I thought it would be. It was brand new with full full bearing grease. I'm sure it would be very easy to get the car as free as at least my TC5 is now with not much work. Like the easy removal of the spur grear. Very nice and would be easy to get all kinds of gear rations by chaning the spur so easily.

It will take a little work to get my 5000 lipo pack in the car and I did see why certain brushless motors fit easier than others. All minor stuff that actually TM could easily fix if they wanted to. Would be really nice it they did those small changes to make the car more brushless and lipo friendly. Other than that I thought the car would be very competitive with a little stick time on one.

Really like the overall layout of the car. Might get one for a 2nd car to mess with. Always like being a little different and I must say this car will cover the different part.:lol: Have to keep reading the thread ans save up some money and make a decision in the near future on if I'm going to pull the trigger.

Shimming up the upper deck makes room for the packs nicely . I added one millimeter under it (and the steering links) for my Reedy 5000 35c to fit. Works nicely. ;)

Hi guys,

I race nitro offroad and onroad cars for several years, and started to race 1/10 electric touring about 6 months ago with a used TC4, then passed to a Cyclone WCE and right now im with it and getting excellent results.

In my country electric touring its only 13.5 brushless + 6 NiMH cells + Rubber Tires on outdoor asphalt (next year we can use LIPO batts).

Now, after our last race yesterday, the local importer of Team Magic came to me and offered me a good deal/sponsorship (partial) to race the Team Magic E4RS 2009 as store driver. No other TM E4 right now exist in my country on racing scene because usually people dont want to be the first into test something new.

So basically the big question is ... IT WORTH THE CHANGE ?, i've been reading a lot here and i think would be a positive change of chassis for me, but i have contact with some Brazilian drivers and E4 experience in Brazil has been not too good, lot of drivers selling their cars due to the complexity of getting a good setup ...

Would be very glad to hear/read your opinnions,

thanks a lot,

Pato Concha
Southamerica

Complexity ?
Please ... this car is more than capable!
It is very important to soak the bearings in Denatured Alcohol for four to six hours. The kit set-up works pretty good . All you may need do is make a spring change. Try some good (known quantity) oil like Losi or Associated, 30 (300) or 35 (350) should do nicely. Roll centers are good but I recommend putting 2mm under the inner and outer rear link. I love my E4. :D

2 questions in the meanwhile :

- Can you tell me how much ball bearings the E4RS 2009 includes and in which measures ? (thinking on, in case i go with E4, go full ceramics right on the start).

- Any good pinion/spur combination to start with 13.5 brushless and 6 nimh cells on 48 pitch ?

thanks !

Pato Concha
Southamerica

I will p.m. Wolf and see if he can get the bearing sizes for you . As far as gearing goes that all depends on the size and style of track you are racing . Also the speedo and motor brand info may help as well. The internal ratio on the rubber version is 2.0588.

John, you are being so helpful man, thanks SO MUCH !!

Im about to accept the local TM importer deal and will pass from my Cyclone TC to TM E4RS 2009.

The electronics on the E4 will be the same as on my Cyclone, that is :

- Hitec High Speed Servo
- Novak GTB Speed
- Novak 13.5 SS PRO Motor
- Maxamps Batteries (NiMH 4.700mah, and since January 2010 will be allowed Lipos)
- Rubber Tires

This will be on Outdoor Asphalt racing.

Its possible to use 48P gears ?, i have a lot of pinion and spurs on 48P as im using 48P on my Cyclone.

Right now im on top 5 on stock 13.5 class, so i really hope the E4 can maintain myself on first spots on racing.

Any tip/comment will be greatly appreciated.

thanks a lot,

Pato Concha
Southamerica

TABUSHI

48p spur gears work fine, you will really enjoy this car alot if you do run it. Get yourself some good aftermarket bearings and soak them as they have said here let the belts break in and you are off and running with a great car!!

If I may say so Pato, I would replace that GTB speedo with a LRP SPX.
Set the profile on 7 and drop a few teeth on the pinion as this speed control advances the timing . The Tekin RS is also an excellent one to use. You may find yourself gearing more like 7:1 rather than 4.5:1 final drive. I let the smoke out of a 13.5 trying to keep up with the fellows that were using these speedos. Well worth the coin !

If you have a short track and a 13.5 on lipo you should use a totall ratio of about 4.36 to 4.4 on 48dp gear.
We on our track use that combo with 5 cels and 10.5 aswell as with 13.5 with lipo.
Speed is almost the same only the lipo has more stamina or what ever you call it:D
It's a great car.
Main difference between the 2008 and 2009 car are the steering system,top deck,hole under the motor and the battery tray.
At least that is what i have found out.
I run a 2008 car with the different steering system and that's it.
Our track times are almost simelar to the nitro guys.
They do 20.5 to 21.00 and the TC(electrical)do 21.7 to 20.7

cheers Roy
Ps gonna check the difference between the E4RS and the E4FS with the same setup and find out what suit's me best

Well guys, i love the challenges and im done with this, i just called the hobby shop owner and accepted the deal. First E4 cars will be in our country in 2 more weeks so i will have mine by that time.

I made couple calls and already sold my Cyclone lol !!, i have to deliver to new owner by the end of this week. I think i will miss next race but im not worried. I know was a risky move, but i love challenges and i know if i keep the cyclone i will be comparying too much and i prefer to go deep on the E4 rather than crying and comparing if im not get it right first time.

So, i jumped into the pool completely lol !!, just hope to do it right with the E4RS 2009.

thanks a lot for all, will post here as soon as i get the kit ... and will stay on questions during this days so please be patient with me guys !!

Mr Wolf, thanks a lot for your prior emails !, you rock !

cya !

Pato Concha
Southamerica

Don't waste your time/money on the GTB speedo and Novak 13.5 (unless they are exisitng and you are on budget)...I mean, if you are getting a sponcorship deal for the E4, you might as well have them to hook you up with a competition speedo and motor. Your choice like Speed Passion GT2, Tekin, KO, LRP....those are the top list for your speedo choice. Brushless motor like the old Trinity DUO (may be the Duo 2 if you dare to try), Tekin, LPR are also better then the good old Novak 13.5.

About your final drive...even with these motor, for outdoor, lets start at around 4.8 to 5 and check the temperature of the motor. Checking temperature of the brushless motor especially on E4 is a major factor. Because of the battery location (front in front of the motor), and it is different then the typical belt car like your previous owned Cyclone (on the side and do not have the battery blocking AIR to cool the motor)...I found the motor on E4 is a little bit higher then my Mi3.5 (compare to the same gearing)...so if I gear my Mi3.5 to 4.8....due to the motor temp, I will ended up gearing my E4 to 4.9....but again, I use the temp of the motor to dictate my final drive...not the speed of the car, unless you are willing to risk overheating the motor or speedo.

I prefer using BULLET plug type of LIPO...alot easier then those with the deans plug coming out from the top or the side of the battery, easier to fit inside the E4 due to its design.

Thanks for your words Solara.

At the beginning, i will try the Novak as im racing the Novak Setup on my Cyclone and the car is not going with electrics, so i will use my existing servo, speed and motor on my E4. Season ends by November and start again on January 2010 and in 2010 we will be allowed to race LIPO so i think maybe i can use the Novak GTB + SS PRO 13.5 motor for now, and start next season on new speed and motor, wich you thin would be the best bet on 13.5 brushless electronics ?.

Right now on my Novak motor im using a cooler (not fan, only aluminum cooler), that would be enough for the E4 or its better to go over a FAN solution ?.

On the Cyclone, im racing as low as 4.21 on final ratio, so would be a good idea to start on 4.5 at least on the E4 right ?. Right now im on gearchart.com looking for charts so i will order pinions and spurs on 48P today in order to be here by the time the E4 is in my hands, that and a full set of ceramic bearings to do a full change on the E4.

On the cooling part of the car, would this kind of coolers would be enough ? :

http://www.rcmart.com/catalog/images...04(lb)_001.jpg

http://www.rcmart.com/catalog/images...0146bu_001.jpg

http://www.rcmart.com/catalog/images...0152gm_001.jpg

IM very excited about all this.

Thanks a lot for your help,

Pato Concha
Southamerica

Before you go crazy about which heat sink and fan or fans you want to use...I don't want to disappoint you, E4RS does not allow TOO MUCH of room for you to mount the heat sink and fan, you can only mount the heat sink/fan pointing straight UP position, not to mention, hope your heat sink is not the full length type cause it will rub the rear little pulley.

The best heat sink to fit on E4RS is the K-Factory duo fan unit...HOWEVER, if you are using brushless motor (which you are)...your 3 wires, has to solder toward the REAR side of the motor instead of the shaft side like you used to do on your cyclone...

Get the car, mount your motor, and you will immediately realized what I was talking about...

I have not yet using any heat sink or fan to cool down my 17.5 E4RS...kinda good cause I want to see the actual temperature reading of the motor and I can push it to the limit. With a fan and heat sink...I might be able to gear 1 or 2 tooth more, but probably won't make too much of a different.

Awhile ago my friend did this to his E4RS just to hang it on the wall....I called it a ComEd edition E4RS...how many fans, plugs and wires can you found in this E4RS...? LOL


http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...S/IMG_0477.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...S/IMG_0478.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...S/IMG_0479.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...S/IMG_0480.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...S/IMG_0481.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...S/IMG_0482.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...S/IMG_0483.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...S/IMG_0484.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...S/IMG_0485.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...S/IMG_0486.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...S/IMG_0487.jpg

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...S/IMG_0488.jpg

WOW,

I got the idea Solara lol !!,

I will just order couple pinions and spurs to wait for my car.

The cooling solution i was using on my Cyclone was this one from Novak, so as a start i will keep it and try it :

http://www2.gpmd.com/imagel/n/lnovc5413.jpg

Thanks for all !!

cya,

Pato Concha
Chile - Southamerica

Man ! look at all the extra electronics everywhere on that thing . are you a packaging engineer? :lol:

Again, he is friend of mine and BUILDING MODLE is his hobby...you have to see how he CA all of my carbon fiber, round edge all the parts, CA in layer like 3-4 times with black marker sealing. Thats why he hardly ran his cars, mostly it is for display at our shop over @ HK.

I called it a ComED edition for a reason....:lol:

John can help you with setup....I used his outdoor setup but only using Tamiya Shocks with Xray springs and running on 17.5...using RP30 tires, work out great. I have also try the stock setup which is OK for parking lot track.

Here are the instruction, stock setup for E4RS, E4FS is 99% similar except it used thicker chassis and different tooth in pulleys.

http://www.rcmanufactory.com/

Instruction here...

http://www.rcstudy.com/TM//E4RS-manual.pdf