I had this problem with the E4. It would never center properly. Set the trim going down the straight and by the next lap it would need to be reset again. Then there was the problem with the strange twitchiness.

I think this is the problem with using the single arm steering pivot. Maybe you should try to use the dual arm steering instead. Also another thing I found was that it would be more stable if you use the rear hole for the steering pivot instead of the front hole. By doing so the steering has more Ackerman which helps calm the steering down.

Miss my E4 !!!
Its an awesome car !!!

I might go back to the dual bellcrank to test that theory. though i dont know if i have short enough turnbuckles for the REALLY short arms that system needs. another problem im having is a STUPID amount of chatter on power in steering. im running the spool/oneway in the front, through it did it with the lightweight spool as well.
tempted to see if my nt1 dogbones and axels fit as they dont seem to chatter in my nt1.

Chatter is a problem for many when running a spool. Although I've never experienced the problem when running 17.5 non-boost.

The fix for this is to use the double jointed CVDs. Don't know who's CVDs will work with the E4. I recently upgraded to the XRay one on my T2-009 because I'm now running a 5.5T on it. Check out the Spec R. They make them for various other cars. http://www.spec-r.com/default/index....a4db98129cd53a

Maybe ill shoot a vid and get feedback on what im hearing. I have a few different dogbones and axles for my nt1 i might try. No track setup for a week still. Id like to run a faster tc class but tc isnt a priority for our group at all. I might go o vancouver sometimes this next winter or it will sit on the ahelf for 8 months

Hey everyone! I am selling my E4 if anyone is interested:

http://www.rctech.net/forum/r-c-item...l#post10819185

Gonna get my first taste of open touring car in a few weeks her. Gonna be interesting swapping motors between heats though. Brushless motors dont seem to go in or come out without removing the right side center bulkhead upper brace.
Have it setup pretty well for stock, curious what fdr to start with for a 7.5 d3 with boost.
Never raced mod vefore so hope i dont have to do setup changes in addition to motor swaps between heats.

Just curious...:confused:
Why are you going to be changing motors between heats? Two classes? That's a lot of work and the setups most likely will be a bit different. Primarily weight transfer from front to rear will be greater in mod.

because i only have one chassis now having sold my other one to a new guy. gonna run stock and mod. its a parking lot track so the mod wont be crazy fast, probably in line with our nitro heat.
if i kept the other car, i might run it in stock and the e4 in mod but we dont actually run anything faster than 17.5 year round, so cost for another chassis + electronics. ect ect.

basiclly it comes down to the fact that im poor, only have a year under my belt, dont expect to place in the top in either class, just trying it out since it will be run at the event.

if you have suggestions on mod settings i should look at, im all ears. still learning how to setup cars period. my e4 is mostly kit, but its a mishmash of e4 parts. im running the same springs in all corners, the short ones. 35wt in all corners with zero rebound. downstop 6f 5r measured from the bottoms of the hub carriers. 1.5 camber all around. most of the mounting points are stock, but i raised the rear rollcenter up a little vs the front. car rolls through corners very smoothly and crisply off throttle. pushes a little on throttle.

practice in vrc with the race2the worlds has changed my driving style somewhat too. im starting to drive it more point and shoot than i used to, just power into corner and scrub off speed through. still a bit to learn though. first year of racing. racing guys doing it for decades lol.

i dont expect to do well in mod, the guys doing it are coming from somewhere else and they run it all the time.

I raced mod and 17.5 on a parking lot track. The two are night and day. The weight transfer is tremendous in mod and I use a 5.5 with no boost running a 7.0 FDR. 7.5 with boost would be no different. The most noticeable difference between mod and 17.5 is tire wear. A new set of tires running 17.5 can last you for months, while that same set in mod will only last you 2-3 race days.

I guess ill just have to see how it goes. I know i wont be he only one motor swapping. Wont know til my 7.5 shows up and i give it a go.

One other thing to consider is gear changes. you will need to swap spur gears as well unless you are running 17.5 boosted. The E4 doesn't have much room for motor adjustment. By the way I still have my E4 stuff lying around if you are interested. The primary car has a custom 2mm chassis without the battery tray cutout. It is awesome in no boost classes.


I still have a few battery trays left if anyone is interested.:p

I think the e4 is the last used touring car for me. Very happy with it but with all the upgrades and spares i have now, could have got into a photon ex or 6.1.

Would be interested in the custom chassis if you have one though. Battery tray is a huge pia.

Rick,

I was thining of running my TEAM E4 on stock with shorty lipo pack are you able to design a chassis for it?

I think Team Magic E4 has a lot of potential just need some tweaking....

Hey Kim,
I'll ponder that idea. It will just take some tweaking of the current design I have.
I have a new CNC router table coming soon and I hope to be cutting some chassis as well as some other stuff by mid July.:nod:

id be interested in aquiring a chassis if its not too crazy expensive. have you devised a way to change batteries semi quickly with it? id be fine, but my gens lipos get bunged up on the rear battery tray bulkhead, i have to loosten the screws off and really push to get the thing to fall out. even a revised battery tray that moves the thing forward like.. 2-3mm would be nice.

otherwise, im very happy with the car so far. i had it mostly setup to kit, just raised the rear rollcenter slightly and took out some droop. car stays nice and flat very stable and easy to drive. i can sell running it til i run out of parts or buy a brand new car, but still keep it around for a good while.

http://www.rctech.net/forum/attachme..._0594-comp.jpg

Thats an interesting set-up if you have some way of getting the battery in and out of it. If there was a decent graphite chassis kit upgrade, I would go for that to upgrade my E4JS. Right now it just sits.

Shorty lipo with dual crank steering posts on the lower chassis.... even better.

oooh, does your lipo tray work any better than the wolf hobbies one?easier to insert/remove?

If you are referring to the steel tray from Wolf, yes...
My tray is made from aluminum and allows the battery to sit about 1mm lower in the chassis. Those that have bought it can attest to how well it works. It,s a bit more flexible too, so it doesn't bind up the chassis as the steel version does.
I also made some shock tower spacers as well which helps to add some stability to the rear end.

I'll think about doing another chassis conversion now that I will have a way to produce it in low quantity without breaking the bank. I like the chassis mounted dual crank steering idea along with a new top plate.

As far as battery swaps go with the tray less design, I just roll off the side belt and slide the battery out sideways. No big deal...:nod: Mostly I just leave the battery in and charge it between rounds. That's the nice thing about LiPo batteries vs Nickle based batteries.

one thing you could try to make is a cheaper upper bulkhead. i was thinking of making the flats out of CF, and the upright shock tower retainers out of acetel or some cheap to get, easy to machine plastic.
something that doesnt cost $70 lol.

dont see how the bellcrank could fit on the lower deck with the placement of the third belt in relation to the battery. but if you were interested in making chassis plates, some kind of hardware retainment for the battery would be nice. maybe hard plastic blocks to hold the batter steady, and a thumbscrew retainer that lets you slide it out fromt he belt side.

one thing i havent seen tried was putting the bellcrank in front of the chassis using a pushrod to activate similar to nitro car brakes. kinda ugly, but makes a lot more room in the middle of the car.

I'll look at the bulkhead solution and I noticed the issue with the front belt but I think I can come up with something that's at least better than using the top deck for the steering assembly. If I go the route of designing in the use of a shorty pack, I may have more room to work with.

Thanks for your input, all is appreciated.:nod:

You could raise the middle pully up to make room for dual bellcrank below it or lower it with grooves in the chassis to have it above using stand offs. Above is better prob as it would be more in line with the steering.

Rick,

With the shorty pack and dual steering bell crank is the ticket and gear diff... I know you can come up with an idea... I really wanted to give the E4 another try... But anyways got rid of my TC6 and switch to Taimya 417x... ;)

Oh really?
The 417 is a nice car...
I figure, why not revisit the E4 for the fun of it. I've got plenty of parts so why not play around with some ideas. First I need to get my 1/8th pan car running then I will look into other projects.

Geardif would be complex to machine on a desktoP mill. Better trying to convert an xray or similar to fit.
Shorty pack wont make any more room for the dual bellcrank with he middle shaft carrier in the way.

Right, but I may be able to incorporate the steering into a new mid shaft carrier block.

looks to me like you can lose almost 5mm if you slot the chassis, and drop the shaft down so the pully follows the bottom line of the chassis. maybe attach the tensioner to the block somehow. or sandwich one between the bulkheads and the top deck.

maybe you could use the upper deck support stand offs to mount a stubby dual bellcrank, or use shorter ones. thinking ntc3 swingrack.

ygpm

trying to set my e4 up a little better for the parking lot.
which is the best place to take the rear downstop measurement? and is there any meaning to the rear hub carrier numbers? i have some plastic ones with 1 and 2 on them, short of mounting them up and checking on my setup station, are they different?

open to suggestions on setup. our track is somewhat smooth but has some variations. sprayed with soda.
was running mostly kit settings on 32's but finding the car a little sluggish mid corner and exit.

this will also be my first weekend with the D3 out, so curious how that will work. my lrp seems to have great rip out of the corner, dispite the 3.6 fdr, but when it gets up to speed, you can see it kind of fall off like it wants to go more but its being held back..

If anyone is looking for a decent, optioned e4, i might be selling mine. Has yodog spacer, kfactory upper bulkheads, f/r knuckles and lots of spares. Id prob try to get $200 obo. Not desperate. Just wanna try something else, this time brand new.

Well guys, here are some preliminary thoughts on redesigning the E4 layout with a new chassis.
It will now have the room for a dual crank steering and will accommodate a shorty pack with plenty of placement adjustability for the best balance.
I got a lot of work to do but it's a start.:D

Hello !

Great job for the chassis layout.

But to be honest; if the target is to finish with a "almost" standard layout (I know, the motor still remains on center) with battery on the right and electronics on the left, I can't really understand where would be the advantage to continue with the E4 3 belted basis.

There are still some disadvantages:
-More weight (extra belt, bearings, axle, holder and screws).
-Wrong flex (this is the most important problem on the E4, and why we changed to the E4RS II).
-Delay (the front end always get power with a little delay vs the rear end, due to the 3 belts, this is a problem with high power motors).
-More sources of problems (especially with the side belt which is very exposed).

I've been a huge supporter of the 3 belts layout during two years, and worked a lot with Kevin Ting @ Team Magic to improve it. We realized together a very modified prototype for the 2011 season to completely change the flex problematic. When Kevin told me he will switch to a standard 2 belts layout, I was very disappointed about that, as I was sure we could continue to develop the 3 belt car. So, I considered to switch to the AE TC6 (I'm working for the Swiss distributor of AE and TM, so I have the choice). But when I got the E4RS II drawings and discussing with Kevin about many little details, I understood this car isn't the 98297392th "remake" of many other cars. Now, after 10 months with the E4RS II, I can say the difference of performance between the E4RS (even with my prototype) is simply huge. I have no regrets about the switch from 3 belts layout to the 2 one.

But, I can perfectly understand how passionate many E4 users could be about the 3 belts design. We all thought at one time or another that we had something special (and it does), and we loved it. But right now, I'm very happy to work on the E4RS II, which is also a special car, even if it seems very similar to others.

nice prelim. though i agree that changing the placement of the crap on the car defeats the purpose a little. all i would do is raise the front center pully up to top deck height, and put the dual bellcrank where the pully used to be on main chassis level. or a dual bellcrank from another car that allows sideways servo placement.

i dont have your cad skills, hard to explain, unless i were to maybe take a pic of my e4 will proposed equipement layout? if shorty pack is a main design aspect, then you have lots of room for steering by moving the pully.

ps, have you had a chance to compare the e4rs2 directly to the tc6? im on the fence about my next tc. leaning to the vbc but also tc6.1 and e4rs2.

i really like some of the elements team magic brings to the table, but the fragility of some of the plastics is no good on my e4. i dont like reliance on super expensive aftermarket just to finish a race.
with that said, my fully optioned e4rs is actually a damn nice car to drive. very high corner speeds and stablity. though not as much speed on the straight in our spec class. the steering seems tempermental is my only real quam. any little tap and it goes out of whack =(

Thanks for your response,
I actually switched to the TC6 a couple of years ago but still have all my E4 stuff laying around. Some of the guys have been asking for a viable conversion that will improve the chassis flex issues and eliminate the battery tray configuration.
What you see with this design is just some ideas I had about keeping the central motor position and fixing some of the stuff many drivers have been complaining about. Since I already had the stock layout modeled, I figured, why not play around with some alternative configurations in SW.
Another idea I was pondering is a similar layout like the old HPI RS4 which had a centrally mounted motor and 2 belts just updated with the E4 suspension and a transverse mounted, shorty battery pack.
Like I said before, it's just some ideas.:D:D:D:D

I know what you mean, valk.
Basically swapping the pulley block with the steering assembly.
I could probably do that with a new top deck and different belts.
I'll look at that...too.

Hello,

We have team drivers on both cars (TC6.1 and E4RS II). I personally think the E4RS II is more "easy" to tune. About plastic parts: yes, the TM plastic on E4 3 belts series was a problem. I asked many time TM to change the plastic compound for a harder one, but it wasn't possible without changing the molds. Kevin decided to change the plastics for the E4RS II. They are for sure a lot more durable, and there is no comparison possible between the two plastic compounds of the E4 3 belts and the E4RS II.

I think an interesting way for the flex is to change the rear upper deck fixation.

May be you can create a "two part" upper deck:
Part 1: a simple graphite plate, like a "I" between the two rear aluminium holders.
Part 2: a revised upper deck, without the " \ / " parts on the rear which is very problematic.

I had been pondering something along the same idea. I really don't like how asymmetrical the rear bulkheads are from side to side. It's as if chassis flex was of no concern when the E4 was initially designed. I'm tempted to redesign the left side bulkhead so that they both mount to the chassis identically. I have acces to our machine shop and prototyping is not too difficult, I'm just trying to concentrate on another car design at this time as well. It's a 1/8th scale electric pan car chassis that should prove to be much more fun on the bigger tracks especially in Europe. I understand quite a few people like to run pro10 cars but I think the speeds are a little scary for such a small car.

Speeds arn't the problem with the Pro10 cars.
We run them with 2S and 10.5 boosted and reach about 105KM/H on the bigger nitro tracks without losing controll of the car.
This is with the Pro10 designed bodies.
If you take the mod Pro10 guys, well it is different.
They use the 235MM Nitro bodyshell to get the downforce to keep the car on track.
This year one of the Pro10 stock racers(10.5 motor) did a 14.079 at Rucphen and the mod guys(the fastest present) did a 13.89
Speed difference isn't that big.
The power of the mod apose to the stock is huge and there fore the main factor for controling the cars.
Yodog, keep up the good work on the old trusty E4;)
When you finish the 1:8 electrical car and need test drivers, give me a hauler:D

regards Roy