rockin_bob

At our asphalt track, we have a pretty good group of VTA racers. This ain't their 1st rodeo. My friend (good racer, real good) from out of town stops in a couple times a year and beats our best by a lap or more. We all have the good electronics and know what to do with them. His set-ups are better, he drives better. He is a "Sponsored Driver". Maby we should disallow sponsored drivers from VTA since that is, in my mind, not the "Spirit" of the class.

zake540

iTrader: (19)

You forgot about the super fast servo $100.

Seriously I really don't see anyone crying here. I just see people just saying there opinions.

DARKSIDE

iTrader: (2)

amazing...really amazing that all this typing is going on...I wasnt going to reply to the post/subject but I got several pm's about it...so here is my take..

1st...the current rules work if you stay within the spirit...that means keep your speeds down...the race director can make any call on this he/she feels good about and that is fair...this will not effect outta towners, that visit your track if they are aware of the "restrictions/club rules"...keep ppl posted..

2nd...asking ppl to not buy newer speedos isnt going to work...I have personally push the Novak Havok 21.5 on any and everyone asking about this class....but if they buy a SPX...cause they can or want the best..who is to say they cant...limit the advanced timing settings on the speedos is also a method that will slow them down to "normal" speeds...before long every co. will have speedos with advanced timing...

3rd...no need to run off the nubs before they get started...run divisions..pro,sportsman,rookie,jr..ect...limit what goes into each class..and if your track doesnt have enough to run divisions, your local racers need to bring his car down to their speeds...when we have small turn-outs...my radio gets turned down to keep it even..and I dont have a problem with it..

fixing the issues of speeds are not going to be easy...but here are some of our methods that have worked almost 2 years....

set higher FDR
dyno cars to 19,000 rpm
set 24mph speed limit..mathmatically even with 27/4cell
No dynamic timing modes allowed
raise weight limit
make divisions for different combos..ie..MCC 09'
1) Expert T/A (Straight USVTA rules, no speed limit or motor RPM limit)
2) Sportsman T/A (Local rules apply; max. speed and motor RPM limits)
3) Junior T/A (Local rules apply; max. speed and motor RPM limits)
cheap radar traps
break out class...set a fast lap max...

and IMO the easiest way is to talk to the racers at your local track that really understand the class.....like our logo says....FUN,FAIR,CHEAP


PS....for those that also think that the class is too fast and you think its like 17.5 rubber tire...the TCR guys use advanced timing speedos as well...every class from this point on rather it be 18th scale to 8th scale will take a step forward in speed...there is no going backwards in technology..but we can limit what we race and the feel of the cars when it comes to speeds..

brushless and lipos are the standard...and soon adv esc's will be too...everything is moving forward..PERIOD..

so everybody be cool and lets get some testing done and see what next year brings...IM VTA 4LIFE..

cya...Myron "BATTMAN" Kinnard

Scottrik

iTrader: (261)

I was running my el cheapo bought used for $20 Z590 servo and it was (finally) just too slow at 1s even with the 5v output booster.

I will probably try a couple different things if 1s is how VTA goes:

1) spend $30 (instead of $6) for a Novak booster as they have a 6v output, or

2) use one of the 2-3 somewhat faster digital servos I've picked up (all used) along the way (I think I've got a JR 8800 and an 8850, neither of which cost $100 new I don't think). I think Tower has the Futaba brushless 351 servo at under $90 now...then take off their constant "if your order is this much take off $X" offer.

rockin_bob

I like all that "Darkside" says way better. His way didn't cost me a dime in parts and no more testing required.Thanks "Dark".

DARKSIDE

iTrader: (2)

thanks...oh snap, I almost forgot my plug...hu huhmmm...

2 DAYS LEFT BEFOR THE 24HR SCALE TRANS-AM ENDURO RACE AT THUNDER RC RACEWAY IN NASHVILLE TN ON AUGUST 29TH WITH DOORS OPEN AT 8AM QUALS AT 12NOON AND RACE AT 2PM.....

ALSO DONT FORGET TO COME RACE WITH US FRIDAY NITE AT 7PM ON THE NEW LAYOUT TO GET THE EXTRA TRACK TIME AND LAPS

HERE ARE SOME PICS OF TEAM DARK MONEY...CYA

robk

iTrader: (22)

Ok, everyone needs to slow down.

As I indicated everything is not written in stone. However, it is pretty obvious that the cars are getting very fast. This is especially noticeable on big outdoor tracks where the timing boost comes on down the straight.

I'm not going to ask tracks to buy radar guns and start timing guys going down the back straight. Dynoing motors is not practical. I want to make things simple as possible. Unfortunately, that is the hard part.

The speedos are a problem. I really don't think specing the speedo is a great idea, especially if it becomes something that is useful only in vta. Even the 21.5 is popular in oval racing, and could be sold if it came to that. As I said before, there needs to be a lot more testing. Maybe the 1s helps this problem, maybe there is no difference At a minimum the cars would be slower, which is a start.

Another thing that is in line for some evaluation is a higher FDR. I only worry that this is going to play into the timing issue, as I think that it makes the timing an even bigger advantage.

The way I see it is that 50% of you guys would not be running the class if it was 4 cell 27t. As soon as lipo came in, a ton of people got into it. Few people wanted to put the time and effort into the old stuff anymore. The only reason we went to 2s and 21.5 was to make lipo a viable option, and expand participation. This worked, and was fine until the electronics progressed so rapidly.

Someone is going to be upset by the time this is through. I want to make this work for the majority of racers who have a good time in the class. Maybe it's not a beginner's class, but it is one where you should not get run over like you do in 13.5 or 17.5. It should be a class where the cars are easier to control, and are not on the ragged edge. It should be about close racing, from top to bottom.

liljohn1064

iTrader: (17)

As technology increases, speed increases. The 21.5 is close to matching a 17.5 lap for lap. A couple 10ths on a tight track. Put touring tires on and they'll probably be a lot closer. I started in this class a year ago with a 17.5 and 4 cells and no matter how well I drove, I finished near or dead last in the main I drove myself into. So I went 21.5 and caught and passed the leaders. Now I'm getting mine handed to me again this fall because I don't have the latest speedo. Tell me I need to keep laying out cash to compete and this isn't a beginner class. It sure is looking that way. Well, what is the beginner class for touring car? Not mini. Completely different characteristics. Lipo is here to stay, but if this really goes back to its roots, it will be a low voltage, intentionally slow, but fun to race class. I have no problem going to 1S 17.5 and bring on the programmable era. This is THE slowest class at our track and hopefully will stay that way.

Daddy'o

Thanks Alex!

Looks like someone is making progress... I was visitor #8 on the future site today!

Now back to reading... you folks have covered a lot of ground in 2 days!

Daddy-o

Greg Sharpe

iTrader: (15)

VTA is the slowest class at 2 of the 3 tracks near me. I could buy an entire Mini Cooper setup to race at the third track, but those cars don't bang doors as well as a 210mm Peach colored Camaro, just ask Mike Haynes.
1c is used in 1/12, where many of the 4cell/27T equipment originally came from. 1c is also used in WGT. Those classes are run all around my area of the country.
But VTA can be a great beginner class that uses a chassis the beginner can take to the next level, electronics that are used in other on/off-road classes, and develops setup and driving skills on the same chassis they can take to the next level. The same cannot be said for Mabuchis and brushed ESCs found in ....Minis for example. Do you think VTA should end up faster than 17.5, the very class VTA was created to get away from?
The important concept is that any chassis can go slow, but only the very best can win a field of deep talent when the speeds go up, as in to the 17.5 laptimes. No disrespect to Darkside's dinosaur, but when his car runs 17.5 laptimes driven by factory drivers, the apocolypse would have already arrived. There's a good reason the Vegas/Birds/Cleveland 17.5 class doesn't have any shaft driven entries.
The rules should be a collective compromise. When VTA was 1450g and the 17.5 class was heavier, my track actually had quicker VTA lap times.
Being sponsored couldn't have anything to do with the results, as there is nothing a sponsored driver can bring to the situation that you couldn't within the established rules. I believe you may have been referring to his skills, which for the record, are not available from any sponsor.
That's because you haven't figured out how to get the most traction from the VTA tires yet. Once you do figure that out, have fun wearing out a set every three race days. At 17.5 speeds without any downforce to speak of, we need all the traction these tires can be coaxed to provide. However, if we could slow these cars back down the tire wear wouldn't be as bad, nor would we have to use certain tire sauces that tend to eat tires (because we wouldn't need the additional traction, and excessive gooeyness would bind the cars up at slower speeds).

Daddy'o

Andy,

Thanks for asking!

One piece vs. two piece - indifferent as long as it is realistic and is reasonably durable

A, Think you have hit a good mix of realism vs. practicality. 190MM bodies wouldn't be bad...

Light buckets... maybe an aftermarket item, but not something I would personally use often. Would rather see the energy put into new bodies.

Speaking of new bodies:

'66 Mustang Notchback
Any first generation Pontiac Firebird
Some Cougars would be nice to.

Thanks again for seeking some input.

Daddy-o

RCFREAK

iTrader: (20)

i just found a picture from last year.... had to post it. Talk about close racing. Story is the 3rd car was actually on the inside and the 2 front cars were just i little too wide..... SURE!!! thats why he gets the Nickname "NO LIFT"

you check it out for yourself.

Daddy'o

+1 on that Three! Tossing an HPI Cup Racer with a Datsun 510 body in the mix... that'd be cool and super realistic!

ODB

iTrader: (2)

It has been mentioned before, but breakout racing is what is needed in VTA. Then you can run any speedo, motor, battery, FDR, etc. It seems to get shot down though because it penalizes a perfect lap, but you should set your car up to hit the breakout time with a perfect lap, and then aim for consistency, rather than looking for loopholes to find that hidden extra speed in order to get that edge over the field, defeating the spirit of VTA.

liljohn1064

iTrader: (17)

Good debate the last 2 or 3 days. Made work go much faster.

To all who are going, good luck this weekend at the Enduro!