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Old 08-27-2009, 06:50 PM   #5941
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At our asphalt track, we have a pretty good group of VTA racers. This ain't their 1st rodeo. My friend (good racer, real good) from out of town stops in a couple times a year and beats our best by a lap or more. We all have the good electronics and know what to do with them. His set-ups are better, he drives better. He is a "Sponsored Driver". Maby we should disallow sponsored drivers from VTA since that is, in my mind, not the "Spirit" of the class.
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Old 08-27-2009, 06:53 PM   #5942
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OK, geez, I'm such a dishonest, misleading bastard...

A booster is $6.

The Spektrum capacitor is $5

We're up to $66 now...STILL less than A racing pack used to cost us just a year or two ago AND that one battery/booster/capacitor replaces the need for 3-4 of those expensive packs. And IF a change is enacted, still fully a year away.

Folks--you're crying before you've been "burnt". And unreasonably so. Period.

As far as your charger...guess you should have bought a good one. I've got 3 different LiPo chargers here and every one of 'em will charge 1s LiPo. I'd FURTHER note that every one was purchased before we even had 1s LiPo for racing.

You forgot about the super fast servo $100.

Seriously I really don't see anyone crying here. I just see people just saying there opinions.
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Old 08-27-2009, 06:55 PM   #5943
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amazing...really amazing that all this typing is going on...I wasnt going to reply to the post/subject but I got several pm's about it...so here is my take..

1st...the current rules work if you stay within the spirit...that means keep your speeds down...the race director can make any call on this he/she feels good about and that is fair...this will not effect outta towners, that visit your track if they are aware of the "restrictions/club rules"...keep ppl posted..

2nd...asking ppl to not buy newer speedos isnt going to work...I have personally push the Novak Havok 21.5 on any and everyone asking about this class....but if they buy a SPX...cause they can or want the best..who is to say they cant...limit the advanced timing settings on the speedos is also a method that will slow them down to "normal" speeds...before long every co. will have speedos with advanced timing...

3rd...no need to run off the nubs before they get started...run divisions..pro,sportsman,rookie,jr..ect...limit what goes into each class..and if your track doesnt have enough to run divisions, your local racers need to bring his car down to their speeds...when we have small turn-outs...my radio gets turned down to keep it even..and I dont have a problem with it..

fixing the issues of speeds are not going to be easy...but here are some of our methods that have worked almost 2 years....

set higher FDR
dyno cars to 19,000 rpm
set 24mph speed limit..mathmatically even with 27/4cell
No dynamic timing modes allowed
raise weight limit
make divisions for different combos..ie..MCC 09'
1) Expert T/A (Straight USVTA rules, no speed limit or motor RPM limit)
2) Sportsman T/A (Local rules apply; max. speed and motor RPM limits)
3) Junior T/A (Local rules apply; max. speed and motor RPM limits)
cheap radar traps
break out class...set a fast lap max...

and IMO the easiest way is to talk to the racers at your local track that really understand the class.....like our logo says....FUN,FAIR,CHEAP


PS....for those that also think that the class is too fast and you think its like 17.5 rubber tire...the TCR guys use advanced timing speedos as well...every class from this point on rather it be 18th scale to 8th scale will take a step forward in speed...there is no going backwards in technology..but we can limit what we race and the feel of the cars when it comes to speeds..

brushless and lipos are the standard...and soon adv esc's will be too...everything is moving forward..PERIOD..

so everybody be cool and lets get some testing done and see what next year brings...IM VTA 4LIFE..

cya...Myron "BATTMAN" Kinnard
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Last edited by DARKSIDE; 08-27-2009 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 08-27-2009, 06:59 PM   #5944
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I was running my el cheapo bought used for $20 Z590 servo and it was (finally) just too slow at 1s even with the 5v output booster.

I will probably try a couple different things if 1s is how VTA goes:

1) spend $30 (instead of $6) for a Novak booster as they have a 6v output, or

2) use one of the 2-3 somewhat faster digital servos I've picked up (all used) along the way (I think I've got a JR 8800 and an 8850, neither of which cost $100 new I don't think). I think Tower has the Futaba brushless 351 servo at under $90 now...then take off their constant "if your order is this much take off $X" offer.
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Old 08-27-2009, 06:59 PM   #5945
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I like all that "Darkside" says way better. His way didn't cost me a dime in parts and no more testing required.Thanks "Dark".
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Old 08-27-2009, 07:21 PM   #5946
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Originally Posted by rockin_bob View Post
I like all that "Darkside" says way better. His way didn't cost me a dime in parts and no more testing required.Thanks "Dark".
thanks...oh snap, I almost forgot my plug...hu huhmmm...

2 DAYS LEFT BEFOR THE 24HR SCALE TRANS-AM ENDURO RACE AT THUNDER RC RACEWAY IN NASHVILLE TN ON AUGUST 29TH WITH DOORS OPEN AT 8AM QUALS AT 12NOON AND RACE AT 2PM.....

ALSO DONT FORGET TO COME RACE WITH US FRIDAY NITE AT 7PM ON THE NEW LAYOUT TO GET THE EXTRA TRACK TIME AND LAPS

HERE ARE SOME PICS OF TEAM DARK MONEY...CYA
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U.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing-darkside-racing-031.jpg   U.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing-darkside-racing-034.jpg   U.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing-darkside-racing-035.jpg   U.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing-darkside-racing-037.jpg   U.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing-darkside-racing-033.jpg  

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Old 08-27-2009, 07:55 PM   #5947
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Ok, everyone needs to slow down.

As I indicated everything is not written in stone. However, it is pretty obvious that the cars are getting very fast. This is especially noticeable on big outdoor tracks where the timing boost comes on down the straight.

I'm not going to ask tracks to buy radar guns and start timing guys going down the back straight. Dynoing motors is not practical. I want to make things simple as possible. Unfortunately, that is the hard part.

The speedos are a problem. I really don't think specing the speedo is a great idea, especially if it becomes something that is useful only in vta. Even the 21.5 is popular in oval racing, and could be sold if it came to that. As I said before, there needs to be a lot more testing. Maybe the 1s helps this problem, maybe there is no difference At a minimum the cars would be slower, which is a start.

Another thing that is in line for some evaluation is a higher FDR. I only worry that this is going to play into the timing issue, as I think that it makes the timing an even bigger advantage.

The way I see it is that 50% of you guys would not be running the class if it was 4 cell 27t. As soon as lipo came in, a ton of people got into it. Few people wanted to put the time and effort into the old stuff anymore. The only reason we went to 2s and 21.5 was to make lipo a viable option, and expand participation. This worked, and was fine until the electronics progressed so rapidly.

Someone is going to be upset by the time this is through. I want to make this work for the majority of racers who have a good time in the class. Maybe it's not a beginner's class, but it is one where you should not get run over like you do in 13.5 or 17.5. It should be a class where the cars are easier to control, and are not on the ragged edge. It should be about close racing, from top to bottom.
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:01 PM   #5948
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As technology increases, speed increases. The 21.5 is close to matching a 17.5 lap for lap. A couple 10ths on a tight track. Put touring tires on and they'll probably be a lot closer. I started in this class a year ago with a 17.5 and 4 cells and no matter how well I drove, I finished near or dead last in the main I drove myself into. So I went 21.5 and caught and passed the leaders. Now I'm getting mine handed to me again this fall because I don't have the latest speedo. Tell me I need to keep laying out cash to compete and this isn't a beginner class. It sure is looking that way. Well, what is the beginner class for touring car? Not mini. Completely different characteristics. Lipo is here to stay, but if this really goes back to its roots, it will be a low voltage, intentionally slow, but fun to race class. I have no problem going to 1S 17.5 and bring on the programmable era. This is THE slowest class at our track and hopefully will stay that way.
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:24 PM   #5949
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Thanks Alex!

Looks like someone is making progress... I was visitor #8 on the future site today!

Now back to reading... you folks have covered a lot of ground in 2 days!

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Old 08-27-2009, 08:34 PM   #5950
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Originally Posted by rockin_bob View Post
IMO it's not broke. Don't fix it. I like VTA rules just like they are. For those who want to go slower, there are slower classes. GT3, mini cooper to name 2. Since the rules originally came about, VTA revived on-road in many parts of the country. As soon as rules get changed, racers are lost. I know I personally don't want to have to buy more products. New batteries, voltage boosters, lead, no thank you. Not a team driver. Traxxas, Losi, Associated, HPI, Tamiya, SMS, OU812.
VTA is the slowest class at 2 of the 3 tracks near me. I could buy an entire Mini Cooper setup to race at the third track, but those cars don't bang doors as well as a 210mm Peach colored Camaro, just ask Mike Haynes.
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$55 battery that is useless in anything else and you didn't sat anything about the voltage booster. Since to you, it's no big deal, then I suppose it would be no big deal for you to buy everybody one of each.
1c is used in 1/12, where many of the 4cell/27T equipment originally came from. 1c is also used in WGT. Those classes are run all around my area of the country.
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VTA is not a beginners class. As mentioned above, there are slower classes for novice racers already in place. Why do you need a half dozen boosters at a time? Are they that reliable? Or do you need a half dozer per car?
But VTA can be a great beginner class that uses a chassis the beginner can take to the next level, electronics that are used in other on/off-road classes, and develops setup and driving skills on the same chassis they can take to the next level. The same cannot be said for Mabuchis and brushed ESCs found in ....Minis for example. Do you think VTA should end up faster than 17.5, the very class VTA was created to get away from?
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Who was here first. So it was intended to bring out old touring car chassis, or so you say. Tell me what old chassis did the top 5 drivers drive in the last big VTA race you went to. I'm sure you were there also. Does that mean that the latest chassis on the market are disallowed by your take in the inception of the class.
The important concept is that any chassis can go slow, but only the very best can win a field of deep talent when the speeds go up, as in to the 17.5 laptimes. No disrespect to Darkside's dinosaur, but when his car runs 17.5 laptimes driven by factory drivers, the apocolypse would have already arrived. There's a good reason the Vegas/Birds/Cleveland 17.5 class doesn't have any shaft driven entries.
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At our track, 17.5 stock is a second a lap faster than VTA. Seems just right to me.
The rules should be a collective compromise. When VTA was 1450g and the 17.5 class was heavier, my track actually had quicker VTA lap times.
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At our asphalt track, we have a pretty good group of VTA racers. This ain't their 1st rodeo. My friend (good racer, real good) from out of town stops in a couple times a year and beats our best by a lap or more. We all have the good electronics and know what to do with them. His set-ups are better, he drives better. He is a "Sponsored Driver". Maby we should disallow sponsored drivers from VTA since that is, in my mind, not the "Spirit" of the class.
Being sponsored couldn't have anything to do with the results, as there is nothing a sponsored driver can bring to the situation that you couldn't within the established rules. I believe you may have been referring to his skills, which for the record, are not available from any sponsor.
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I like all that "Darkside" says way better. His way didn't cost me a dime in parts and no more testing required. Thanks "Dark".
That's because you haven't figured out how to get the most traction from the VTA tires yet. Once you do figure that out, have fun wearing out a set every three race days. At 17.5 speeds without any downforce to speak of, we need all the traction these tires can be coaxed to provide. However, if we could slow these cars back down the tire wear wouldn't be as bad, nor would we have to use certain tire sauces that tend to eat tires (because we wouldn't need the additional traction, and excessive gooeyness would bind the cars up at slower speeds).
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:48 PM   #5951
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Hi everyone,

A couple of questions about HPI Vintage TA bodies:

Do you have a preference based solely on whether a body is a one piece body (68 Camaro) or a two piece body (Mustang and Cuda)?

What would you like to see in future bodies?
a. Same level of performance and detail/realism as the current bodies
b. More realistic details even at the cost of performance
c. More performance at the cost of realistic details

Would Lexan light buckets be a welcome addition to the bodies?

Thanks,

AndyH
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Andy,

Thanks for asking!

One piece vs. two piece - indifferent as long as it is realistic and is reasonably durable

A, Think you have hit a good mix of realism vs. practicality. 190MM bodies wouldn't be bad...

Light buckets... maybe an aftermarket item, but not something I would personally use often. Would rather see the energy put into new bodies.

Speaking of new bodies:

'66 Mustang Notchback
Any first generation Pontiac Firebird
Some Cougars would be nice to.

Thanks again for seeking some input.

Daddy-o
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:59 PM   #5952
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i just found a picture from last year.... had to post it. Talk about close racing. Story is the 3rd car was actually on the inside and the 2 front cars were just i little too wide..... SURE!!! thats why he gets the Nickname "NO LIFT"

you check it out for yourself.
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Old 08-27-2009, 09:17 PM   #5953
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2 cell LiPo = over 2 liter class.
1 cell LiPo = under 2 liter class.
Just like in the real Trans-Am.
+1 on that Three! Tossing an HPI Cup Racer with a Datsun 510 body in the mix... that'd be cool and super realistic!
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Old 08-27-2009, 10:53 PM   #5954
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It has been mentioned before, but breakout racing is what is needed in VTA. Then you can run any speedo, motor, battery, FDR, etc. It seems to get shot down though because it penalizes a perfect lap, but you should set your car up to hit the breakout time with a perfect lap, and then aim for consistency, rather than looking for loopholes to find that hidden extra speed in order to get that edge over the field, defeating the spirit of VTA.
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Old 08-28-2009, 07:20 AM   #5955
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Good debate the last 2 or 3 days. Made work go much faster.

To all who are going, good luck this weekend at the Enduro!
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