Around The Table With Paul Lemieux(RC-America/Thunderpower)
03-04-2008, 04:29 PM
#466
Tech Apprentice
iTrader: (1)
Lees52: I see what you are saying. The season why i stated this to Mshap33 is because you have to get it close before you can even tume on it. I know how his rear end is set up, so i told him what camber link i think has the best traction/consistency for his set up. he said that his car was getting real loose in the center of the corner and right away i assumed/without seeing that he left out the 2mm shim for more camber gain in the rear. for the most part i think you are right about what you said. more gain should add a little more chassis roll, but when you think about it , more chassis roll equals less gain because if you are rolled over farther your tire will be more stud up, so basicly everything effects the other.
I think that with rubber tires you have to know your set up, and what these changes do to your car specifically.
If someone told me that i was right 70% of the time on here i would be very happy. but always try the stuff and get back to me, I will be wrong alot.
And if i didnt answer your question please ask again.
Thanks paul
I think that with rubber tires you have to know your set up, and what these changes do to your car specifically.
If someone told me that i was right 70% of the time on here i would be very happy. but always try the stuff and get back to me, I will be wrong alot.
And if i didnt answer your question please ask again.
Thanks paul
Yeah its hard to suggest a change when you dont know the whole picture.
You prob would be 90% right if you saw the car and it on the track and knew what the driver was trying to achieve (and their skill level).
I think yr right about the camber gain in that one affects the other.
The tyre prob stays the same camber only the speed of weight transfer on it varies. More spacers slows it down.
Perhaps adding spacers is a way of fine tuning the rear end for available grip. Add more when less grip.
Pretty general but thats all im after at the moment until I try it.
Anyway I wanted to ask you about your 06 Worlds Turin setup. You had kickup all round(pro dive and anti squat). I thought generally you liked flat pins. My understanding is it would make your car sink off power and sit up on power. Yeah so what was your reasoning for this?
Cheers for your time.
03-04-2008, 06:44 PM
#467
Last weekend we ran a 13.5 a 27T and a 17.5 at the same time to see the difference between them. The 27T is def faster than the 17.5 and the 13.5 beat both of them. I run a T2 007 and had the 17.5 in it. I had it rolled out at 48mm.I ran a 104 tooth spur and a 44 tooth pinion on a 80x32 track. We all had a clean run and there was a lap between each motor. If you have a choice between the 17.5 or the 27T go with the 27T.
Lees52: im glad you understand, that is what i was getting at.
i do normally like flat pins, at that race i was unable to make my car steer as much as it needed to to be fast, that was one of the things that just seemed to help, it acually didnt make it turn atall it just alowed me to hustlle the car around and make it turn. it seemed to feel bad but if i drove very hard i could slide it around more and agressively achieve a better lap time. Not the way to do it atall but in that situation it seemed to work for me.
03-04-2008, 07:36 PM
#468
Dustin: the 9351 is a much higher torque servo, i used to use the 9550 short case in all my tc's. In recent months with brushless getting so fast i think for Mod Foam it dosen't have the needed torque for the very high speed sections. in rubber i use the 9550 because i think it has proper torque for your average med traction rubber tire track. so with the combination of speed and traction (foams) i think a stronger servo is needed. It may be needed for rubber soon also.
It's really interesting to see you use the 9351 on a TC. That servo isn't overly fast (.13 sec.) compared to some others, which are like .06 sec.
I remember about a year ago reading a thread from you in which you advised against a super fast servo, that they can actually make driving more difficult. I always read on rctech people wanting the fastest servos out there, and people who say anything over .10 sec. is too slow. What are your thoughts, since if the 9351 is fast enough for you it's obviously more than fine for the rest of us.
Thanks,
Jon
03-04-2008, 07:53 PM
#469
Hi John: I will run a fast servo but i dont feel the need for them. I will take torque over speed all day in a servo. In fact i recently ran a heli servo that was something like.18sec very slowm but had a rediculous amount of torque and liked it also, That was overkill but the 9351 is a great ballance for me.
Terry Rott once told me that all the speed in a servo can make it hard to drive and i think he was right. Keep in mind that the steering ratio (amount of servo throw compaired to amount that your wheels turn) in whatever car you are running plays a key in this also, legnth of servo horn,etc. shorter servo horn= more torque, Longer = more speed, so you can tune it some this way. but for me it is the stock Xray servo horn with the 9351 for foam.
Paul
Terry Rott once told me that all the speed in a servo can make it hard to drive and i think he was right. Keep in mind that the steering ratio (amount of servo throw compaired to amount that your wheels turn) in whatever car you are running plays a key in this also, legnth of servo horn,etc. shorter servo horn= more torque, Longer = more speed, so you can tune it some this way. but for me it is the stock Xray servo horn with the 9351 for foam.
Paul
03-05-2008, 01:23 AM
#471
Hi John: I will run a fast servo but i dont feel the need for them. I will take torque over speed all day in a servo. In fact i recently ran a heli servo that was something like.18sec very slowm but had a rediculous amount of torque and liked it also, That was overkill but the 9351 is a great ballance for me.
Terry Rott once told me that all the speed in a servo can make it hard to drive and i think he was right. Keep in mind that the steering ratio (amount of servo throw compaired to amount that your wheels turn) in whatever car you are running plays a key in this also, legnth of servo horn,etc. shorter servo horn= more torque, Longer = more speed, so you can tune it some this way. but for me it is the stock Xray servo horn with the 9351 for foam.
Paul
Terry Rott once told me that all the speed in a servo can make it hard to drive and i think he was right. Keep in mind that the steering ratio (amount of servo throw compaired to amount that your wheels turn) in whatever car you are running plays a key in this also, legnth of servo horn,etc. shorter servo horn= more torque, Longer = more speed, so you can tune it some this way. but for me it is the stock Xray servo horn with the 9351 for foam.
Paul
Thanks for your time! Best of luck at the worlds!!
Toink
Last edited by Mini Toink; 03-05-2008 at 01:53 AM.
03-05-2008, 01:59 AM
#472
Tech Apprentice
iTrader: (1)
Lees52: im glad you understand, that is what i was getting at.
i do normally like flat pins, at that race i was unable to make my car steer as much as it needed to to be fast, that was one of the things that just seemed to help, it acually didnt make it turn atall it just alowed me to hustlle the car around and make it turn. it seemed to feel bad but if i drove very hard i could slide it around more and agressively achieve a better lap time. Not the way to do it atall but in that situation it seemed to work for me.
i do normally like flat pins, at that race i was unable to make my car steer as much as it needed to to be fast, that was one of the things that just seemed to help, it acually didnt make it turn atall it just alowed me to hustlle the car around and make it turn. it seemed to feel bad but if i drove very hard i could slide it around more and agressively achieve a better lap time. Not the way to do it atall but in that situation it seemed to work for me.
Yeaha i would say it def worked!
Its something that has worked previously at our local since its bumpy and high speed but have steered away from since it makes the car a little unstable off power and twitching around center. I think ill give it another go.
Next Q..
I see you run a low roll center rear arm setting on the pins a lot.
I normally end up on the high setting and find it holds the rear up and stable.
Is that because you like a lot of roll in the rear and does it make the car less twitchy around center? Or maybe its just a foam carpet thing?
Thanks again...
03-05-2008, 08:13 AM
#473
Minitoink: right now i would go with the 9550 short case (Rubber Tire). that could change with testing, but if the worlds were next week, that is what i would be running for sure.
Lees52: yea i do normally run a low rear roll center (carpet foam), I think our definitions of stable may be two different things. I see what you could feel about the high roll center keeping the rear end supported, To me that is not what i am looking for in stability, i want to feel the rear end roll and when i can do that the car is always predictible for me to drive . For me a high rear roll center dose make the car twitchy, and that is the a big problem for me also.
Contradiction: That being said, I would love a high rear roll center if i put a 14lb spring underneath it, so its really the total package that decides what is possible. you can make the car feel good reguardless of what roll centers are on it,(just the rest of the set up will change.
Thanks paul
Lees52: yea i do normally run a low rear roll center (carpet foam), I think our definitions of stable may be two different things. I see what you could feel about the high roll center keeping the rear end supported, To me that is not what i am looking for in stability, i want to feel the rear end roll and when i can do that the car is always predictible for me to drive . For me a high rear roll center dose make the car twitchy, and that is the a big problem for me also.
Contradiction: That being said, I would love a high rear roll center if i put a 14lb spring underneath it, so its really the total package that decides what is possible. you can make the car feel good reguardless of what roll centers are on it,(just the rest of the set up will change.
Thanks paul
dna1
03-05-2008, 05:55 PM
#478
hey paul couple questions, both with foam tires. 1. rear camber link on the hub , difference on using the inner vs. outter hole ? 2. in the rear, difference in using the inner or outer hole on the rear a arm shock position. thanks paul
03-05-2008, 06:10 PM
#479
paul can you run low roll center on the rear of a stock 008 kit? i had a 007 before and couldnt run a low roll on the rear because their wasn't enough room.
03-06-2008, 10:41 AM
#480
Rosko: HI, The long hole on the rear hub should be more stable and easier to drive.
Inner vs outer hole on the rear arm: the inner hole will be softer/ less leverage to the tire. a 20lb spring on the inner hole will be like running a 17lb spring in the outer hole. this effects the oil in the same way. it has other effects as well but you will mainly notice the spring rate change.
You can use the low roll centers on the 008, on the 07 you did have to dreamel a groove in the chassis.
Inner vs outer hole on the rear arm: the inner hole will be softer/ less leverage to the tire. a 20lb spring on the inner hole will be like running a 17lb spring in the outer hole. this effects the oil in the same way. it has other effects as well but you will mainly notice the spring rate change.
You can use the low roll centers on the 008, on the 07 you did have to dreamel a groove in the chassis.