698LikesHandout motors
04-05-2018, 11:36 PM
#481
04-06-2018, 04:59 AM
#483
So one of the problems to me in modern day rc in the U.S. is nobody cares about, nor supports R.O.A.R. yet, it's still expected that they should be the standard bearer, and rules makers for all non-member organizations.
Maybe a rc revolt and membership take over is in order, then a huge membership drive in an attempt to revitalize the member driven aspect of R.O.A.R. to flourish and grow.
Set brand new industry objectives and goals.
Lead the direction of competition and club racing, instead of playing a pawn to it.
Maybe a rc revolt and membership take over is in order, then a huge membership drive in an attempt to revitalize the member driven aspect of R.O.A.R. to flourish and grow.
Set brand new industry objectives and goals.
Lead the direction of competition and club racing, instead of playing a pawn to it.
Racers are always going to do whatever they want. No matter how much we agree on what would be best for racing, if racers don't want to do it, they won't.
For ROAR to be effective, someone would have to step up and be a leader, and no one is going to put up with that much abuse.
04-06-2018, 06:03 AM
#484
Also manufactures know we are out to buy the fastest motor to win whatever class we choose to enter ... So even if roar dont approve it ..they will still advertise it as "designed to ROAR spec(even tho its not built to ROAR spec)" anything to make a sale .
As for the rpm game ... The trinity big wire more isn't any faster than other motors ... It has faster lap times ... Meaning the rpm limiter does no good in fact it might make it stand out even more ... My TSR motors race at much higher rpms than even my %5 max thats failed tech at all these big races ....
For reference according to esc on track data & dyno data
Our max 17.5 motor turns 21k and does 10.4 lap time
Our TSR 17.5 motor turns
23k and does 10.7 lap time
So if you put a 16k rpm limit on the and some fdr limit we will still be forced to buy several sexpensive expensive motors testing which is better and as companies install illegal wire they will continue to benthe faster motors ... Out of the corner... Meaning we will still buy them... So this solves nothing for us racers ...
Only possible (but complicated) option I could see would Be to have a new blinky software that has a current,rpm,acceleration rate all locked into the software . and I'm not even sure how that would work ... Cause most esc's dont have current montering ... Maybe with a fdr also it would work .. (Thinking this up as I type)
Or just go handout & Mod. That's still my choice
Matt and I will only be racing those 2 classes this season 👍
As for the rpm game ... The trinity big wire more isn't any faster than other motors ... It has faster lap times ... Meaning the rpm limiter does no good in fact it might make it stand out even more ... My TSR motors race at much higher rpms than even my %5 max thats failed tech at all these big races ....
For reference according to esc on track data & dyno data
Our max 17.5 motor turns 21k and does 10.4 lap time
Our TSR 17.5 motor turns
23k and does 10.7 lap time
So if you put a 16k rpm limit on the and some fdr limit we will still be forced to buy several sexpensive expensive motors testing which is better and as companies install illegal wire they will continue to benthe faster motors ... Out of the corner... Meaning we will still buy them... So this solves nothing for us racers ...
Only possible (but complicated) option I could see would Be to have a new blinky software that has a current,rpm,acceleration rate all locked into the software . and I'm not even sure how that would work ... Cause most esc's dont have current montering ... Maybe with a fdr also it would work .. (Thinking this up as I type)
Or just go handout & Mod. That's still my choice
Matt and I will only be racing those 2 classes this season 👍
04-06-2018, 07:04 AM
#485
You can try to find all kind of technical rules like RPM limiting etc and indeed manufacturers will always try to sell you the most expensive motors because people think they can buy laptimes. In this way people are still spending too much money and makes it very difficult for a tech inspection to keep control on all techs.
Brand fanboys and other drivers who like to keep their speed secrets should be aware that the RC sports is slowly dying and can only stay healthy if their sport is attractive. In Europe we can clearly see that an handout motor with blinky ESC and a FDR limit is very populair and adopted by many countries and clubs. Not only due the low costs but also the excitement of close racing. After many years of all kind of devellopments like from brushed to bushless startng with the 1st LiPo batteries and for several years the continious evolving motors and ESC's there is some ease that started with zero timing and later with handout motors and FDR limits.
People who do not like that can drive modified but no other motor/ESC based classes on a national level (beside F1 21.5T and sometimes pro-10) just to prevent 1001 classes with 3 drivers each....
And again, it works. People are aware that all are driving the same powerplant and gearing that the lack of performance must come from their driving and setup skils and not from spening money try to go faster.
But yes, the ETS is also busy with RPM limiters but I believe they think that in a near future they can alow more motors.
Brand fanboys and other drivers who like to keep their speed secrets should be aware that the RC sports is slowly dying and can only stay healthy if their sport is attractive. In Europe we can clearly see that an handout motor with blinky ESC and a FDR limit is very populair and adopted by many countries and clubs. Not only due the low costs but also the excitement of close racing. After many years of all kind of devellopments like from brushed to bushless startng with the 1st LiPo batteries and for several years the continious evolving motors and ESC's there is some ease that started with zero timing and later with handout motors and FDR limits.
People who do not like that can drive modified but no other motor/ESC based classes on a national level (beside F1 21.5T and sometimes pro-10) just to prevent 1001 classes with 3 drivers each....
And again, it works. People are aware that all are driving the same powerplant and gearing that the lack of performance must come from their driving and setup skils and not from spening money try to go faster.
But yes, the ETS is also busy with RPM limiters but I believe they think that in a near future they can alow more motors.
04-06-2018, 09:42 AM
#487
....
Brand fanboys and other drivers who like to keep their speed secrets should be aware that the RC sports is slowly dying and can only stay healthy if their sport is attractive. In Europe we can clearly see that an handout motor with blinky ESC and a FDR limit is very populair and adopted by many countries and clubs. Not only due the low costs but also the excitement of close racing. After many years of all kind of devellopments like from brushed to bushless startng with the 1st LiPo batteries and for several years the continious evolving motors and ESC's there is some ease that started with zero timing and later with handout motors and FDR limits.
People who do not like that can drive modified but no other motor/ESC based classes on a national level (beside F1 21.5T and sometimes pro-10) just to prevent 1001 classes with 3 drivers each....
And again, it works. People are aware that all are driving the same powerplant and gearing that the lack of performance must come from their driving and setup skils and not from spening money try to go faster.
But yes, the ETS is also busy with RPM limiters but I believe they think that in a near future they can alow more motors.
Brand fanboys and other drivers who like to keep their speed secrets should be aware that the RC sports is slowly dying and can only stay healthy if their sport is attractive. In Europe we can clearly see that an handout motor with blinky ESC and a FDR limit is very populair and adopted by many countries and clubs. Not only due the low costs but also the excitement of close racing. After many years of all kind of devellopments like from brushed to bushless startng with the 1st LiPo batteries and for several years the continious evolving motors and ESC's there is some ease that started with zero timing and later with handout motors and FDR limits.
People who do not like that can drive modified but no other motor/ESC based classes on a national level (beside F1 21.5T and sometimes pro-10) just to prevent 1001 classes with 3 drivers each....
And again, it works. People are aware that all are driving the same powerplant and gearing that the lack of performance must come from their driving and setup skils and not from spening money try to go faster.
But yes, the ETS is also busy with RPM limiters but I believe they think that in a near future they can alow more motors.
Every club needs ONE entry / intermediate class that isn’t defined by deep pocket books ( sponsored and or wealthy drivers ). Then the hobby has a chance to grow at the club level so money isn’t the defining factor why a racer decides to quit or the intelligent person sees the flaw before even starting. I know it’s hard to recruit friends into racing knowing the reality of the costs of racing. Often a bystander walks up and says “this is so cool , and then they ask “ how much does it cost to race”? It’s hard to lie to strangers, let alone a friend . Lol
BIG *travel* race attendance isn’t a valuable indicator of the health of RC racing because the people that can afford going to big races go ( sponsored or with deep pockets ) and largely don’t mind the motor wars as much because they are the lucky few elite that can afford to buy ( or are given ) many motors every week or month as needed. It’s becoming an elitist hobby day by day, year by year. That has to stop, *in at least one class in every club there has to be a “safe haven” class that doesn’t cost a lot and remains competitive.
No solution is perfect, but from the sounds of many clubs that have done hand out motors with fdr limits , it appears to be quite popular for their club(s) and has the best chance to grow the hobby.
04-06-2018, 02:30 PM
#489
Tech Master
iTrader: (47)
"While this motor is still technically on the approval list, it's unlikely to be there for much longer as many have been found to have over-sized wire and be under the minimum resistance threshold. You may get to run it once or ten times."
Do you believe they would still buy it?
04-06-2018, 06:33 PM
#493
Racer's are going to buy whatever they see as a performance advantage. Are you suggesting the racers are actually demanding the manufacturers produce product that is not within specs? Do you think if they were told up front when buying a motor:
"While this motor is still technically on the approval list, it's unlikely to be there for much longer as many have been found to have over-sized wire and be under the minimum resistance threshold. You may get to run it once or ten times."
Do you believe they would still buy it?
"While this motor is still technically on the approval list, it's unlikely to be there for much longer as many have been found to have over-sized wire and be under the minimum resistance threshold. You may get to run it once or ten times."
Do you believe they would still buy it?
04-06-2018, 09:46 PM
#495
Been following this thread for a while with interest.
To throw my 2c in.
We have recently implimented a control motor for our 21.5t class out here in Australia, for racing at sanctioned events (states and nationals). Now this is a control, not handout, but bare with me.
The reason behind going this route was that following a survey of active racers, almost 60% were in favour of restricting the motors in what is our, entry-level class. In the discussion around it, a lot of reasons came up, $200+ motors, closesness of competition etc.
Anyway, after the first method of a pure handout model was rejected, we have ended up with a racer owned control motor.
We actually tested a lot of different motors supplied from our local distributors, and ended up selecting a version of the R1 V16. The key point is that whilst the motors are owned by the racers, at each event they will be teched (and are easily identifiable if the stator, rotor etc has been changed), set to the same Kv level (2400Kv) and then sealed to make sure they can't be adjusted.
We actually selected a motor still with adjustable timing instead of a fixed endbell for this reason, as we are confident that we can minimal variation across the motors (and potentially also allows for a performance increase by simply upping the Kv at no cost to racers).
Gearing has been left open, so to allow some adjustability to cars, driving style, and track size.
The motors in question are being sold for $120aud, but we have also taken to having rental motors avaible for those who are unable or unwilling to invest for events. And those motors are treated exactly the same as the purchased ones.
Yes, there have been some hiccups with the initial setup and setting, but thats more to do with the tools available than anything else. Lessons learnt, plans change and future batches will be far smoother.
First event with the motors is next weekend at our QLD state titles. And the fact that 100 motors were basically sold out within a week is encouraging!
To throw my 2c in.
We have recently implimented a control motor for our 21.5t class out here in Australia, for racing at sanctioned events (states and nationals). Now this is a control, not handout, but bare with me.
The reason behind going this route was that following a survey of active racers, almost 60% were in favour of restricting the motors in what is our, entry-level class. In the discussion around it, a lot of reasons came up, $200+ motors, closesness of competition etc.
Anyway, after the first method of a pure handout model was rejected, we have ended up with a racer owned control motor.
We actually tested a lot of different motors supplied from our local distributors, and ended up selecting a version of the R1 V16. The key point is that whilst the motors are owned by the racers, at each event they will be teched (and are easily identifiable if the stator, rotor etc has been changed), set to the same Kv level (2400Kv) and then sealed to make sure they can't be adjusted.
We actually selected a motor still with adjustable timing instead of a fixed endbell for this reason, as we are confident that we can minimal variation across the motors (and potentially also allows for a performance increase by simply upping the Kv at no cost to racers).
Gearing has been left open, so to allow some adjustability to cars, driving style, and track size.
The motors in question are being sold for $120aud, but we have also taken to having rental motors avaible for those who are unable or unwilling to invest for events. And those motors are treated exactly the same as the purchased ones.
Yes, there have been some hiccups with the initial setup and setting, but thats more to do with the tools available than anything else. Lessons learnt, plans change and future batches will be far smoother.
First event with the motors is next weekend at our QLD state titles. And the fact that 100 motors were basically sold out within a week is encouraging!