cut gears in stock class???
01-24-2014, 06:56 AM
#32
That last paragraph was on POINT. I started racing 5 months ago, and one thing I've learned is you're always going to be faster than the guy that flips all the time. Now that I'm consistent, and don't crash more than once in a race, I'm focusing on equipment that can help me get faster. Sorry I can't relate to any brushed convo at all, haha.
I don't ever want to go back to those days. Brushless/lipo has done more to level the playing field than anythings IMO. But no matter what the tech is, people will still cheat or find any perceptible advantage.Sometimes all you need is to play with your setup more though. sometimes something small like an ackerman change might let you carry a little more speed in turns, if your track has alot of straight sections you can reduce rear toe in and it will reduce rolling resistance. Sometimes stiffening up your damping can help you get on the gas a little faster... I highly encourage you to constantly try setup changes, and take notes. I send text messages to myself with track notes to timestamp it, and record them on the computer at home later.
01-24-2014, 07:01 AM
#33
Basically all you do is cut the width of the idler gear and diff gear (and maybe top shaft in some cases?) lower so that there is less surface area, thus less rolling resistance in the transmission, thus more punch out of the motor.
If I told you some of the things I heard folks were doing at CRCRC (major race recently) it would make you barf. Stock class at the regional and national level is a joke. Racers with motors that are so tweaked they are often pitched after one race. Racers having 15-20 motors ready to be burnt for just that event. Charging packs at 20-30amps to get more power... the list goes on. Stock class is a money pit, and racers who propagate this nonsense should be ashamed of yourselves. Stock class should be for newer racers, and it is now filled with old men with terrible spending problems.
If I told you some of the things I heard folks were doing at CRCRC (major race recently) it would make you barf. Stock class at the regional and national level is a joke. Racers with motors that are so tweaked they are often pitched after one race. Racers having 15-20 motors ready to be burnt for just that event. Charging packs at 20-30amps to get more power... the list goes on. Stock class is a money pit, and racers who propagate this nonsense should be ashamed of yourselves. Stock class should be for newer racers, and it is now filled with old men with terrible spending problems.
You don't need all that stuff to win. You just need to drive flawlessly and have a properly built / setup car. Oh and his car was rear motor too so in theory he should have been even slower compared to the mid motor cars LOL.
He ended up pulling out of 17.5 for other reasons, but still....just goes to prove my point.
01-24-2014, 07:28 AM
#35
Stock class being intended for beginners I feel is an overused statement. By rules all stock class is, is a spec class. Novice, and classes of such are for beginners.
On my b4.2 of old, I did the lunar outdrives, lunar lightened idler, mip pucks, bfast diff, and avid slipper and took 1 oz of rotating mass out of the car. Did it help me win? No, but my car was faster than it was before the upgrades. But I also put nearly 200$ into a b4 tranny.
On my b4.2 of old, I did the lunar outdrives, lunar lightened idler, mip pucks, bfast diff, and avid slipper and took 1 oz of rotating mass out of the car. Did it help me win? No, but my car was faster than it was before the upgrades. But I also put nearly 200$ into a b4 tranny.
01-24-2014, 07:34 AM
#36
Nobody has mentioned that 17.5 is way faster these days than when 17.5 began, as well as our brushed motor stock specs. We are on the edge of motoring down once again and it really needs to be a big jump. The novice really need 25.5. Intermediate might possibly last another 2-3 years at 21.5.
Still trying not to drop a cell in off-road racing!
Still trying not to drop a cell in off-road racing!
01-24-2014, 08:00 AM
#37
Tech Addict
iTrader: (23)
You don't need any of that stuff to win at a big race! I won the Jconcepts Indoor race with a off the shelf Novak 17.5 and a 70c shorty charged at 8 amps, and stock transmission internals. This was against two of AE's rising superstars.
I run both classes at big races for additional track time, plus its a challenge to stay smooth and keep your momentum up to clear all the jumps.
1. Don't Crash
2. Momentum Momentum Momentum
3. Make sure your car is as free as possible
I run both classes at big races for additional track time, plus its a challenge to stay smooth and keep your momentum up to clear all the jumps.
1. Don't Crash
2. Momentum Momentum Momentum
3. Make sure your car is as free as possible
01-24-2014, 11:31 AM
#38
Basically all you do is cut the width of the idler gear and diff gear (and maybe top shaft in some cases?) lower so that there is less surface area, thus less rolling resistance in the transmission, thus more punch out of the motor.
If I told you some of the things I heard folks were doing at CRCRC (major race recently) it would make you barf. Stock class at the regional and national level is a joke. Racers with motors that are so tweaked they are often pitched after one race. Racers having 15-20 motors ready to be burnt for just that event. Charging packs at 20-30amps to get more power... the list goes on. Stock class is a money pit, and racers who propagate this nonsense should be ashamed of yourselves. Stock class should be for newer racers, and it is now filled with old men with terrible spending problems.
If I told you some of the things I heard folks were doing at CRCRC (major race recently) it would make you barf. Stock class at the regional and national level is a joke. Racers with motors that are so tweaked they are often pitched after one race. Racers having 15-20 motors ready to be burnt for just that event. Charging packs at 20-30amps to get more power... the list goes on. Stock class is a money pit, and racers who propagate this nonsense should be ashamed of yourselves. Stock class should be for newer racers, and it is now filled with old men with terrible spending problems.
01-24-2014, 12:00 PM
#40
People complain about how stock is now. LOL! Sounds like you can relate.
10 years ago i was rebuilding and putting my stock motor on a lathe after every run at big races, shaping brushes, water dipping breakin, direct wired batteries soldered into the car for every run to eliminate connector resistance. Lightened components, even tire and foam selection was partly based on rotating mass. Lightening tires and re-balancing them is NOT fun! cycling batteries on our $400 chargers, and having 8-10 packs of Nimh batteries (at ~$75 a pack, and you still had to assemble them) since the process between charges was exhaustive to keep the Ir low and the voltage high.
all this and i still missed a State championship by .2 secs.....
Stock hasn't really changed, if anything it is MORE fair and cheaper than it used to be. You guys that have only been in this a few years really have NO idea.
Stock being for new racers is a bit of a misnomer, it is a good class to start in, but by the time your skills develop enough to compete, either move on to mod, or do what is needed to compete.
Still comes down to driving though, if you need to be marshaled, all that $$ spent on making your car faster will still keep you behind the guy who does it clean.
10 years ago i was rebuilding and putting my stock motor on a lathe after every run at big races, shaping brushes, water dipping breakin, direct wired batteries soldered into the car for every run to eliminate connector resistance. Lightened components, even tire and foam selection was partly based on rotating mass. Lightening tires and re-balancing them is NOT fun! cycling batteries on our $400 chargers, and having 8-10 packs of Nimh batteries (at ~$75 a pack, and you still had to assemble them) since the process between charges was exhaustive to keep the Ir low and the voltage high.
all this and i still missed a State championship by .2 secs.....
Stock hasn't really changed, if anything it is MORE fair and cheaper than it used to be. You guys that have only been in this a few years really have NO idea.
Stock being for new racers is a bit of a misnomer, it is a good class to start in, but by the time your skills develop enough to compete, either move on to mod, or do what is needed to compete.
Still comes down to driving though, if you need to be marshaled, all that $$ spent on making your car faster will still keep you behind the guy who does it clean.
+1
Novice to Mod....
01-24-2014, 02:42 PM
#41
I run stock because I want to. I have some sponsorship but as I read the rules it has to do with motor turns and speedo timing, not ability. As far as my set-up, well I've had guys that are faster than me drive my stuff and go faster than their own equipment. It's a personal choice to run stock and people trying to dictate what others runs seems a little well, wrong.
Blake
Blake
01-24-2014, 02:49 PM
#42
... I would say anything lower than a 13.5 would be pushing it... and on there packaging they sate it's only good for a 17.5 or above... so.. the only thing that took a dump on me was one of the idler gears.. the cut diff held up just fine..
01-24-2014, 07:20 PM
#43
I am guilty of dropping hundreds of dollars on "go fast" parts for my 17.5 truck. However while Im new to this board I'm by no means no to Rc especially "stock truck" New drivers should NEVER be steered to 17.5 classes they should be sent to a novice class for atleast a season if not 2 then to stock or mod. And as far as mod being old guys in my area yes it is because mod truck and short course have become bumper trucks as people have WAY more power than they can control and use on our small track and from experience I dont like my truck being smashed into a wall but some kids 5.5 powered truck that he cant slow down to make a clean corner in traffic. Stock class is where the seasoned guys go and we have good clean close racing. 17.5 is about good driving and chassis setup always has and will be Speed secrets may give you an edge but a pipe will take it away in a second
01-24-2014, 07:41 PM
#44
I am guilty of dropping hundreds of dollars on "go fast" parts for my 17.5 truck. However while Im new to this board I'm by no means no to Rc especially "stock truck" New drivers should NEVER be steered to 17.5 classes they should be sent to a novice class for atleast a season if not 2 then to stock or mod. And as far as mod being old guys in my area yes it is because mod truck and short course have become bumper trucks as people have WAY more power than they can control and use on our small track and from experience I dont like my truck being smashed into a wall but some kids 5.5 powered truck that he cant slow down to make a clean corner in traffic. Stock class is where the seasoned guys go and we have good clean close racing. 17.5 is about good driving and chassis setup always has and will be Speed secrets may give you an edge but a pipe will take it away in a second
New drivers are going to hit stuff, including other cars no matter what class they are in. It happens. It's our job as experienced drivers to anticipate that and try and avoid it.
After newer drivers are winning in novice they need to be pushed out into mod. Couple reasons. Unlike stock it's not cost prohibitive to have your car go as fast as others. It pushes drivers to focus on driving and setup as opposed to finding the fastest cheater motor they can buy. Stock has and always will be an arms race to a point, and can discourage newer drivers from sticking with it because of all the $$ they "think" they need to spend to keep up.
Most tracks have at least a couple of heats of mod on a given night. The race director should be splitting the experienced guys and the newer guys up during qualifying to limit issues. Making the "A" gives a goal to strive for.
The ideal progression IMO would be novice.. 2w short course... mod buggy... 1/8th. but that never happens. Stock buggy could fit after novice, or ideally as a second class.
But in the days of too many classes and total noobs with stupid overpowered 1/8th scales as their first class... For the hobby to grow and survive it's up to the experienced guys to push the new guys in the proper direction.
01-24-2014, 08:07 PM
#45
Being some what new to racing I went for stock buggy because I felt it was an even playing field. The reason I started the thread was to find out about cut gears and other things you can do to get a little advantage in a seemingly stock class of racing. I think a lot of people have got off track about saying who this class belongs too. Rc racing is about having fun in what ever class your going to run. Not trying to step on any ones toes and I do apreciate all the feedback that has been given.