Tekin Rx8 & T8 2650kv kit on 6s OR MMM combo 2650kv on 6s ?????
01-31-2011, 06:38 AM
#16
OC, The Ve8 buggy is a great racer, but it will make for a tight package to run the motor, esc, and lipo's it will take to hit 100mph (which btw is faster than 120kmh 
). It's entirely possible but I think you'll want to start a bit lower at first, like ~80mph and develop the driving skills it takes to do 100mph.
Launching the car off the side of the road at that speed will ruin your fun instantly.
In the stock photo of the Ve8 it looks like they're using a big can motor already but it looks very close to the steering bell cranks. Can you measure the distance from the motor mount to the cranks? maybe post up a few pic's of the chassis without electrical gear and a tape measure near it for reference?
Here's a photo of the Losi 8 buggy I've shoehorned my setup into, it took swapping the front and rear center drive shafts to put the center diff a few mm farther back, relocating the center diff at a slight angle to clear the motor from the front drive shaft and flipping the center diff to put the motor forward. The mount is a Castle Creations conversion as this buggy started out nitro, but there are plenty of options out there for piecing together what ever you want to pull off.
There's a Mamba XL esc and a 1518 (1800kv) Castle/Neu motor in it. Should do better then 70mph geared as low as I can get it at 15t pinion, haven't done the math on what it would do geared higher...
). It's entirely possible but I think you'll want to start a bit lower at first, like ~80mph and develop the driving skills it takes to do 100mph. Launching the car off the side of the road at that speed will ruin your fun instantly.
In the stock photo of the Ve8 it looks like they're using a big can motor already but it looks very close to the steering bell cranks. Can you measure the distance from the motor mount to the cranks? maybe post up a few pic's of the chassis without electrical gear and a tape measure near it for reference?
Here's a photo of the Losi 8 buggy I've shoehorned my setup into, it took swapping the front and rear center drive shafts to put the center diff a few mm farther back, relocating the center diff at a slight angle to clear the motor from the front drive shaft and flipping the center diff to put the motor forward. The mount is a Castle Creations conversion as this buggy started out nitro, but there are plenty of options out there for piecing together what ever you want to pull off.
There's a Mamba XL esc and a 1518 (1800kv) Castle/Neu motor in it. Should do better then 70mph geared as low as I can get it at 15t pinion, haven't done the math on what it would do geared higher...
01-31-2011, 06:55 AM
#18
Snellemin, you should post up some of your stuff too, not exactly a slacker yourself :-) Thanks though :-)
01-31-2011, 09:34 AM
#20
to DrKnow65
maximum lenght would be 76mm , at 76mm i can't pass a paper between the motor and the steering post , but i can sand it down to same a 1mm for it not to rub
but the 1518 motor cant fit ....
only 1515
cant post pics im to new as well !! loll
maximum lenght would be 76mm , at 76mm i can't pass a paper between the motor and the steering post , but i can sand it down to same a 1mm for it not to rub
but the 1518 motor cant fit ....
only 1515 cant post pics im to new as well !! loll
01-31-2011, 10:28 AM
#21
Overclocker, I looked and could fit the 2200 into my VE8 with the HHH chassis. It's tight but it fits with no modifications. This is with the HB one piece motor mount. I hear GridRC is coming out with a motor mount that will fit the 2200, the Elite RC one does not. If you got that XL with that chassis, you could run an 8s saddle pack configuration with 2 4s batteries(Awesome 
). Something nobody has mentioned would be the bearings. I know they have RPM ratings on them and you'd probably need to get a nice set to push these limits. Good luck, have fun. I'd love to see pictures and video when you get this monster built.
). Something nobody has mentioned would be the bearings. I know they have RPM ratings on them and you'd probably need to get a nice set to push these limits. Good luck, have fun. I'd love to see pictures and video when you get this monster built.
01-31-2011, 10:52 AM
#22
Don't worry about anything yet, building frankensteins monster takes time LOL
You could pull the 100mph with a 1515 size motor, that's not a problem. You can't spin the 2200kv on 8s. 3.7v x 8s=29.6v x 2200=65,120rpm way to high.
You aren't limited to the "combo" motors, Neu produces motors of many different winds. The "Y" winds are best for surface RC and you can get a 1515 in a lower KV that will work just fine on 8S.
You also aren't tied into 8S, it just runs cooler than 6S. Reason being it watts and amps. Watts are the electrical equivilant of horsepower. Watts are calculated by amps times volts. Amps are the current flowing through the system. Amps are what create heat.
A short example is 10watts = 10amps at 1v. OR 10watts = 1amp at 10v.
Running this hypothetical system at 10v would have less energy lost as heat because the amps are lower.
I'll look at the 1515 motors later and post up a good alternative.
Also, I've moved the CD in both of my high voltage cars to fit larger motors, so layout changes are a possibility too. My bigger concern would be making room for the Mamba XL :-) it's not small...
You could pull the 100mph with a 1515 size motor, that's not a problem. You can't spin the 2200kv on 8s. 3.7v x 8s=29.6v x 2200=65,120rpm way to high.
You aren't limited to the "combo" motors, Neu produces motors of many different winds. The "Y" winds are best for surface RC and you can get a 1515 in a lower KV that will work just fine on 8S.
You also aren't tied into 8S, it just runs cooler than 6S. Reason being it watts and amps. Watts are the electrical equivilant of horsepower. Watts are calculated by amps times volts. Amps are the current flowing through the system. Amps are what create heat.
A short example is 10watts = 10amps at 1v. OR 10watts = 1amp at 10v.
Running this hypothetical system at 10v would have less energy lost as heat because the amps are lower.
I'll look at the 1515 motors later and post up a good alternative.
Also, I've moved the CD in both of my high voltage cars to fit larger motors, so layout changes are a possibility too. My bigger concern would be making room for the Mamba XL :-) it's not small...
01-31-2011, 10:52 AM
#23
Overclocker, I looked and could fit the 2200 into my VE8 with the HHH chassis. It's tight but it fits with no modifications. This is with the HB one piece motor mount. I hear GridRC is coming out with a motor mount that will fit the 2200, the Elite RC one does not. If you got that XL with that chassis, you could run an 8s saddle pack configuration with 2 4s batteries(Awesome ). Something nobody has mentioned would be the bearings. I know they have RPM ratings on them and you'd probably need to get a nice set to push these limits. Good luck, have fun. I'd love to see pictures and video when you get this monster built.
). Something nobody has mentioned would be the bearings. I know they have RPM ratings on them and you'd probably need to get a nice set to push these limits. Good luck, have fun. I'd love to see pictures and video when you get this monster built.definitaly going to see some HD videos in summer when my project is finished !
trying to get the best of all the company's to buil a Ultimate buggy !
right now i only have the hb ve8 in kit form , nothing else , still need to so a lot more research just for not buying something 2 time ... what would piss me off badly
still have time im in no rush , just like good food takes time to cook !
trying to study the most i can , im a noobie to this R/c world
i owned a HPI Nitro Rs4 and its totaly not the same thing when u go in electric !!
any info you guys can give me is very appreciated !! thanks !!
btw im now a member on RcMonsters ! waiting for a admin to activate me
Thanks Jeff !!!
01-31-2011, 10:58 AM
#24
1515 1.5Y would work on 8S at 1500kv...
But don't buy anything yet, you gotta consider everything and lay out the plan first.
But don't buy anything yet, you gotta consider everything and lay out the plan first.
01-31-2011, 11:02 AM
#25
Don't worry about anything yet, building frankensteins monster takes time LOL
You could pull the 100mph with a 1515 size motor, that's not a problem. You can't spin the 2200kv on 8s. 3.7v x 8s=29.6v x 2200=65,120rpm way to high.
You aren't limited to the "combo" motors, Neu produces motors of many different winds. The "Y" winds are best for surface RC and you can get a 1515 in a lower KV that will work just fine on 8S.
You also aren't tied into 8S, it just runs cooler than 6S. Reason being it watts and amps. Watts are the electrical equivilant of horsepower. Watts are calculated by amps times volts. Amps are the current flowing through the system. Amps are what create heat.
A short example is 10watts = 10amps at 1v. OR 10watts = 1amp at 10v.
Running this hypothetical system at 10v would have less energy lost as heat because the amps are lower.
I'll look at the 1515 motors later and post up a good alternative.
Also, I've moved the CD in both of my high voltage cars to fit larger motors, so layout changes are a possibility too. My bigger concern would be making room for the Mamba XL :-) it's not small...
You could pull the 100mph with a 1515 size motor, that's not a problem. You can't spin the 2200kv on 8s. 3.7v x 8s=29.6v x 2200=65,120rpm way to high.
You aren't limited to the "combo" motors, Neu produces motors of many different winds. The "Y" winds are best for surface RC and you can get a 1515 in a lower KV that will work just fine on 8S.
You also aren't tied into 8S, it just runs cooler than 6S. Reason being it watts and amps. Watts are the electrical equivilant of horsepower. Watts are calculated by amps times volts. Amps are the current flowing through the system. Amps are what create heat.
A short example is 10watts = 10amps at 1v. OR 10watts = 1amp at 10v.
Running this hypothetical system at 10v would have less energy lost as heat because the amps are lower.
I'll look at the 1515 motors later and post up a good alternative.
Also, I've moved the CD in both of my high voltage cars to fit larger motors, so layout changes are a possibility too. My bigger concern would be making room for the Mamba XL :-) it's not small...
ok i see where youre going , and its very logical , but u think i could relocate my centre diff ?? hum that would be interesting ! let me look into it ! ( actully look at my buggy and take massurements ! either ways im preaty sure Harley @ HHH industries could make me a custom chassis , but what center drive shaft to use ?? good question ? if i could fit that huge 2028 engine omg ! so imma get to work ! loll but then again if i move the motor to have more space , i wont have space for a 140mm 4s batt ! anyways let me check it out with a ruler !
thanks Jeff !
01-31-2011, 11:14 AM
#26
I have done the High Voltage setup before with the use of Lutach 10S car ESC for efficiency and speed runs. The Power was just too much for the drive train parts to last. I had used the Tekno Neu 1400kv 1512 motor with 10s1p A123.
Currently I'm challenging myself with a lower voltage speed monster. It's easier on the drivetrain, but more intense for the ESC. Currently the Tekin RX8 is holding up to the abuse. Goal is 100mph with 4s Lipo, which is not so easy to do and just as expensive as a High voltage setup.
I use A123's and Lipo's. The A123's have the most grunt of the line than my lipo's do. However fitment is an issue with A123's and so is the weight. On paper the lipo should do better, but in reality the A123's are king in my setups. But you have to learn how to deal with lower voltage/high amperage setups when wanting to use A123's for dragracing and speedruns. Caps and TVS's are your friend. I was never allowed to dragrace with A123's, because of IMDRA. But I always had the most powerful setups at the time. I started speed runs and enjoyed my toys that way. My parkinglot dragraces are won with A123's, which have
a lower voltage over my lipo opponents.
I use 2 pole motors over 4 pole motors for dragraces. Speed runs doesnt matter. The Castle motors are ok, but I prefer the real deal Neu motors. C50-L Hackers are my 2 pole motor of choice. ESC of choice is RX8, due to better software.
Belted tires are needed and foams can only bring you so far. Ride height is also an issue. You will wheelie when the vehicle is too tall and it will be harder to control at high speeds. Lock the center diff or use a spool. My diffs are 44/14 which are better for high speed runs.
Your choice of motor winds is also a consideration. Delta and Wye. Delta has a bit more torque vs the Wye. Wye you gain a bit more kv's with timing increase over the Delta. However as the Delta has more torque, you can go up a tooth and be near equal to the Wye. I run both Wye and Delta in my setups. When running at the limits of your electronics, it is best not to go cheap on simple things like battery and motor connectors. Capacitors is recommended when running cheaper batteries If you want that extra protection against reverse current and voltage spikes, adding TVS (transient voltage suppressor) will help as well.
Currently I'm challenging myself with a lower voltage speed monster. It's easier on the drivetrain, but more intense for the ESC. Currently the Tekin RX8 is holding up to the abuse. Goal is 100mph with 4s Lipo, which is not so easy to do and just as expensive as a High voltage setup.
I use A123's and Lipo's. The A123's have the most grunt of the line than my lipo's do. However fitment is an issue with A123's and so is the weight. On paper the lipo should do better, but in reality the A123's are king in my setups. But you have to learn how to deal with lower voltage/high amperage setups when wanting to use A123's for dragracing and speedruns. Caps and TVS's are your friend. I was never allowed to dragrace with A123's, because of IMDRA. But I always had the most powerful setups at the time. I started speed runs and enjoyed my toys that way. My parkinglot dragraces are won with A123's, which have
a lower voltage over my lipo opponents.
I use 2 pole motors over 4 pole motors for dragraces. Speed runs doesnt matter. The Castle motors are ok, but I prefer the real deal Neu motors. C50-L Hackers are my 2 pole motor of choice. ESC of choice is RX8, due to better software.
Belted tires are needed and foams can only bring you so far. Ride height is also an issue. You will wheelie when the vehicle is too tall and it will be harder to control at high speeds. Lock the center diff or use a spool. My diffs are 44/14 which are better for high speed runs.
Your choice of motor winds is also a consideration. Delta and Wye. Delta has a bit more torque vs the Wye. Wye you gain a bit more kv's with timing increase over the Delta. However as the Delta has more torque, you can go up a tooth and be near equal to the Wye. I run both Wye and Delta in my setups. When running at the limits of your electronics, it is best not to go cheap on simple things like battery and motor connectors. Capacitors is recommended when running cheaper batteries If you want that extra protection against reverse current and voltage spikes, adding TVS (transient voltage suppressor) will help as well.
01-31-2011, 12:08 PM
#27
I have done the High Voltage setup before with the use of Lutach 10S car ESC for efficiency and speed runs. The Power was just too much for the drive train parts to last. I had used the Tekno Neu 1400kv 1512 motor with 10s1p A123.
Currently I'm challenging myself with a lower voltage speed monster. It's easier on the drivetrain, but more intense for the ESC. Currently the Tekin RX8 is holding up to the abuse. Goal is 100mph with 4s Lipo, which is not so easy to do and just as expensive as a High voltage setup.
I use A123's and Lipo's. The A123's have the most grunt of the line than my lipo's do. However fitment is an issue with A123's and so is the weight. On paper the lipo should do better, but in reality the A123's are king in my setups. But you have to learn how to deal with lower voltage/high amperage setups when wanting to use A123's for dragracing and speedruns. Caps and TVS's are your friend. I was never allowed to dragrace with A123's, because of IMDRA. But I always had the most powerful setups at the time. I started speed runs and enjoyed my toys that way. My parkinglot dragraces are won with A123's, which have
a lower voltage over my lipo opponents.
I use 2 pole motors over 4 pole motors for dragraces. Speed runs doesnt matter. The Castle motors are ok, but I prefer the real deal Neu motors. C50-L Hackers are my 2 pole motor of choice. ESC of choice is RX8, due to better software.
Belted tires are needed and foams can only bring you so far. Ride height is also an issue. You will wheelie when the vehicle is too tall and it will be harder to control at high speeds. Lock the center diff or use a spool. My diffs are 44/14 which are better for high speed runs.
Your choice of motor winds is also a consideration. Delta and Wye. Delta has a bit more torque vs the Wye. Wye you gain a bit more kv's with timing increase over the Delta. However as the Delta has more torque, you can go up a tooth and be near equal to the Wye. I run both Wye and Delta in my setups. When running at the limits of your electronics, it is best not to go cheap on simple things like battery and motor connectors. Capacitors is recommended when running cheaper batteries If you want that extra protection against reverse current and voltage spikes, adding TVS (transient voltage suppressor) will help as well.
Currently I'm challenging myself with a lower voltage speed monster. It's easier on the drivetrain, but more intense for the ESC. Currently the Tekin RX8 is holding up to the abuse. Goal is 100mph with 4s Lipo, which is not so easy to do and just as expensive as a High voltage setup.
I use A123's and Lipo's. The A123's have the most grunt of the line than my lipo's do. However fitment is an issue with A123's and so is the weight. On paper the lipo should do better, but in reality the A123's are king in my setups. But you have to learn how to deal with lower voltage/high amperage setups when wanting to use A123's for dragracing and speedruns. Caps and TVS's are your friend. I was never allowed to dragrace with A123's, because of IMDRA. But I always had the most powerful setups at the time. I started speed runs and enjoyed my toys that way. My parkinglot dragraces are won with A123's, which have
a lower voltage over my lipo opponents.
I use 2 pole motors over 4 pole motors for dragraces. Speed runs doesnt matter. The Castle motors are ok, but I prefer the real deal Neu motors. C50-L Hackers are my 2 pole motor of choice. ESC of choice is RX8, due to better software.
Belted tires are needed and foams can only bring you so far. Ride height is also an issue. You will wheelie when the vehicle is too tall and it will be harder to control at high speeds. Lock the center diff or use a spool. My diffs are 44/14 which are better for high speed runs.
Your choice of motor winds is also a consideration. Delta and Wye. Delta has a bit more torque vs the Wye. Wye you gain a bit more kv's with timing increase over the Delta. However as the Delta has more torque, you can go up a tooth and be near equal to the Wye. I run both Wye and Delta in my setups. When running at the limits of your electronics, it is best not to go cheap on simple things like battery and motor connectors. Capacitors is recommended when running cheaper batteries If you want that extra protection against reverse current and voltage spikes, adding TVS (transient voltage suppressor) will help as well.
i understood 1/2 ... im a noobie dont forget !!
Jeff , i will be able to fit the the 1518 i think , im missing only 8 mm
i will ask Harley if he can do something about the lay out of the Chassis
but what about the center drive shafts ?? witch one to put ?
01-31-2011, 12:19 PM
#28
Well, before you go having a chassis made we should look at the buggy more to see if we can swing everything you need without significant mods or odd pieces. The closer you stay to original the easier the buggy will be to keep happy :-)
I've had good luck using the same center shafts, just swapping them front to back. You could measure the existing shafts to see the length difference. That's how far you would be moving the diff front to back.
But again I'm not sure yet that it's necessary...
Snellemin, go easy :-) there's package ESC's, wrapped lipo's, and Neu motors to be had that will net him his goal :-) we can talk caps, diodes, and p38 fluctuating modulator valves with him later LOL
I've had good luck using the same center shafts, just swapping them front to back. You could measure the existing shafts to see the length difference. That's how far you would be moving the diff front to back.
But again I'm not sure yet that it's necessary...
Snellemin, go easy :-) there's package ESC's, wrapped lipo's, and Neu motors to be had that will net him his goal :-) we can talk caps, diodes, and p38 fluctuating modulator valves with him later LOL
01-31-2011, 12:30 PM
#30
LOL :-)
P.s. The p38 gizmo was what Marvin the Martian was alway trying to blow up the earth with :-)
P.s. The p38 gizmo was what Marvin the Martian was alway trying to blow up the earth with :-)