Competitive 17.5 in a 2wd buggy? Soon...very soon.
09-19-2008, 06:22 PM
#166
Has anyone tried to use a RC10, B2, B3 top shaft in a B4 gear box? I do not have a B4 to see if it will fit. If it does then you can use the top shaft and the B3 slipper.
Also when the MIP 3 gear was out. This was before the stealth tranny came out. It did not have a slipper. You used the diff to adjust slip. This was the normal way to adjust slip. Even when the JRX2 cam out. There was not a slipper on the 6 gear tranny. Back in the day we use to melt a lot of diff gears
Also when the MIP 3 gear was out. This was before the stealth tranny came out. It did not have a slipper. You used the diff to adjust slip. This was the normal way to adjust slip. Even when the JRX2 cam out. There was not a slipper on the 6 gear tranny. Back in the day we use to melt a lot of diff gears
They make tires and parts better nowadays.
09-20-2008, 01:15 AM
#167
If you take a properly adjusted slipper clutch on a say a stock buggy.. run it.. then crank it all the way down.. Your telling me that there won't be a difference?? You take that same car.. and then tighten the diff say another half a turn... Your telling me it won't be handling worse? If you really believe that, then you have missed out on a lot of trackside fine tuning...
Don't get me wrong.. I think your adapters are great.. but as I said.. they give a lot.. but they also take away some..
Some people like that on the edge feeling of driving.. but you are going to have to make a driving style change yourself if track conditions change from the qualifiers to the main.. I find it quite nice to to make a simple little slipper or diff adjustment if somebody decides to water the track after we've run it dry all night.. or if I feel I need more or less traction.. or cornering.. People really overlook the slipper and diff..
Anways.. Everybody enjoy their toy racing! That's what it's all about!
Jerome
Don't get me wrong.. I think your adapters are great.. but as I said.. they give a lot.. but they also take away some..
Some people like that on the edge feeling of driving.. but you are going to have to make a driving style change yourself if track conditions change from the qualifiers to the main.. I find it quite nice to to make a simple little slipper or diff adjustment if somebody decides to water the track after we've run it dry all night.. or if I feel I need more or less traction.. or cornering.. People really overlook the slipper and diff..
Anways.. Everybody enjoy their toy racing! That's what it's all about!
Jerome
09-20-2008, 07:42 AM
#169
^^^Speaking of fast guys^^^
This whole deal is a real flashback to 1:1 car stuff for me. The fast guys seem to get a grip on what's important and what isn't. I straight walk up to a full-tilt pro guy AT the Nats, never met him before,explain what I have and what it does...and he hands me his car.
Jerome, on the other hand, ain't going for it.
Slipper in stock? This ----><---- important.
Gearing in stock?
This ----> (won't let me add a huge space....................................) <---- important, at least if you want to win.
29 cars in stock...7 of my hubs, 5 in the A, at least the top 5 guys had a hub, including the TQ and winner (someone else's POS, but a FAST motor). 3 of the guys had never run them before...if that's "on the edge" to you...maybe it's a good "on the edge".
This whole deal is a real flashback to 1:1 car stuff for me. The fast guys seem to get a grip on what's important and what isn't. I straight walk up to a full-tilt pro guy AT the Nats, never met him before,explain what I have and what it does...and he hands me his car.
Jerome, on the other hand, ain't going for it.
Slipper in stock? This ----><---- important.
Gearing in stock?
This ----> (won't let me add a huge space....................................) <---- important, at least if you want to win.
29 cars in stock...7 of my hubs, 5 in the A, at least the top 5 guys had a hub, including the TQ and winner (someone else's POS, but a FAST motor
). 3 of the guys had never run them before...if that's "on the edge" to you...maybe it's a good "on the edge".
09-20-2008, 07:52 AM
#170
Suspended
Hate to be the one to call you out, OK the second, on your theory --- but the reality of the situation is that on the Nats level you keep mentioning the top-5 in the A yet there is a huge difference in driver ability and their almost inate throttle control compared to the rest of the field and especially anyone on the local clubracer level. Let alone track surface and condition. So in the same sense that Masami has been wheeling around all sorts of cars using a barebones stick radio for years, what he does and is able to do can not compare in any way to what anybody else especially the average joe can do when you slap that same stick set in his hands.
09-20-2008, 08:04 AM
#171
I bet.
Like I said...it's just like with 1:1 cars. Fast guys know HOW to go fast...and they can drive well. One without the other is useless -- unless you're Jeff Gordon.
Personally, I'm not a great drive by any means, and I've done much better since I started using one...gearing is much more important than a slipper in stock. You either subscribe to that theory or you lose...plain as that. I didn't test these out at the Nats...I tested it out with club racers and the fast guys knew it would work intuitively.
Like I said...it's just like with 1:1 cars. Fast guys know HOW to go fast...and they can drive well. One without the other is useless -- unless you're Jeff Gordon.
Personally, I'm not a great drive by any means, and I've done much better since I started using one...gearing is much more important than a slipper in stock. You either subscribe to that theory or you lose...plain as that. I didn't test these out at the Nats...I tested it out with club racers and the fast guys knew it would work intuitively.
09-20-2008, 08:24 AM
#172
Suspended
I bet.
Like I said...it's just like with 1:1 cars. Fast guys know HOW to go fast...and they can drive well. One without the other is useless -- unless you're Jeff Gordon.
Personally, I'm not a great drive by any means, and I've done much better since I started using one...gearing is much more important than a slipper in stock. You either subscribe to that theory or you lose...plain as that. I didn't test these out at the Nats...I tested it out with club racers and the fast guys knew it would work intuitively.
Like I said...it's just like with 1:1 cars. Fast guys know HOW to go fast...and they can drive well. One without the other is useless -- unless you're Jeff Gordon.
Personally, I'm not a great drive by any means, and I've done much better since I started using one...gearing is much more important than a slipper in stock. You either subscribe to that theory or you lose...plain as that. I didn't test these out at the Nats...I tested it out with club racers and the fast guys knew it would work intuitively.
At the same time running a slipper has nothing do with gearing unless your suggesting a change in FDR as a result of it.
Maybe it can be argued that running BL has smoothed out the powerbands in 17.5s compared to brushed 27T motors, but being one of the TeamPitStop drivers that tested the first slippers back in the late '80s I will say that everyone that didn't have one did lose and as a result every car and truck since has come with some version from the factory ever since.
But if you're good enough, whatever floats your boat Masami.
09-20-2008, 09:12 AM
#173
Just a quick note. We could all end the debate if you all run Academy GV2's you can run a 70t spur with the stock slipper.
Just wanted to throw that out there.
Just wanted to throw that out there.
09-20-2008, 11:42 AM
#175
I think a LOT has changed as far as tires, motors, and overall equipment since the 80s and you can't compare the use of a slipper then to now.
If you're seriously lacking enough traction with a 17.5 or stock motor, then something else is wrong. Sure, in the 80s when they used those big, hard knobby tires, a slipper would help get some traction. But with todays tires, chassis, and electronics, if you can't get traction with a stock motor, something is seriously wrong...
If you're seriously lacking enough traction with a 17.5 or stock motor, then something else is wrong. Sure, in the 80s when they used those big, hard knobby tires, a slipper would help get some traction. But with todays tires, chassis, and electronics, if you can't get traction with a stock motor, something is seriously wrong...
09-20-2008, 02:52 PM
#176
Ok.. first off.. let me start by saying that Turbo Joe is a great guy and fun to hang out with... I race with him all the time and he's very knowledgeable.
On this point I just have to adamantly disagree.... As previously stated.. there is a big difference between the top guys racing at the NATs and the average club racer.. it's all about driving ability... I have also said that with the adapter less the slipper folks are FAST! Not denying that at all. I thought they were cool when he first started making them.. still do..
The fast guys who saw the adapter knew that they need one to get their 17.5 motors geared to the "sweet spot" in order to compete.. they were getting beat by club racers using brushed motors until they could achieve the correct ratio.
My original comment was how people on this thread kept talking about "deficiencies" in the differentials... My thought (from my armchair :P ) after seeing the thread and folks at the track using the Turbo Adapter is that as the motor spools up and the it gets into the proper powerband it is too much for the diff... it barks.. so you have to tighten it.. not a big deal really..
If you want or have to run it tight.. go for it... but to say that a slipper does nothing... or the diff tightness doesn't matter or it's not a tunning option is plain silly.. it is..
I agree that maybe because of the tall gearing it "may" smooth out the kick.. so perhaps a slipperless car isn't too bad.. but running the diff tight is going to have ramifications on the car's handling..
I may be an "armchair" engineer but it doesn't make me wrong.
It's all about fun anyway
Jerome
On this point I just have to adamantly disagree.... As previously stated.. there is a big difference between the top guys racing at the NATs and the average club racer.. it's all about driving ability... I have also said that with the adapter less the slipper folks are FAST! Not denying that at all. I thought they were cool when he first started making them.. still do..
The fast guys who saw the adapter knew that they need one to get their 17.5 motors geared to the "sweet spot" in order to compete.. they were getting beat by club racers using brushed motors until they could achieve the correct ratio.
My original comment was how people on this thread kept talking about "deficiencies" in the differentials... My thought (from my armchair :P ) after seeing the thread and folks at the track using the Turbo Adapter is that as the motor spools up and the it gets into the proper powerband it is too much for the diff... it barks.. so you have to tighten it.. not a big deal really..
If you want or have to run it tight.. go for it... but to say that a slipper does nothing... or the diff tightness doesn't matter or it's not a tunning option is plain silly.. it is..
I agree that maybe because of the tall gearing it "may" smooth out the kick.. so perhaps a slipperless car isn't too bad.. but running the diff tight is going to have ramifications on the car's handling..
I may be an "armchair" engineer
but it doesn't make me wrong. It's all about fun anyway
Jerome
09-20-2008, 04:23 PM
#177
Ok.. first off.. let me start by saying that Turbo Joe is a great guy and fun to hang out with... I race with him all the time and he's very knowledgeable.
On this point I just have to adamantly disagree.... As previously stated.. there is a big difference between the top guys racing at the NATs and the average club racer.. it's all about driving ability... I have also said that with the adapter less the slipper folks are FAST! Not denying that at all. I thought they were cool when he first started making them.. still do..
The fast guys who saw the adapter knew that they need one to get their 17.5 motors geared to the "sweet spot" in order to compete.. they were getting beat by club racers using brushed motors until they could achieve the correct ratio.
My original comment was how people on this thread kept talking about "deficiencies" in the differentials... My thought (from my armchair :P ) after seeing the thread and folks at the track using the Turbo Adapter is that as the motor spools up and the it gets into the proper powerband it is too much for the diff... it barks.. so you have to tighten it.. not a big deal really..
If you want or have to run it tight.. go for it... but to say that a slipper does nothing... or the diff tightness doesn't matter or it's not a tunning option is plain silly.. it is..
I agree that maybe because of the tall gearing it "may" smooth out the kick.. so perhaps a slipperless car isn't too bad.. but running the diff tight is going to have ramifications on the car's handling..
I may be an "armchair" engineer but it doesn't make me wrong.
It's all about fun anyway
Jerome
On this point I just have to adamantly disagree.... As previously stated.. there is a big difference between the top guys racing at the NATs and the average club racer.. it's all about driving ability... I have also said that with the adapter less the slipper folks are FAST! Not denying that at all. I thought they were cool when he first started making them.. still do..
The fast guys who saw the adapter knew that they need one to get their 17.5 motors geared to the "sweet spot" in order to compete.. they were getting beat by club racers using brushed motors until they could achieve the correct ratio.
My original comment was how people on this thread kept talking about "deficiencies" in the differentials... My thought (from my armchair :P ) after seeing the thread and folks at the track using the Turbo Adapter is that as the motor spools up and the it gets into the proper powerband it is too much for the diff... it barks.. so you have to tighten it.. not a big deal really..
If you want or have to run it tight.. go for it... but to say that a slipper does nothing... or the diff tightness doesn't matter or it's not a tunning option is plain silly.. it is..
I agree that maybe because of the tall gearing it "may" smooth out the kick.. so perhaps a slipperless car isn't too bad.. but running the diff tight is going to have ramifications on the car's handling..
I may be an "armchair" engineer
but it doesn't make me wrong. It's all about fun anyway
Jerome
You should try it Jerome.
09-20-2008, 08:44 PM
#179
Suspended
I think a LOT has changed as far as tires, motors, and overall equipment since the 80s and you can't compare the use of a slipper then to now.
If you're seriously lacking enough traction with a 17.5 or stock motor, then something else is wrong. Sure, in the 80s when they used those big, hard knobby tires, a slipper would help get some traction. But with todays tires, chassis, and electronics, if you can't get traction with a stock motor, something is seriously wrong...
If you're seriously lacking enough traction with a 17.5 or stock motor, then something else is wrong. Sure, in the 80s when they used those big, hard knobby tires, a slipper would help get some traction. But with todays tires, chassis, and electronics, if you can't get traction with a stock motor, something is seriously wrong...
Losi and MIP were the first to start the migration away from the oldschool 6gear gearboxes, and their trannys back then are still rather similar in design to today's other than the final drive ratio.
Maybe you need to go back to school before mistakenly thinking you're ruling the classroom today while attempting to reinvent the wheel.
