tboned_2002

iTrader: (4)

[QUOTE=wstuart;15566948]I'm assembling b6.1 shocks with kashima bodies, chrome shafts and delrin inserts (the best stuff associated offers). I put them together using green slime and shock oil. I even wrap the treads in teflon when inserting fo keep them from scratching the silicone rings.

With all that, I must say that these shocks are NOT smooth. When I fully tightened the cartridge the shaft was bound. What am I missing? I tried switching out the delrin 2mm spacer (the one between the two rings) for the stock black plastic one and it helped a little but they are still very bad. Do I need to polish the shaft?
I'm considering just getting yokomo shocks.

Polish shafts and use the new machined thin shock pistons, I just went through this all and they are silky smooth laundry list below..

Team Associated VCS3 Lower Shock Cap Set w/O-Rings (2)
Team Associated 12mm Big Bore Threaded Collar (Blue) (2)
Team Associated 12mm Big Bore V2 Machined Shock Spacers
Team Associated 3x21mm V2 Chrome Screw Mount Buggy Front Shock Shaft (2)
Team Associated 3x27.5mm V2 Chrome Screw Mount Shock Shaft (2)
Team Associated Factory Team Thin 12mm Big Bore Flat Shock Piston Set (2x1.6mm)
Team Associated Factory Team Thin 12mm Big Bore Flat Shock Piston Set (2x1.7mm)
Team Associated B6.1/B6.1D Shock Caps & Spring Cups
Schelle Racing B5 Standoff Bushing (4)$5.00

jlett21

[QUOTE=tboned_2002;15567129]One or two things. First ensure the last delrin cap bushing is facing the right direction. Second, if you pack too much green slime in there it will bind up no matter what you do. Try just coating the ring in slime with your fingers before installing them. I too had this issue and once I changed my train of thought with green slime from filling in all gaps to just a protective coating everything became butter.

wstuart

iTrader: (117)

So I took them apart and used the stock molded plastic parts (black) instead of the Delrin parts. It was then smooth as butter, I must have had something installed incorrectly....

RogerM

The reason why the guides don't cover front vs rear specifically is simply because there is nothing to cover! Damping is related to that shock / end of the car only, no real effect front-rear or diagonally (unless you get them hugely mismatched to the springs / ARBs / roll centres of course).

Basically.....

Slow speed damping (sometimes referred to as static damping) controls how fast things happen at THAT END of the car and is mainly related to springs but also to ARBs (if thick relative to the springs) and the one most people forget .... the roll centre.
Heavier oil (bigger number) will slow down the rate at which things happen; how fast the car rolls, how well the car responds to smaller bumps / ripples on the track surface & how responsive the car is to initial weight transfer at turn in and under hard braking / accelleration.
Lighter damping the opposite, car will react faster.

High speed damping (referred to as pack) controls how THAT END of the car lands from jumps and how it deals with sharp edge features on the track surface which make the wheel move vertically very quickly. This is a combination of both piston and oil.

All a very standard explanation so far but lets get back to your question about how the front and rear damping might interact. As I stated above there is no rule about front and rear damping relationships which might be deliberately employed in a setup, but there are occasions where you might need to consider that the damping at one end of the car might be causing issues with finding a good balance at the other end of the car, this normally means that you have gone WAY too far but I have seen it happen.

Realistically you always want to try and balance the ride frequency (the relationship between how the front and rear ends of the car react to the same bump) along with the roll rates for the front and rear axles as the car navigates turns.

It is here where a front to rear damping ratio that is significantly away from optimum can confuse you. Lets assume that you have basically got the springs, ARBs and roll-centres pretty close to being correct but for whatever reason the car was still feeling really nervous, usually incorrect tyre selection but when additives are used getting that wrong can do the same.
The first thing most people will think of doing is to increase the front damping, lets say going from 35wt to 50wt as an extreme example (not that you should ever go more than 5wt at a time really ... sometimes that 5wt can be too much).

This would make the car much less nervous into the corner but now the front roll rate would be so slow that the weight transfer across the front axle will be so slow you end up with excessive weight transfer across the rear axle and during the exit phase of the corner the rear would break loose. It is common for people to then start trying to fix the issue that doesn't exist with the rear of the car, what they should be doing is softening the front end damping and dealing with the nervous feeling another way, say by going for a lower front roll centre in combination with either adding a bit of weight to the front or moving the weight forward in the wheelbase.

That example springs to mind as I see it a lot on EOS carpet setups for people who aren't used to that surface.

Equally in low grip setups it is common to see people go for very soft damping in order to hunt for grip but if you go too light on rear damping the weight can transfer too fast and cause the rear to break free during corner entry which of course triggers people to go hunting for grip which usually means encouraging weight transfer which of course makes it worse.

Sorry for the very long response but hopefully that goes someway to explaining why the "guides" don't cover front to rear damping ratio. Any further questions just ask.

BenewahRCTeam

Roger, thanks for that....
We race on outdoor dirt tracks, and I think that post will be extremely helpful.... we "tamed" the front of our SC trucks with stiffer oil, which made the rear loose on entry.... gonna go back 2.5wt or maybe all 5 , and see what else we can do to tame steering.... maybe even less aggressive tires up front, like some pressure points instead of the Holeshots/Chasers we use in the rear...

We are new to this 2wd buggy thing, and still deciding what to do for 2020 season.... 6.1D or DL.... just noticed the DL kit was selling cheap.... and had thought about possibly changing for the standup gearbox and using the spur cover.... Anyone have advice on which kit/configuration is best for large-ish (8th/10th combined) outdoor dirt tracks that typically call for Holeshots in most cases...? Mod buggy of course, that's all that is run here unless you go to the coast where there are some indoor and turf tracks and multiple 2wd buggy classes....
Looking forward to 2020, as we will most likely have our first season that isn't exclusively trucks, and this forum amd thread has been a big help....

sharksfan88

iTrader: (8)

Anyone have a fix for the pucks rubbing the caster link when the diff is set at 0? I’m sure I could “clearance” the mount but figured I’d ask first. Thanks

PorTX

iTrader: (4)

Trying to fix a handling issue. Running my b6.1 on clay. The car works relatively well considering we only get to run on dirt twice a year. But I am trying to figure out what I need to do to keep the car from suddenly snapping loose at the end of the straight? The car starts the turn in, nice and smooth. Then without warning it drops over on the outside rear tire and will do a donut within a very small radius. I am running 2x 1.7 hole pistons front and rear, 30 weight oil front and rear with green front and white rear springs....with space bar tires. 19mm ride height front and rear. I was running 30wt front and 27.5 rear but upped the rear oil to try to support the rear a little better. It really didn’t change anything.

Losiracer12

iTrader: (1)

Its most likely tire related but also note that your front pistons have bigger holes than any published setup sheets for your conditions also. If you could say the track or include a picture it would be easier to help. My guess right now is your Gold Space Bars being the issue. Also your green front springs are never used on a surface where Space Bars are.

PorTX

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for that info. Hard to gather that racing, once in October and once in January every year. This will be my 4th time to the track. Anyway here is a pic of the last trip up there. It is high grip and most people are sanding tires to slicks. I am not interested in buying tires and sanding them smooth for two runs and throwing them away. I am only trying to make my car better without breaking the bank. I race for fun and prefer to stretch my racing budget more than just on tires.

trf211

If what you said is correct your front spring is too soft. From the description of the track it sounds like you could run a v1 grey or even v1 blue if the grip is that high.

Di_spencer

iTrader: (18)

I agree. He should go up on spring for sure and also go to the 1.6x2 pistons on the front

PorTX

iTrader: (4)

So leave the 1.7 in the rears?

I also noticed that most are running the full size batteries with weights under the battery. I am running the small shorty pack with no added weights. I still have a lot, to figure out.

trf211

Yes leave the rear pistons 2x1.7h. The battery and added weights will play a big role in how it handles, especially high grip surfaces, more weight can add stability, but first get the suspension package more evenly balanced then move onto weight. Search up some setups on high grip clay and you can find a general consensus of 2x1.6h or a split piston 2x1.6h/1.7h in the front shocks paired with the v1 grey using 32.5wt oil, and on the rear 2x1.7h piston paired with the v1 green and 30wt oil. If grip is really high or they need more support on one end a v1 blue front or a v1 white rear is put on. If temperature is 20° colder or hotter than the setup posted, you may have to change oil by 1 step.

PorTX

iTrader: (4)

Same basic spring and piston setup for stock buggy as well? On carpet we ran stiffer springs and thicker oil on mod buggy (which is the car I was asking about above). I run stock (and 4wd mod) as well so I get more track time while there.

PorTX

iTrader: (4)

I noticed while changing pistons, which I ended up having 2x1.8’s in the front. Anyway, I noticed on the clay setup sheets most were running long eyelets on all the shocks. I had shorts on the front. So hopefully these changes will make the car better!