84LikesOfficial AARCMCC EP On Road Thread
12-06-2015, 03:16 AM
#16
We actually didn't want to mention brands for a reason. We don't really want it to be a witch hunt or have people unfairly calling out other racers as cheats. There has been some test failures overseas, and this prompted us to undertake some "unofficial" testing of our own.
So, until any of the motors are actually banned by the approving bodies or they put out an official statement we thought it was a good reminder to all racers to not simply rely on a "sticker" or manufacturer claims. What needs to be remembered is that AARCMCC do not typically undertake their own motor testing and approvals and rely on bodies such as ROAR and BRCA.
The main measurement of concern is the stack length. Luckily this is the really easy one to measure and this is a good reminder that racers are responsible for their own gear meeting the rules - don't just rely on manufacturer statements.
So, until any of the motors are actually banned by the approving bodies or they put out an official statement we thought it was a good reminder to all racers to not simply rely on a "sticker" or manufacturer claims. What needs to be remembered is that AARCMCC do not typically undertake their own motor testing and approvals and rely on bodies such as ROAR and BRCA.
The main measurement of concern is the stack length. Luckily this is the really easy one to measure and this is a good reminder that racers are responsible for their own gear meeting the rules - don't just rely on manufacturer statements.
12-06-2015, 05:01 PM
#18
Tech Adept
What needs to be remembered is that AARCMCC do not typically undertake their own motor testing and approvals and rely on bodies such as ROAR and BRCA. (quote)
]
If this is the case why don't you leave it to ROAR and BRCA to test motors and decide what's legal and what's not.
That way you will stop stirring shit amongst racers who have bought motors with the intent of just racing.
]
If this is the case why don't you leave it to ROAR and BRCA to test motors and decide what's legal and what's not.
That way you will stop stirring shit amongst racers who have bought motors with the intent of just racing.
12-06-2015, 05:08 PM
#19
Correct me if I am wrong but on road racing isn't exactly flush with numbers. (At least not here!) I appreciate the need for a level playing field and for tech to be done in regards to motor and speedies (check motor is what it says it is and speedy is in blinky mode) but besides that I haven't seen much done, maybe a motor has been pulled down to check the rotor / stator hasn't been transplanted over from a mod motor or something. But if you put in too many guidelines measuring for manufacturing abnormalities which the end user would have no way of knowing or testing then you drive people away. Sure if they lap the field in 21.5 blinky it warrants a look, but for the guy that came 10th, don't become such a stickler for the rules that people just throw their hands up scream why bother and drag out their Nitro Savages and hit the bmx tracks.
12-06-2015, 05:43 PM
#20
What needs to be remembered is that AARCMCC do not typically undertake their own motor testing and approvals and rely on bodies such as ROAR and BRCA. (quote)
]
If this is the case why don't you leave it to ROAR and BRCA to test motors and decide what's legal and what's not.
That way you will stop stirring shit amongst racers who have bought motors with the intent of just racing.
]
If this is the case why don't you leave it to ROAR and BRCA to test motors and decide what's legal and what's not.
That way you will stop stirring shit amongst racers who have bought motors with the intent of just racing.
So, you have an inconsistency between what the BRCA and ROAR are doing. In this case AARCMCC needs to be proactive and outline the situation clearly.
What they've done is remind everyone that AARCMCC rules specify that motors need to be on approved lists AND also meet the technical requirements.
Do the rules need to be enforced better at major events re scrutineering? Yes, probably. I'm sure that's something the new administration are looking at. They haven't been in the job a month yet though, so let's give them some time.
12-06-2015, 06:31 PM
#21
Tech Adept
The situation as I understand it is that the BRCA have taken action in one case (or are about to). One or two motors have been approved, but because of a manufacturing fault a large number of units of that particular motor are out of spec, and this is giving a performance advantage. I expect we may hear more about this in the coming weeks. The same motor(s) are ROAR approved but ROAR hasn't acted thus far.
So, you have an inconsistency between what the BRCA and ROAR are doing. In this case AARCMCC needs to be proactive and outline the situation clearly.
What they've done is remind everyone that AARCMCC rules specify that motors need to be on approved lists AND also meet the technical requirements.
Do the rules need to be enforced better at major events re scrutineering? Yes, probably. I'm sure that's something the new administration are looking at. They haven't been in the job a month yet though, so let's give them some time.
So, you have an inconsistency between what the BRCA and ROAR are doing. In this case AARCMCC needs to be proactive and outline the situation clearly.
What they've done is remind everyone that AARCMCC rules specify that motors need to be on approved lists AND also meet the technical requirements.
Do the rules need to be enforced better at major events re scrutineering? Yes, probably. I'm sure that's something the new administration are looking at. They haven't been in the job a month yet though, so let's give them some time.
R1Wurks believes this is not neccesary,so there is your conflict.
12-07-2015, 02:25 AM
#23
At this time we will not be naming brands for the following reasons.
1. There is more than one brand which is affected.
2. This may lead to calls for motor(s) to be banned where only mis-manufactured motors are a problem and manufactures will be responsible for their own investigations and quality control.
3. Publically naming and shaming manufacturers is not something we want to enter into as representatives of AARCMCC
If there was evidence of deliberate cheating and/or deception by a manufacturer, we may take a different view.
Correct. And the ROAR, BRCA rules require motors to be approved and meet the technical requirements.
Manufacturing faults do occur from time to time and although approved at ROAR events as per the ROAR regulation below all motors go through tech inspection before being allowed on the track.
"Please remember despite approval all motors are subject to pre race inspection to ensure legality."
Similar motor inspections occur in UK and Europe.
As per above the motor needs to be approved AND meet the technical specifications as measured on the day by scrutineering. These specifications are consistent with current both BRCA and ROAR guidelines.
As said earlier, if anyone owns a motor that is labelled to be approved and was found to be outside spec we would encourage you to contact your place of purchase for a refund or replacement.
At present AARCMCC uses ROAR, BRCA and EFRA motor approved lists. Motors can be approved by any or all of these bodies. If a motor is removed from one of the lists, it is still considered approved until such time that AARCMCC deems it to be non-compliant.
AARCMCC has a responsibility to ensure that the equipment used at sanctioned events are approved and meet the technical specifications. Testing will be undertaken as part of the normal scrutineering process, which may include use of a motor tester and or static measuring equipment. If a racer considers that a fellow racer is using illegal equipment, there is a formal dispute process as outlined in the technical regulations. Post event protests or disputes will not be entertained. Accusations and harassment will not be tolerated at any time at events, especially with respect to comments about previous results.
The rules for motor dimensions requirements have been in place since approximately 2006. Slight tweaks to the regulations have been made over the years but they have remained essentially unchanged for years.
The dimensions already include reasonable tolerances for manufacturing standards used by industry but we now have a situation where motor manufactures are pushing mechanical tolerances to the limit to gain every watt.
Measuring your motors dimensions as per the instructions is very easy and only requires calipers.
As per the previous post the main area of concern/variance which is the stack length and rotor diameter.
With regards to the R1 Wurks, yes it did fail a BRCA test. However, the failure was not related to performance issues or not being “in spec” to our understanding, it was more about the inability to measure the motor as required by the BRCA and the fact the “running change” was considered to warrant a new part number and therefore against the BRCA technical regulations for motor submissions.
And if we do say which motors we independently checked it will also create a serious amount of speculation and possible jumping at shadows.
1. There is more than one brand which is affected.
2. This may lead to calls for motor(s) to be banned where only mis-manufactured motors are a problem and manufactures will be responsible for their own investigations and quality control.
3. Publically naming and shaming manufacturers is not something we want to enter into as representatives of AARCMCC
If there was evidence of deliberate cheating and/or deception by a manufacturer, we may take a different view.
Manufacturing faults do occur from time to time and although approved at ROAR events as per the ROAR regulation below all motors go through tech inspection before being allowed on the track.
"Please remember despite approval all motors are subject to pre race inspection to ensure legality."
Similar motor inspections occur in UK and Europe.
As said earlier, if anyone owns a motor that is labelled to be approved and was found to be outside spec we would encourage you to contact your place of purchase for a refund or replacement.
At present AARCMCC uses ROAR, BRCA and EFRA motor approved lists. Motors can be approved by any or all of these bodies. If a motor is removed from one of the lists, it is still considered approved until such time that AARCMCC deems it to be non-compliant.
AARCMCC has a responsibility to ensure that the equipment used at sanctioned events are approved and meet the technical specifications. Testing will be undertaken as part of the normal scrutineering process, which may include use of a motor tester and or static measuring equipment. If a racer considers that a fellow racer is using illegal equipment, there is a formal dispute process as outlined in the technical regulations. Post event protests or disputes will not be entertained. Accusations and harassment will not be tolerated at any time at events, especially with respect to comments about previous results.
The dimensions already include reasonable tolerances for manufacturing standards used by industry but we now have a situation where motor manufactures are pushing mechanical tolerances to the limit to gain every watt.
Measuring your motors dimensions as per the instructions is very easy and only requires calipers.
As per the previous post the main area of concern/variance which is the stack length and rotor diameter.
If it's R1 Wurks motors you're talking about, the reason BRCA have not approved the latest motor is because although the changes to that motor have been approved, BRCA believe that for those changes a new part number should have been given to the changed motors.
R1Wurks believes this is not neccesary, so there is your conflict.
R1Wurks believes this is not neccesary, so there is your conflict.
And if we do say which motors we independently checked it will also create a serious amount of speculation and possible jumping at shadows.
Last edited by AARCMCC EP ONR; 12-07-2015 at 06:11 PM. Reason: Gramma
12-21-2015, 06:53 PM
#24
Different topic, but when do applications close for clubs to host the 2016 EP State Titles?
12-21-2015, 07:15 PM
#27
Pretty sure that venues for VIC titles and Nationals are already locked in, as is ACT titles.
Phil.
12-21-2015, 07:26 PM
#29
Bugger too late then. I know the Newcastle Club was interested but guess may have to wait another year.
12-21-2015, 09:28 PM
#30
If you start thinking about it now, then you can attend this year's event with an eye to the detail.
Also, if this has gone to vote, you should check that Newcastle has received notification. If you were unaware it might mean that the club's contact details need to be updated.