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-   -   Official AARCMCC EP On Road Thread (https://www.rctech.net/forum/australian-racing/899729-official-aarcmcc-ep-road-thread.html)

AARCMCC EP ONR 11-14-2015 03:13 AM

Official AARCMCC EP On Road Thread
 
Please be aware from today we have attempted to close the “AARCMCC EP ONR” thread on RCTECH. It has served its purpose, but this page is a much better way to communicate with the EP ONR community.

We have decided a medium which can be commented on by anyone behind a faceless handle that we have zero control over is not where we want dissuasions held.

Maintaining and monitoring both is more a frustration than is necessary.

As always, if you want comments to be private or not broadcast, we invite you to message us and or email at [email protected]

If you know anyone who is active on RCTECH and not on FB, please direct them to our email if they wish to share their views. Happy to post on their behalf.

DamianW 11-14-2015 03:18 AM

Facebook page.

www.facebook.com/AARCMCCEPONROAD/?fref=ts

cplus 11-14-2015 03:34 AM

the facebook page is *almost* at 100 likes already. hopefully this thread helps lift that substantially :D

kermit 11-15-2015 11:03 PM

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AARCMCC EP ONR 11-16-2015 03:50 AM

As part of our remit to listen to the racers, we would like to invite racers to take part in our first survey, relating to tyres for the 2016 season.

http://goo.gl/forms/m0qLLFayXA

Please be aware, these questions are to gauge opinions only, and to be used to help form potential proposals for 2016.
We will close the survey at the end of the month, and publish the results soon after.

EC

AARCMCC EP ONR 11-28-2015 04:45 PM

Here are the results from the control tyre survey... makes for some interesting reading.
Thanks to all who completed the survey, we had a total of 170 responses which is excellent.

Firstly the results of pre-glued vs un-glued are shown here
Pre-glued - 62.4%
Either - 21.8%
Un-glued - 15.9%

This shows a clear favour towards utilising pre-glued tyres for sanctioned events in the future.

The second survey results are here
$40.00 - 45.9%
$35.00 - 44.1%
$37.50 - 10%

The second survey had a far more interesting result with it being a close run thing between $35 and $40 in terms of max price for tyres.

Again thanks to all those who responded, it has provided some useful information to allow us to move forward for next year.

EC

AARCMCC EP ONR 11-28-2015 05:06 PM

Next on the agenda this morning, and following the above results.

Clubs have been emailed three rule proposals to vote on, please check with your clubs that they have been received and voted on. The closing date for votes is the 29th Dec 2015

Proposal 001: Pre-glued Control tyres
Submitted by Adrenalin Arena (VIC)

Proposal Background
The reason for this change is to enhance racing and save time at title events. Whilst there have been issues in the passed pre-glued tyre technology has improved and is more reliable than racers gluing there own tyres.

Current regulation
9.5.5.4 Tire assemblies should not to be pre-glued –This is to prevent any disadvantage to the racer for poorly glued tires. Submissions to nominate for a control tire indicate if pre-glued.

Proposed Regulation (alterations in red)
9.5.5.4 Tyre assemblies are preferred to be pre-glued – Submissions to nominate for a control tyre indicate if pre glued or un-glued are to be used.



Proposal 002: Tyre Price Limit
Submitted by Adrenalin Arena (VIC)

Proposal Background
The reason for this change is the price cap of $35 has been in place since 2008 and the price of control tyres has increased due to inflation. Due to the recent drop in AUD several commonly used tyres ie MM Rush have had price increases of 17-20% in the last 12 months which the cost to clubs is above the $35 price cap.
Increasing the price cap to $40 will provide clubs with more control tyre options, whilst still making some profit on tyres.

The rules also ensure clubs cannot charge $40 for $20 tyres.

Current regulation
1.1.1.1 All tires used for the event should be supplied from the same manufactured batch wherever possible. Competitors will purchase tires for competition through the host club at the race meeting. A maximum price cap of AUD$35.00 per set (4 tires, inserts and wheels), that is payable by the entrant will be fixed.

Proposed Regulation (alterations in red)
1.1.1.1 All tires used for the event should be supplied from the same manufactured batch wherever possible. Competitors will purchase tyres for competition through the host club at the race meeting.
Tyre sets (4 tyres, inserts and wheels):
1. Maximum price limit of $40.00 a set
2. Must be sold at less than RRP




Proposal 003: Rule Proposal Submissions
Submitted by SMA (NSW)

Proposal Background
The reason for the change is to bring the EP ONR section in line with EP OFR, and allow the section committee to submit proposals as well as clubs.
This allows the committee to follow a more pro-active role in rule changes, but does not affect the requirement for any proposals to still be voted on by the clubs alone.

Current regulation
1.2.2 AARCMCC may submit rule changes where changes are made to relevant IFMAR or ROAR rules.

Proposed Regulation (alterations in red)
1.2.2 The AARCMCC Executive may submit rule change proposals for affiliated clubs to vote on. These proposals should include, but are not limited to, those corresponding to changes made to relevant IFMAR and ROAR rules. Such proposals must follow the same procedures as those made by Affiliated AARCMCC On Road Clubs.

Results for all proposals will be posted asap after voting has closed, with the intention to have any rule changes set for the January 1st deadline (as per the current rule 1.2.7)

EC

No9 11-28-2015 09:41 PM

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Radio Active 11-29-2015 07:45 PM


Originally Posted by AARCMCC EP ONR (Post 14284179)
Next on the agenda this morning, and following the above results.

Clubs have been emailed three rule proposals to vote on, please check with your clubs that they have been received and voted on. The closing date for votes is the 29th Dec 2015

Proposal 001: Pre-glued Control tyres
Submitted by Adrenalin Arena (VIC)

Proposal Background
The reason for this change is to enhance racing and save time at title events. Whilst there have been issues in the passed pre-glued tyre technology has improved and is more reliable than racers gluing there own tyres.

Current regulation
9.5.5.4 Tire assemblies should not to be pre-glued –This is to prevent any disadvantage to the racer for poorly glued tires. Submissions to nominate for a control tire indicate if pre-glued.

Proposed Regulation (alterations in red)
9.5.5.4 Tyre assemblies are preferred to be pre-glued – Submissions to nominate for a control tyre indicate if pre glued or un-glued are to be used.



Proposal 002: Tyre Price Limit
Submitted by Adrenalin Arena (VIC)

Proposal Background
The reason for this change is the price cap of $35 has been in place since 2008 and the price of control tyres has increased due to inflation. Due to the recent drop in AUD several commonly used tyres ie MM Rush have had price increases of 17-20% in the last 12 months which the cost to clubs is above the $35 price cap.
Increasing the price cap to $40 will provide clubs with more control tyre options, whilst still making some profit on tyres.

The rules also ensure clubs cannot charge $40 for $20 tyres.

Current regulation
1.1.1.1 All tires used for the event should be supplied from the same manufactured batch wherever possible. Competitors will purchase tires for competition through the host club at the race meeting. A maximum price cap of AUD$35.00 per set (4 tires, inserts and wheels), that is payable by the entrant will be fixed.

Proposed Regulation (alterations in red)
1.1.1.1 All tires used for the event should be supplied from the same manufactured batch wherever possible. Competitors will purchase tyres for competition through the host club at the race meeting.
Tyre sets (4 tyres, inserts and wheels):
1. Maximum price limit of $40.00 a set
2. Must be sold at less than RRP




Proposal 003: Rule Proposal Submissions
Submitted by SMA (NSW)

Proposal Background
The reason for the change is to bring the EP ONR section in line with EP OFR, and allow the section committee to submit proposals as well as clubs.
This allows the committee to follow a more pro-active role in rule changes, but does not affect the requirement for any proposals to still be voted on by the clubs alone.

Current regulation
1.2.2 AARCMCC may submit rule changes where changes are made to relevant IFMAR or ROAR rules.

Proposed Regulation (alterations in red)
1.2.2 The AARCMCC Executive may submit rule change proposals for affiliated clubs to vote on. These proposals should include, but are not limited to, those corresponding to changes made to relevant IFMAR and ROAR rules. Such proposals must follow the same procedures as those made by Affiliated AARCMCC On Road Clubs.

Results for all proposals will be posted asap after voting has closed, with the intention to have any rule changes set for the January 1st deadline (as per the current rule 1.2.7)

EC

I think this is a good start. I just wanted to make a few comments on the proposals.

003

I'll start with proposal 003. This is a good change. We've had this rule in EP ORF for about 4 years now. It was one of a suite of changes MORCC proposed to the procedures around rule changes right after the rule book had been updated in ~2011.

Prior to that changes had been made in a sometimes ad-hoc way. Sometimes we saw the executive not following the legislated procedures simply because it was hard for them to make changes with the rules the way they were. The executive we expect to be pro-active to fix things when they're broken, but the rules made it hard and so sometimes we'd see the entire process skipped.

So, what MORCC proposed was a suite of changes that made it easy for the Executive to take the lead, but at the same time ensure the clubs retained decision making power.

The current proposal 003, is the most fundamental change. It has worked well. And it's partly responsible for EP OFR having an up-to-date rule set while the EP ONR has stagnated. So, I endorse the proposal.

I hope that once this goes through then the rest of the suite of rules around how rule change votes take place are also looked at for implementation in EP ONR.


002

Nobody likes to see prices go up, but in this case it does seem necessary. The exchange rate was 20% better when the current $35 limit was set. My understanding is that tyres that have been used as controls in recent times are now over the current price limit and this is causing problems.

Very important is condition 2. which says the club must charge less than the RRP. I think this stops the racer being price-gouged.


001

I don't have much to say about this, not racing TC much myself. I do race offroad and hate spending all my nights racing gluing up tyres. If the tech is now reliable then it seems like a good idea.

It does seem that fewer manufacturers are making unglued tyres available, so it makes sense to change the rules on that basis.


-----

I've also been hearing that the Executive are actually enforcing the control tyre rules around selection! Fantastic! There is no point in having rules if they aren't enforced. And all of the rules in the book have been put there for a reason. Mostly they are there to protect racers and as much as possible ensure a good event by ensuring reliable 'known quantity' tyres that perform well on the circuit are used. This can only be a good thing.

Blui3 11-30-2015 12:30 AM


Originally Posted by AARCMCC EP ONR (Post 14267365)
As part of our remit to listen to the racers, we would like to invite racers to take part in our first survey

Can a survey request also go to clubs web admins so they can put it on there forum too.

AARCMCC EP ONR 11-30-2015 01:21 AM

Thanks for the support.
We put quite a lot of thought and a number of hours debating across three meetings before considering this worthy of putting to the clubs. We want to be confident of rule changes being either accepted or get a clear message from clubs as to what they do want so we have unison around the country.

On the tyres, due to the $35 limit we are fast approaching a situation where their is only 1 (maybe 2) viable tyre brands. Not good.

And you are correct on RRP, it's super important. The cap is just that, a cap. If a club is using cheaper tyres - then that should be passed through. All for clubs making a margin as a benefit of their negotiation or bulk buy - but not at the expense of racers pockets.

As for glue - we are not ruling out un-glued (just as the previous rule didn't actually rule out pre-glued) just stating that because pre-glued is a reliable, viable, well supported option it should be the preference. And it saves time and resources!!


Originally Posted by Radio Active (Post 14285604)
I've also been hearing that the Executive are actually enforcing the control tyre rules around selection! Fantastic! There is no point in having rules if they aren't enforced. And all of the rules in the book have been put there for a reason. Mostly they are there to protect racers and as much as possible ensure a good event by ensuring reliable 'known quantity' tyres that perform well on the circuit are used. This can only be a good thing.

Yes.

We see ourselves as having a responsibility to ensure all best endeavours to meet the rules - or the intent of the rules - is met at sanctioned events.

Further, rather than go around a rule or not care if clubs ignore the rules if and when it's not agreed with, be an advocate for change of the rules and ensure they keep up with advances and movements in the hobby but also be mindful of trends and fashion that come and go.

CS

AARCMCC EP ONR 11-30-2015 01:27 AM


Originally Posted by Blui3 (Post 14285805)
Can a survey request also go to clubs web admins so they can put it on there forum too.

More than happy to "notify" clubs via here or Facebook for survey type matters which we view as informal.

We would prefer to keep "correspondence" with clubs via email to formal matters though so as to not bombard them and create confusion between survey of racers and voting of clubs.

Does your club have a FB page? Or have you personally seen ours? Liking and sharing our FB page is a great way to get these sorts of things maximum exposure. We're rapidly approaching 200 likes - a good solid audience!

We have used the surveys to gauge an approximate interest in a matter - but it is in no way is to circumvent the formal process as required by the tech regs and AARCMCC constitution.

Does that make sense?

CS

AARCMCC EP ONR 12-05-2015 01:56 AM

We have recently become aware that due to a manufacturing fault some 21.5T and 13.5T approved motors (more than one brand) do not meet the technical specifications.

To be legal for use at AARCMCC sanctioned events the motor needs to be ROAR, BRCA, or EFRA approved AND also meet the technical specifications.
Technical specifications are listed in AARCMCC EP On-Road General & Technical Rules, key dimensions for 21.5T and 13.5T are listed below.

Buying an approved motor does not guarantee that the motor meets the technical specifications and does not guarantee that the motor is legal for use at AARCMCC sanctioned events.


It is the racers responsibility to ensure that their gear is legal. See the instructions below for measuring your motor to make sure it is legal.

If your motor does not meet these requirements we suggest that you return it for a refund or replacement.


http://www.teamtekin.com/news/tekin-...spect-a-motor/


Motor Can
Maximum diameter is 36.02mm excluding solder tabs or lead wires.
Minimum diameter is 34.00mm excluding solder tabs or lead wires.
Maximum length is 53.00mm

Stator 21.5T & 13.5T
Stack minimum length 19.30mm, maximum 21.00mm.
Stack inside diameter minimum 14.50mm, maximum 16.00mm.
The thickness of the stack plates is 0.35 +/- 0.05mm.

Rotor 21.5T & 13.5T
Shaft diameter must be 3.175mm.
The shaft outside diameter, where the magnet is mounted, shall be minimum 7.25 +/- 0.150mm.
Magnet minimum length 23.00mm, maximum 27.00mm.
Magnet outside diameter minimum 12.00mm, maximum 12.51mm

nexxus 12-06-2015 02:42 AM

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to what brand(s) are impacted?

cplus 12-06-2015 03:12 AM

...


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