I assume the experts are the Cell manufacturers. And then second would be the people with much experiance Matching cells. But I could be wrong.

I am using Upper case again in some messages directed towards Canon. I am trying to get it through his thick head that I agree with him that Sanyo cells are Not competative and I also agree the IB4200's are the most competative cells on the track. But for some reason he just wont acknowledge I agree with him. Instead he turns around and continues to accuse me of not agreeing with him.

Charles

Mick and Tony ... I think we most likely have a TROLL.

Simple solution for us .... no more replies and the Troll dies

I will not post again .... originally tried to help but now it is stupid

Goodbye Charles, please Troll somewhere else

sh1t 8 pages of this crap!?

I am not sure what you are saying. Are you saying that the 2 Matched sets I purchased were not destroyed by the person who matched them ?

If that is the case, then what is your opinion on what went wrong ?

I am sorry that yourself and Canon took offence at that comment. But the comment is based on my experiance with new matched cells I bought recently. I am just being honest on what has happened to me recently.

I must admit I have not purchased dozens of matched sets. But the ones I have purchased have never been able to perform like the figures printed on them. That is why I said they seemed like total BS. If they are not BS then it only prooves that the cells were damaged during the tests. It can take a week before the chemicals in the cell can show the sign of damage. When I do get a set that does perform like the figures then I will glady buy from that Matcher forever.

Sometimes I do believe other peoples test results. I certainly agree that the IB4200's are the best performing cell on the track. I don't even need to test them. It's obvious simply because they have higher capacity. But on other claims that appear suspect I will not believe it before I test it myself.


Charles

Hehehehe. Even when I say I agree with you, You still continue to be abusive towards me. Why is it so hard to accept I believe what you are saying about the IB4200's being the most competative cells available. Why cant you also accept when I agree with you that the Sanyo calls are not competative.

This seems like a completly useless argument. I agree with what you say and in the next message you accuse me of diss-agreeing..... If agreeing with you is Stupid then that says it all !.

Making a simple comment like "Sanyo Cells are Junk" is not helping anyone at all. That just sounds like a very biased opinion with no facts to back it up.


Charles

It's not completly crap. Their has been some usefull information posted but it seems like some try hard to bury it by pilling a great deal of crap on top of it.


Charles

Mosc, you seem strung up over the figures, and also whether they are replicable. which is a fair enough point. Considering you are so insistant on a scientific method of verification i would of assumed that you kept in mind other variables when the matchers came up with those figure you are disputing.

ie, variables such as;

-matching equipment used
-room temp
-condition of battery

post test variables can also be;
-temps cells are exposed to after matching (ie extreme cold/heat)
-transporting methods (bumps etc)
-time left on shelf

you've got 6 variables that can work together, or individually to alter results when you conduct them. Even if you used the right equipment and room temp, and somehow replicated the cells original conditions during the matchers first time matching them (which is impossible because the cells have already been matched ) you would still have another 3 variables to consider.

so basically you are stuffed. you can't replicate the numbers. end of story.

sure, some matchers might *cough* talk up their numbers, but i doubt any Ausssie matcher needs to do this. Greg pritty much has the Sydney cells racer market stitched up when it comes to trackside sales. i don't think he fudges them. Performance speaks for itself also.


......why did i even reply to this bodgy boring thread!

Ok. What you said makes a lot of sense.

One figure I am interested in is how the Matching equipment is measuring the Internal resistance. I have read about 3 differant methods that can be used. The generaly accpeted method that is most accurate is the 1 kHz 1 Amp Square wave. This is what the manufactures use. Of the other 2 methods, One gives very high values and the other gives very low values. I am wondering which method the Matching equipment uses. If they are using the one that gives very low values that would explain why the Internal Resistance is very differant from what the figures are on the cell.

And the mAh one I am not sure what is going on. Raw cells rarly achieve their rated capacity. Manufacturers usualy give a range of values. And more often than not they are at the lower end of the range when you test them. Yet when you look at the figures printed on the cell by the matching equipment they seem to be almost exactly the rated capacity of the cell. They dont actualy print it so you have to calculate it based on Discharge current and Runtime.

As I said a while ago I made my own very accuratly calibrated instrument to measure the cells Capacity. And most cells I have tested have been around %92, except the very poor quality ones or the damaged ones. It also uses the 1 kHz 1 Amp Square wave to measure the internal resistance. It's the internal resistance that seems to be so differant to the figures.

I have read some information on the Net about how some Matchers can change the settings on the matching equipment to give higher results. I am not accusing anyone of this. Just stating I have read how they do it.


Charles

Is Greg the bloke from Harris R-C ?


On a completly differant off-topic question. I bought this Car about 5-7 years ago, and for the life of me I cant recall what model or manufacturer it is. From memory it was around $700 that long ago just for the Chasis.

Does anyone have any comments on what this chasis is ?. It has all the bells and whistles. Even by todays standards. I added the Motor, Servo, Receiver etc.

The chasis is still in excellent condition. It was nearly always run on an indoor carpeted track. And a couple of times on a concrete track.


Charles

It's an Express.

if you paid $700 you got well and truley ripped.

"It has all the bells and whistles. Even by todays standards."

Thanks for the great laugh I love to start the day with a good joke.

Heavy

charles

if what you are saying was correct why are we not all running sanyo cells? if they were better and they are not you would see every world title and national championship and lowly club day being won with sanyo. This is not taking place....

Do you think its a conspiracy to lower the share price of sanyo from the RC community by not using their cells?

We are a fickle bunch who chase the best cell constantly, we all ran with sanyo for years in the 80's and 90's but they are not up to the task now.

You should bring your cells and your car up to the tack and give them a run. If they are so good as you say throughout this most brain numbing thread then you should be able to do a couple of things.

1 beat us with your cells
2 get hired by sanyo PR/Marketing/Sales
3 start your own matching business where we can all buy these great sanyo cells from you

perhaps they will be evencheaper than the current cells, which would be great. liek I said we are fickle, we will change brands, show us they are better watch the money roll in.....

c'mon heavy, like the sanyo cell its got all the bells and whistles. its just a decade too late. well it does have four wheels and the sanyo cell is shaped like a battery....

Charles,

This is hard for me to admit, but here we go:

I was wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. I thought you had plumbed the depths of cluelessness days ago. But you showed me and you showed be good! I am devastated to realise just how wrong I could be.

Just as I am sure Greg is devastated to find he has lost any chance of a sale for Harris RC.


To all readers of this mindless thread:
This guy has a totally closed mind and has shown contempt and total disrepect for assistance and advice from just about everybody including the three guys who are arguably the most knowlegable in RC battery matching in Australia at the moment. Why on earth does anybody actually try to be helpful? At least I wanted, earned, deserved and have thoroughly enjoyed his contempt and disrespect.

And if that is not a personal attack on Matchers, let me just say this:

I have read some information on the Net about how Mosc_007 is a know nothing idiot. I am not accusing him of this. Just stating I have read that he is.

Dam i am soooooooooo CONFUSED NOW Please can some one help.

Am i now working for Greg Or is Greg working for me?

Do I own Ferral Batteries or Or does Greg own Harris??

I truely thought it was obvious who owns what But it just proves the ignorance of some

WEB SEARCH :

Harris Rc = Tony
Ferall Rc = Greg

end of posts

Charles,

For our entertainment for this evening, I have just destroyed 24 Sanyo RC3600 cells and 24 IB4200 cells.

I did this by

1. Charging at 10c

2. Discharging at between 50-100amps

3. Exposing the cells to extremes of heat tempreture

I can now say that the Sanyo and the IB with confidence "vent/expolde Voilently" when exposed to these enviroments.

OK the IB werent WC or SHV cells but neither where the Sanyos the top cells.

Sanyo cells will explode the same as IB cells when stresss to simular conditions IE: 3c charge for each and 20c discharge for each based on there ratings ie: 3600 v 4200

There is a quality diference between the cells. The IB handle the high charge and discharge cycles 6 more times than the sanyos.

Remember, we uses sanyo cells so i know the failure rates down to a "t".

So that your notion that the sanyo cells are a better quality cell is now gone.

I have the proof and feel free to pm me for results. I am not able to give out some specific info but the rest your free to have.

Now why do we do this?? As a Multinational company, our reputation is on the line with the quality of the cells we have in our batteries. So we undertake varios tests on many types of cell as our cells are subject to loads in excess of 20c at times to preform the task at hand.

We are the only company which offers a warranty greater than 12 months on our batteries for trade use so i do know what im talking about.

PS its great having a R&D department who lets me do these "Tests" for reseach.