Mosc_007

Someone earlier made a comment about the Internal resistance of Sanyo cells being poor compared to IB4200's. I tried to find the post but couldnt be bothered going thru them all again.

Anyway, Here is the actual data taken directly from the manufatcures data sheets. And anyone can confirm this data by simply downloading the data sheets and looking for themselves.

IB4200 - Typical 5 milli Ohms.
RC3600HV - Approx 4 milli Ohms.
GP3700 - Average 3 milli Ohms.

That does explain why the Raw sanyo has a higher average voltage at 10 amps than do the Raw IB cells.

I cant test my GP3700's as all 6 cells are stuffed. I expect they would have the highest average voltage from all of them based on the Internal resistance.


Charles

Mosc_007

I have to agree %100. It is amazing how much information people just believe without doing any testing or research for themselves. I am getting a good laugh as well.

It's also amazing how people jump to conclusions on what I am saying instead of actualy reading the words I am writing. I am NOT saying that Sanyo RC3600HV cells are better than IB4200 cells. It's just the one particular discharge current were they are better. I have no doubt the IB4200's perform better on the track. As long as they dont explode on you


Charles

Patriiick

iTrader: (3)

So then, what s the point of doing 30+ posts about it?

You are trying to say:
-over non-statistical data (unless you have tested hundreds of batteries, from both makers, with similar storage conditions and so on..)
-that somehow, over non-real-life conditions (10a discharge)
you have detected lower IR on the sanyos ??

but that on the track it s not so ?

Monaro_Racing

I had unmatched 3300's once i.e. Untouched cells, I then picked up some matched 3300's and they blew the unmatched cells out of the water and are still going strong 2 or more years after purchase.

what was the difference? the matched cells all has similar numbers on each cell in the pack and charges and discharged at similar rates so you get a consistant pack, the unmatched all has one or more cells that were not as good as the others and would dump at different intervals, this puts stress on the weaker cell/s and can cause damage to them....

If you are planing on being at the front in any class these days you will need matched 4200's. I now run matched GP4300's and cannot keep up with the guys running the 4200's and it wont matter what class I run in because the voltage out of the 4200's is that much better than anything else you have been able to get upto this point (Li-Po excluded)
Oh, and why post the question if you are not willing to listen to the advice you get from the people who know, like Cannon, he does this for a living and is one of the best in the buisness.

Monaro_Racing

Where is your proof that "thousands die" during matching. Cannon (a matcher) said he loses 5%........

and if thousands die then Billions will be fine. I have seen one IB4200 cell die at our club and it was replaced by the matcher within 3 days of it happening for free.

ozoner

iTrader: (7)

An open letter to the owners of Harris RC and Feral Racing.

Which of you will be the first to supply these great IB3600 (edit : or Sanyo 3600) cells I keep hearing about? I have been told that they're seriously good - as good as the new gen cells in a lot of cases.

It would seem that despite the fact that you have tens of thousands of dollars invested in your businesses, hundreds (thousands?) of satisfied local customers, and have years of experience and knowledge behind you in batteries designed specifically for the RC market, you have been caught with your pants down this time. It appears that you don't know what you're on about.

We - the racers - look forward to seeing which of you can capitalise on this wonderful opportunity to provide this fantastic cell. Thank GOD it's already AARCMCC, ORRCA, VORTEC, ROAR, EFRA, etc approved, so we can get on with winning some races soon.

-Scott (on behalf of the racing community)

sand_muncher

Ok there has been a lot of discussion on cells and their quality but there are only a couple of names availiable at a reasonable cost and they are IB, GP's and now East power. East power being the newer product around, and this is a question that the matchers like Harris or Feral may know, what in their opinion is the better manufactured battery and which ones have the least failure rate during matching.

Andrew Barr

iTrader: (73)

The reason these cells exploded was due to fact that the users had failed to programme their chargers correctly. I know this for a fact. The delta peak was set too high on one occasion and the other times the charger was on a fixed charge time.

addicted

iTrader: (76)

Mr Harris
Over the years we have had many discussions and i remember once i think i mentioned to you"if you every get out of matching Scott you should become a comedian" I am so glad you have taken my advice and persued this career move.


Sand-Muncher I think people would now my view with this. But honestly i have never tried the EP cell so i cannot comment on that question honestly.

It would only be hear say from others..

-Tony

Mosc_007

It's not just a freak result. It was a value I found on both manufacturers data sheets. I then purchased the cells. Tested the cells and confirmed the Data sheets from the manufacturers. At a 10 Amp discharge current the Sanyo Cells are better. Any higher value the IB4200's are better.

The reasosn the IB4200's will be better on the track is because for some reason the Sanyo's start to slightly reduce above a 10 amp discharge.


Charles

Mosc_007

Please read the WHOLE thread before commenting on this. It was the Matcher himself that said he has had Thousands of IB4200's die during matching.

It was near page 1 or maybe page 2.


Charles

Mosc_007

True, But you have failed to mention he was using a Temperature sensor. And when using a Temperature sensor it doesnt matter what value you use for the -ve Delta V as the Temperature sensor will stop the charge at a safe level. I noticed in the thread people all wanted to blame the bloke who owned the battery. No one would even consider it was caused by poor Quality cells.

When charging a set of flat cells at 6 amps the cell will ALWAYS trip the temperature sensor BEFORE the Zero Delta Peak Trips. Even at 1C they usualy trip the temperature sensor before fully charged. Assuming it is set to the recommended value for NiMH cells. Like around 50-51 Degrees C.

Besides that, Back several years no matter what you did to the batteries they never exploded Violently. They used to Vent Violently but not explode violently.


Charles

Besercoe

iTrader: (9)

Who is the more of a veggie, the one discussing merits of discharge below 10 amps for racing batteries or all those who have tried to uphold a discussion with him

mick_waite

Brad,

I resemble that remark!

I would however like to point out that responding to this thread is a lot like picking a scab.
You know you shouldn’t.
You know if you do, it just won’t get better.
You know any pleasure you get out of it is absolutely mindless.
But sometimes you just can’t help yourself.

As per my comments above, while I am here, I know I shouldn’t, but what the hell.

A weak, poorly contructed and sealed container will split if too much pressure builds up inside.
A strong, well constructed and sealed container will hold a lot more pressure. The down side of this that when it fails it will fail in a bigger way.
Maybe the problem is that the newer cells are BETTER contructed. (Remember the rules. Upper case is used to indicate that it is unarguably true and I am not interested in any sensible argument on the issue!)

Z-Mann

yes the delta peak was set to high,my fault ,thgough i usually monitor a repeak, as ive lost my temp sensor....but on that occasion i was asked to help build the track..............and yes it went off like a shot gun...........never charge or repeak your batteries unattended