Matched Cell Problems.
01-13-2007, 05:40 PM
#1
Matched Cell Problems.
Firstly, I have been out of the RC 1/10th onroad scene for a number of years.
Both my cars use saddle packs so the only batteries easily available are matched sets.
I was using Sanyo RC3000 Zapped and matched sets years ago and never had any problems with them. Always ran at their rated capacity.
Anyway, They were sitting around for years and have died. So I decided to buy some new Matched sets. So far I am having problems with the latest matched sets I have purchased.
The First set I bought were GP3700's matched by Reedy (Realtime). I did a quick check on the cells voltage before I assembled them. Each cell was around 0.5 Volts. Lower than expect but I assumed they would be ok. After assembling the pack and cycling them a few times the results I got were VERY poor. At a 10 Amp discharge I am only getiing 2700 mAh. At a 20 Amp discharge I am getting 2500 mAh. Because I already assembled the pack the supplier would not replace them........ So I am stuck with a useless set ot cells.
The Second set I bought were Intellect 4200's matched by Phantom. On testing the cells before assembly I found 2 of the cells were on ZERO volts. I tried to bring them up but they would not rise untill I pumped 6 amps into them. One of them came up and held a charge for a few hours then discharged back down to ZERO volts. The Second cell would only come up to about 0.8 Volts and as soon as I took it off the charger it discharged back to ZERO volts in about 30 seconds and got very hot........ I returned them and got a refund.
It seems that some people matching cells these days are actualy destroying the cells during matching.
Has anybody else had problems like this with new matched cells recently ?
I have now purchased 12 Unmatched Sanyo RC3600HV and am currently testing them. All cells were on 1.1x Volts.
I have also purchased 2 x Intellect 4200 standard Stick packs. And they performed extreamly well. One pack was 4222 mAh at a 20 Amp discharge rate and the average cell votlage was just under 1.2 volts. At a 10 Amp discharge rate the average voltage was 1.37 volts.
Since the latest cells are already High Voltage cells direct from the manufacturer their is no reason to Zap them. And as for matching, is it realy worth it nowdays after buying 2 Matched sets and finding both had been destroyed by the person matching them. The Stickers on the Cells seemed like total BS. They might have got those figures once but destroyed the cells in the process.
I am using a SuperNova Competition charger.
Charles
Both my cars use saddle packs so the only batteries easily available are matched sets.
I was using Sanyo RC3000 Zapped and matched sets years ago and never had any problems with them. Always ran at their rated capacity.
Anyway, They were sitting around for years and have died. So I decided to buy some new Matched sets. So far I am having problems with the latest matched sets I have purchased.
The First set I bought were GP3700's matched by Reedy (Realtime). I did a quick check on the cells voltage before I assembled them. Each cell was around 0.5 Volts. Lower than expect but I assumed they would be ok. After assembling the pack and cycling them a few times the results I got were VERY poor. At a 10 Amp discharge I am only getiing 2700 mAh. At a 20 Amp discharge I am getting 2500 mAh. Because I already assembled the pack the supplier would not replace them........ So I am stuck with a useless set ot cells.
The Second set I bought were Intellect 4200's matched by Phantom. On testing the cells before assembly I found 2 of the cells were on ZERO volts. I tried to bring them up but they would not rise untill I pumped 6 amps into them. One of them came up and held a charge for a few hours then discharged back down to ZERO volts. The Second cell would only come up to about 0.8 Volts and as soon as I took it off the charger it discharged back to ZERO volts in about 30 seconds and got very hot........ I returned them and got a refund.
It seems that some people matching cells these days are actualy destroying the cells during matching.
Has anybody else had problems like this with new matched cells recently ?
I have now purchased 12 Unmatched Sanyo RC3600HV and am currently testing them. All cells were on 1.1x Volts.
I have also purchased 2 x Intellect 4200 standard Stick packs. And they performed extreamly well. One pack was 4222 mAh at a 20 Amp discharge rate and the average cell votlage was just under 1.2 volts. At a 10 Amp discharge rate the average voltage was 1.37 volts.
Since the latest cells are already High Voltage cells direct from the manufacturer their is no reason to Zap them. And as for matching, is it realy worth it nowdays after buying 2 Matched sets and finding both had been destroyed by the person matching them. The Stickers on the Cells seemed like total BS. They might have got those figures once but destroyed the cells in the process.
I am using a SuperNova Competition charger.
Charles
01-13-2007, 06:11 PM
#2
Tech Addict
You might want to try either Harris RC or Ferral next time you buy batteries, they are both australian matchers and no one I know has ever had any problems dealing with either of them and there prices are equal to or better than anything from the overseas.
http://www.harrisrc.com/
http://www.feralbatteries.com.au/
I have some 4300 GP packs from both Harris and Ferral and although not the best cell to begin with they are all still going strong (they are about a year old now)
http://www.harrisrc.com/
http://www.feralbatteries.com.au/
I have some 4300 GP packs from both Harris and Ferral and although not the best cell to begin with they are all still going strong (they are about a year old now)
01-13-2007, 06:54 PM
#3
Charles,
The problem that you had was most probably that the cells were sitting around in a shop for too long. All the modern cells have a self discharge higher than earlier cells. This means that they will take their voltages down below 0.9 volts which means that they will drastically lose runtime.
The Sanyo 3600 that you have bought are old school cells. They will have no voltage and you will be not very competitive.
The IB4200 cells that you have had that had zero voltage is not uncommon. The IB cells can "self destruct" or zero themself quite (I literally have had 1000's of these wasted cells during matching)
Best choice is IB4200 matched cells but always keep some charge in them when not being used. Then discharge the day before you are wanting to use them for racing
The problem that you had was most probably that the cells were sitting around in a shop for too long. All the modern cells have a self discharge higher than earlier cells. This means that they will take their voltages down below 0.9 volts which means that they will drastically lose runtime.
The Sanyo 3600 that you have bought are old school cells. They will have no voltage and you will be not very competitive.
The IB4200 cells that you have had that had zero voltage is not uncommon. The IB cells can "self destruct" or zero themself quite (I literally have had 1000's of these wasted cells during matching)
Best choice is IB4200 matched cells but always keep some charge in them when not being used. Then discharge the day before you are wanting to use them for racing
01-13-2007, 11:30 PM
#4
Thanks for the replies.
The GP3700's could have been sitting around for ages. I bought them from a local hobby shop and they had been re-packaged from another store. The price had been dropped from the original packaging.
The Intellect ones on the other hand were from a store near the city and were only received just before I got them. (I had to wait for them) I have not heard of NiMH cells going short circuit. I thought this was only common with NiCD cells.
As for the Japanese made Sanyo RC3600HV, I have downloaded the data sheets and according to the data sheets they are quite comparable if not better than equivelent capacity cells from China. After I pre-condition them I will do some tests and see how they hold up. I know when I used the standard Sanyo RC3000 cells after they were zapped and matched they were extreamly good. The new Sanyo RC3600HV cells are already High Voltage cells the same as the chinese ones.
Charles
The GP3700's could have been sitting around for ages. I bought them from a local hobby shop and they had been re-packaged from another store. The price had been dropped from the original packaging.
The Intellect ones on the other hand were from a store near the city and were only received just before I got them. (I had to wait for them) I have not heard of NiMH cells going short circuit. I thought this was only common with NiCD cells.
As for the Japanese made Sanyo RC3600HV, I have downloaded the data sheets and according to the data sheets they are quite comparable if not better than equivelent capacity cells from China. After I pre-condition them I will do some tests and see how they hold up. I know when I used the standard Sanyo RC3000 cells after they were zapped and matched they were extreamly good. The new Sanyo RC3600HV cells are already High Voltage cells the same as the chinese ones.
Charles
01-13-2007, 11:59 PM
#5
Charles,
Unless Sanyo has released a brand new cell last week, the Sanyo 3600HV cells wewre a complete disaster. They do not have the voltage anywhere near the IB or Eastpower cells. You will notice that no one is matching them around the world because of their poor performance
Cheers
Unless Sanyo has released a brand new cell last week, the Sanyo 3600HV cells wewre a complete disaster. They do not have the voltage anywhere near the IB or Eastpower cells. You will notice that no one is matching them around the world because of their poor performance
Cheers
01-14-2007, 02:55 AM
#6
just opened a brand new pack of matched IB wc 4200s
these are the voltages of the untouched single cells
1 .00
2. .00
3 .80
4 ..94
5 .1.09
6 .74
wtf is with cells 1 & 2 no voltage???
these are the voltages of the untouched single cells
1 .00
2. .00
3 .80
4 ..94
5 .1.09
6 .74
wtf is with cells 1 & 2 no voltage???
i saw the picture up on a japanese hobbyshop site. 
01-14-2007, 01:01 PM
#10
Tom B ... just another battery manufacturer out of China 
Z Mann - at a guess I would say that the pack had been stored too long. You have 5 useless cells in that pack. Anything that rests below 1.0 volt will have lost a lot of runtime. I would suggest returning the pack to the store/person you purchased from
Testig is easy .... a simple voltmeter will tell you. Any cell resting below 1.0 volt is in trouble
Z Mann - at a guess I would say that the pack had been stored too long. You have 5 useless cells in that pack. Anything that rests below 1.0 volt will have lost a lot of runtime. I would suggest returning the pack to the store/person you purchased from
Testig is easy .... a simple voltmeter will tell you. Any cell resting below 1.0 volt is in trouble
01-14-2007, 01:34 PM
#11
01-14-2007, 01:55 PM
#12
Could be the new Powerizer cell?
01-14-2007, 06:00 PM
#13
Originally Posted by cannon
Charles,
Unless Sanyo has released a brand new cell last week, the Sanyo 3600HV cells wewre a complete disaster. They do not have the voltage anywhere near the IB or Eastpower cells. You will notice that no one is matching them around the world because of their poor performance
Cheers
Unless Sanyo has released a brand new cell last week, the Sanyo 3600HV cells wewre a complete disaster. They do not have the voltage anywhere near the IB or Eastpower cells. You will notice that no one is matching them around the world because of their poor performance
Cheers
But with my latest experiances with Matched Cells I think I would prefer Untouched cells. Even if they are a little lower in voltage. Their is one thing that is certain. These Sanyo's I just bought are %100 better than the last 2 sets of matched Chinese cells I bought.
After I test them properly I will see what the real figures are comparing them to "Untouched" Chinese cells.
I would have assumed people are not matching them because of the Price. Japanese mades cells are a LOT more expensive than chinese cells. And in my experiance Japanese cells are more reliable than Chinese ones.
As has been stated by one matcher "I have had 1000's of IB4200's Die during matching". That alone is enough for me to stay away from those cells. Even if they are ok when you get them how long will they last ?.... They just dont survive the complete thrashing they get when being matched.
I see another person just posted a message with Zero'd cells. It seems that matching the IB4200's destroys them quite often ........
Charles
01-14-2007, 06:07 PM
#14
Just a warning to anyone buying matched cells.
As soon as you revieve them (Or better, before you buy them) put a voltmeter on Every cell. And if ANY cell is below 0.9 Volts then SEND them back for a refund.
As I have found and has also been agreed with, Any cell that is below 0.9 volts will have greatly reduced runtime.
A cell with 0.5 volts when supplied was only about %60 capacity. And a Cell with Zero volts is completly destroyed.
Beware, Matching these new technology cells quite often destroys them.....
As soon as you revieve them (Or better, before you buy them) put a voltmeter on Every cell. And if ANY cell is below 0.9 Volts then SEND them back for a refund.
As I have found and has also been agreed with, Any cell that is below 0.9 volts will have greatly reduced runtime.
A cell with 0.5 volts when supplied was only about %60 capacity. And a Cell with Zero volts is completly destroyed.
Beware, Matching these new technology cells quite often destroys them.....
01-14-2007, 06:36 PM
#15
Charles,
You need to learn a lot about the current crop of cells. Yes the IBcells have a relatively high failure rate as do all of the high voltage cells. This unfortunately is part of a problem being addresssed by the manufacturers.
However, whoever sold you the Sanyo cells is a bigger crook because these cells are so uncompetitive Sanyo virtually vanished from the market a couple of years ago. Yes they will most probably still show 1.1 volts but that is the best they will be. All other brands are achieving 1.23-1.24 volts which means you will be laps behind.
It has nothing to do with price. The simple fact is that Sanyo are poor performing cells.
This post is not aimed at you but rather the fact that there is a bit of misunderstanding on your behalf. You could give new racers the impression that the Sanyo cells are better ... which they are NOT
You need to learn a lot about the current crop of cells. Yes the IBcells have a relatively high failure rate as do all of the high voltage cells. This unfortunately is part of a problem being addresssed by the manufacturers.
However, whoever sold you the Sanyo cells is a bigger crook because these cells are so uncompetitive Sanyo virtually vanished from the market a couple of years ago. Yes they will most probably still show 1.1 volts but that is the best they will be. All other brands are achieving 1.23-1.24 volts which means you will be laps behind.
It has nothing to do with price. The simple fact is that Sanyo are poor performing cells.
This post is not aimed at you but rather the fact that there is a bit of misunderstanding on your behalf. You could give new racers the impression that the Sanyo cells are better ... which they are NOT