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Old 02-27-2012, 12:22 PM   #3361
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I tried searching but didn't find exactly what I was looking for. I just bought an Mi4LP and will be racing it in the VTA class on high bite carpet, I ran it for some practice laps with the previous owners setup and the car was traction rolling all over the place, so I was looking to see if anyone had a setup sheet for this combination as a good starting point.

Thanks
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Old 02-27-2012, 01:19 PM   #3362
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Greets everyone,

First Schumacher kit (Mi4CXL) coming from Xray.

Been running off-road from a long hiatus and am stoked to get on the rug again.

A pleasant change is that I see this kit on equal terms of quality and materials to any Xray I've built.

First day on the carpet will be next Sunday. If it's drives as good as it looks on the bench, I'll be more than happy.
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Old 02-27-2012, 05:59 PM   #3363
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Thanks for all the reply's regarding servo savers.

I happened to swing by the LHS earlier today (before getting home to read this of course) and I picked up a servo saver that might cut it, but I have my doubts.
It is from the Associated MMGT, it has the height and is even kinda off set away from the top deck, was also pretty cheap. It may be a pile of crap but it also may work great. Will let everyone know.

I have been having huge issues with the back end being very loose coming off throttle. Having read all the tips people have posted on here about this same issue, I think my droop settings are a big cause. I have been using a mix of a couple different setup sheets and the car just felt wrong. I dont know enough about TC setup to really understand alot of the reasons why items are set the way they are. I have however come to the conclusion that I cant mix a set up sheet from a car with alloy suspension mounts and the plastic mounts I was using. So I have decided to finally bolt on the alloy mounts that came with the car that I had pulled off to keep my set up simple. So this alone will help me a great deal also.

Many pages back Martin Hoffer posted about using a calculator to figure out your steering toe settings. There wasn't alot of detail in the post so I would like to know how to do this? Does any one have an idea of what is involved with this calculation?

Thanks.
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:04 PM   #3364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aarivers View Post
I tried searching but didn't find exactly what I was looking for. I just bought an Mi4LP and will be racing it in the VTA class on high bite carpet, I ran it for some practice laps with the previous owners setup and the car was traction rolling all over the place, so I was looking to see if anyone had a setup sheet for this combination as a good starting point.

Thanks
VTA is rough. First, check to make sure the tires are well glued. Second, get that body trimmed and slammed down as far as you can.

How high are your hinge pins? Stock plastic holders? What about camber links?

I haven't run a VTA setup in a while, and usually didn't traction roll unless I tapped a dot/pipe. But things I'd try first are wider front / narrower rear (difficult with VTA), less front droop (keep the front end lower and flatter) and moving weight forward. Maybe thicker shock oils?

Skypilot posted a setup in response to one of my posts a while back, but I never tried that one verbatim. Might be worth a shot.

-Mike
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:08 PM   #3365
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Found some VTA notes.

-Mike

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Originally Posted by grippgoat View Post
I'm looking for ideas to make an Mi4 LP work better in VTA 21.5. I can't really say exactly what it is I'm looking for. Maybe more corner entry rotation, and just an overall more aggressive/responsive car. I've only run it for one race day, and I was running two classes, so I didn't have time to experiment much with it.

The setup I ran on the car this past weekend is long medium arms front and rear. Not sure about the shims to the bulkhead. Wheelbase shims are 2mm on both sides of the arm, front and rear. 3* rear toe. Normal hexes. No spacers under camber plates or balls. Inside hole on rear suspension. Lots of droop (don't have a number, just 3mm+ front and rear). Shocks in the middle hole. Gear diffs front and rear with Traxxas 500k front, and 60wt AE shock oil (~700cst?) rear. Blue front springs, white rear springs.

The one negative I noticed is that the car wanted to work the outside of the tires, even with 2.5* camber. I think this is because the tires are so tall, that dropping the chassis back down to about 6mm ride height, nevermind 5mm, the lower arms were angled enough that it was combatting the camber curve. Switching to 1-groove plates did help that. That would also raise the roll centers, in addition to the steeper camber curve, right?

I'm wondering if I should be trying to raise the roll centers from the lower arms. I have aluminum pivot blocks I could put on, but that'll only be worth 1mm front and 2mm rear. Should I even try running the arms 1mm higher in back, or would that just make the car handle really weird? Another idea I had was putting shims between the bulkheads and the chassis. That would raise the arms, but also raise the shock towers, diffs, and motor mount. But it would let me keep the electronics and battery lower. I think I could also angle motor down a bit to keep it from being so high.

Another thing I'm wondering about, but didn't have time to try, is blue rear springs. My line of thought being that the wide rear track reduces the motion ratio, effectively softening the rear suspension.

One fast local guy said he just put TC tires on the car, and set it up the way he would for TC, and then threw the VTA tires. That would result in a pretty high ride height, though. At least 7-8mm. That was with an Xray, but I don't remember which model.

The car is definitely good as-is. I finished 2nd in the main on saturday after qualifying 5th. The top 5 qualifiers were all doing fastest laps within 0.1 seconds of each other. The big difference came down to consistency. I'm honestly not sure if my fastest laps came from wider, faster cornering, or slower, tighter lines.

The car weighs 1509 grams, with about 735 front and 774 rear.

-Mike
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Originally Posted by skypilot View Post
Change the 500k to 50 of 100k in the front diff. Use the short ARM in the front, reduce rear toe to as little as possible. Reduce the amount of droop. Go back to the 3 groove plate, 2mm spacers under ball front and rear.
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Old 02-27-2012, 08:06 PM   #3366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outtafocus View Post
I have been having huge issues with the back end being very loose coming off throttle. Having read all the tips people have posted on here about this same issue, I think my droop settings are a big cause. I have been using a mix of a couple different setup sheets and the car just felt wrong. I dont know enough about TC setup to really understand alot of the reasons why items are set the way they are. I have however come to the conclusion that I cant mix a set up sheet from a car with alloy suspension mounts and the plastic mounts I was using. So I have decided to finally bolt on the alloy mounts that came with the car that I had pulled off to keep my set up simple. So this alone will help me a great deal also.
I found the alloy mount are a must have on the CX...not needed so far on my CXL.
CX-slam the rear hinge pins down and try 2.5 degrees of toe in the rear.
go from there.
remember take a couple of days to test setup and changes that you find to your liking.
my car is awesome at this time.
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:33 AM   #3367
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For those that have the CXL already what weight is your car ready to run with rubber tyres and any weights added ?

My CXL turned up today ready for building tomorrow but trying to figure out if i would be better off ordering normal sized lipo's or the shorty versions
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:48 AM   #3368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weekendracer_uk View Post
For those that have the CXL already what weight is your car ready to run with rubber tyres and any weights added ?

My CXL turned up today ready for building tomorrow but trying to figure out if i would be better off ordering normal sized lipo's or the shorty versions

I have change Alu screw and light pf Shell,

On the race this weekend i hade 1370 wight!
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Old 02-28-2012, 01:26 PM   #3369
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Originally Posted by olhipster1 View Post
for anyone wondering. I have my CXL weighing in at 1385g with a standard weight body (3 layers of paint, too much weight)
low profile servo installed.
Tekin RS Pro
LRP X12 17.5
MM high RPM fan
MyLaps Trnsdr
TI screws on lower deck only
5600 2s lipo 65C
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weekendracer_uk View Post
For those that have the CXL already what weight is your car ready to run with rubber tyres and any weights added ?

My CXL turned up today ready for building tomorrow but trying to figure out if i would be better off ordering normal sized lipo's or the shorty versions
I'm at 1385 ready to turn on and run.
I'm using a standard hardcase 2s Lipo.

added 5 grams to balance the car left to right...
the car is well under weight but as stated my current body on the car has a lot of paint on it...it's probable 15 grams overweight due to that.
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Old 02-28-2012, 08:54 PM   #3370
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BRCA min weight is 1350g here in the UK so looks as though i may have to go with the shorty lipo or run a good bit over weight.
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:45 PM   #3371
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Originally Posted by weekendracer_uk View Post
BRCA min weight is 1350g here in the UK so looks as though i may have to go with the shorty lipo or run a good bit over weight.
There are still light batteries to be found out there. I got an IP5000/50c in Hong Kong for $45 that weighs 275g. The Gens Ace 5000/40c was also about the same weight. I think pretty much any bullet 5000 pack will save 20-30g compared to a newer 5600+ pack.

The Tekin RS is also about 20g lighter than anything else out there.

I also recently switched my LP over to Ti screws, and was shocked at how much lighter it got. I didn't weight before/after, but it was easily 20g, maybe more.

My most recent setup with the LP, with the lw body, 275g battery, tekin rs, spektrum sr3100, and bls551, front gear diff... was around 1360g.

-Mike
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:07 AM   #3372
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Originally Posted by weekendracer_uk View Post
BRCA min weight is 1350g here in the UK so looks as though i may have to go with the shorty lipo or run a good bit over weight.
The Stumpy I put in my one was 80g lighter than the full size LiPo.
This caused the car to be heavy one sided, even after moving the ESC over, and I still had to add 35g of weight (movable ballast).
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:32 AM   #3373
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Originally Posted by weekendracer_uk View Post
BRCA min weight is 1350g here in the UK so looks as though i may have to go with the shorty lipo or run a good bit over weight.
i would not worry about getting to 1350g i think it can be done
but i usually try to be slightly over weight regs just in case tech happens.

plus i don't think 10 grams or so will make a big difference.

try running a 5000 2s standard pack that should get you in the range. balancing any car with shorty packs can be a challenge.
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:21 AM   #3374
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I do tend to run about 1355-1360g so i dont have to worry about checking weight when changing tyres etc.

Started the CXL build today and got a fair amount done, front camber and steering links to make up and then mounting the front wishbones so a few more hours tomorrow and i should be ready to test fit electrics and see what sort of weight im looking at with my gear. Need to check what lipos are on the BRCA list that have a good C rating and low in weight, no need for silly big 6800cap as i only use about 1200-1500 in 17.5 blinky.
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:23 AM   #3375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiMo View Post
The Stumpy I put in my one was 80g lighter than the full size LiPo.
This caused the car to be heavy one sided, even after moving the ESC over, and I still had to add 35g of weight (movable ballast).
How do you secure the stumpy ?
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