4LikesTamiya TRF416 / TRF416WE / TRF416X
02-02-2008, 02:38 PM
#1216
Tech Addict
02-02-2008, 03:02 PM
#1217
I copied the set up from Jilles and the car doesn't feel as good as it should. SO now here is the question regarding the hop up arms (short reversible arms 53928).
If I understand correctly D1 is for the front and D2 for the rear?
On the arms you can see a little stamp(inscription) D1 + D2.
Should this stamp be on the bottom or top?
Maybe this is why the car doesn't feel wright?
Thanks for the help!
If I understand correctly D1 is for the front and D2 for the rear?
On the arms you can see a little stamp(inscription) D1 + D2.
Should this stamp be on the bottom or top?
Maybe this is why the car doesn't feel wright?Thanks for the help!
To copy Jilles setup, you should have the shock mount in hole 2 (one in from the outer most). You may need to look closely at the arms to figure out which one is which, easiest way is too take a straight edge, and run it over the arm. Very easy then to figure out which shock mount to use.
I had another play with car tonight, tried some anti-dive on the front end, works very well. I still think I need to go softer on the shock oil though. As the track I'm running on is quite tight & twisty, might reduce the amount of shims down to 4mm under the front link tomorrow
HiH
Ed
02-02-2008, 10:10 PM
#1218
Tech Adept
hi all, i'm a friend of patrick jasmin's who make the spool. I'm running his spools from two years now. What I can say about his stuff is that is just amazing. What you need to know is that all of his spool are handmade. The tolerance he used are just crazy. Just some pice of art. He can take hours to make only one spool. All material he use have been tested and are the best compromised between endurance and performance!!
All guys that test it can't use others after market piece...don't hesitate to contact him, he is a very friendly guy!!
All guys that test it can't use others after market piece...don't hesitate to contact him, he is a very friendly guy!!
02-03-2008, 03:06 AM
#1219
I copied the set up from Jilles and the car doesn't feel as good as it should. SO now here is the question regarding the hop up arms (short reversible arms 53928).
If I understand correctly D1 is for the front and D2 for the rear?
On the arms you can see a little stamp(inscription) D1 + D2.
Should this stamp be on the bottom or top? Maybe this is why the car doesn't feel wright?
Thanks for the help!
If I understand correctly D1 is for the front and D2 for the rear?
On the arms you can see a little stamp(inscription) D1 + D2.
Should this stamp be on the bottom or top?
Maybe this is why the car doesn't feel wright?Thanks for the help!
I do not have Jille's setup in mind, but nearly every setup I've seen and used uses the hole n°2 on front and rear. That means, you need to have the D1/D2 inscription on top at the right hand side of the car on both front and rear arms.
02-03-2008, 03:13 AM
#1220
Whats this thread doing on the second page... tsk...
Anyway, don't mean to sound obtuse, but changing the track is kinda the point...
Basically changing the track width by a shorter suspesion arm is different to changing the track width by narrower blocks, as the hinge pins are then in a different position. I can prove that if you have a play around with the roll center calculator attached. Try adjusting just the arm type, and see how the setting changes.
And just to point out... the difference in length between the short and long arms is greater than any track change you can get by increasing the block width. There is 1.5mm and 1.0mm (F and R respectively) difference in pin lengths between the two types, so double thoose figures for overall track change (3mm F and 2mm R).
Changing from B/A to D/D increases the track by 1.25mm (versus 3mm shorter), XB/D to XA/E only increases the track by 0.5mm (versus 2mm shorter).
So even running the short arms with wide blocks (D/D and XA/E), you'll still be 1.75mm narrower on the front, and 1.5mm narrower on the rear, than if you were running kit blocks (B/A and XB/D) with long arms....
I'm not saying your wrong, hell I find the car works better with a wider block setup when running the short arms... I'm just saying, that effectively, it's more about getting the hinge pins in the right place for the best setting.
Regards
Ed
Anyway, don't mean to sound obtuse, but changing the track is kinda the point...
Basically changing the track width by a shorter suspesion arm is different to changing the track width by narrower blocks, as the hinge pins are then in a different position. I can prove that if you have a play around with the roll center calculator attached. Try adjusting just the arm type, and see how the setting changes.
And just to point out... the difference in length between the short and long arms is greater than any track change you can get by increasing the block width. There is 1.5mm and 1.0mm (F and R respectively) difference in pin lengths between the two types, so double thoose figures for overall track change (3mm F and 2mm R).
Changing from B/A to D/D increases the track by 1.25mm (versus 3mm shorter), XB/D to XA/E only increases the track by 0.5mm (versus 2mm shorter).
So even running the short arms with wide blocks (D/D and XA/E), you'll still be 1.75mm narrower on the front, and 1.5mm narrower on the rear, than if you were running kit blocks (B/A and XB/D) with long arms....
I'm not saying your wrong, hell I find the car works better with a wider block setup when running the short arms... I'm just saying, that effectively, it's more about getting the hinge pins in the right place for the best setting.
Regards
Ed
Shorter arms mean the roll centre drops faster and more when the suspension is compressed, but also that in a corner it moves sideways more. This changes the amount of grip in a corner and the way the car rolls more than anything else. I would tend to think that a car that doesn't roll much i.e. with very centered masses and low CoG) would need shorter arms to produce the same amount of grip. This is the main reason why the JRXS has such short arms...
02-03-2008, 08:41 AM
#1221
I beg to differ, the whole point of the short arms isn't in the track width, but in the behaviour of the roll centre during cornering.
Shorter arms mean the roll centre drops faster and more when the suspension is compressed, but also that in a corner it moves sideways more. This changes the amount of grip in a corner and the way the car rolls more than anything else. I would tend to think that a car that doesn't roll much i.e. with very centered masses and low CoG) would need shorter arms to produce the same amount of grip. This is the main reason why the JRXS has such short arms...
Shorter arms mean the roll centre drops faster and more when the suspension is compressed, but also that in a corner it moves sideways more. This changes the amount of grip in a corner and the way the car rolls more than anything else. I would tend to think that a car that doesn't roll much i.e. with very centered masses and low CoG) would need shorter arms to produce the same amount of grip. This is the main reason why the JRXS has such short arms...
02-03-2008, 09:27 AM
#1222
Tech Adept
HI GUYS...good news...
I belive tamiya just release 416 front direct coupling (49493) and
416 center one way set (49492)
I belive tamiya just release 416 front direct coupling (49493) and
416 center one way set (49492)
02-03-2008, 09:51 AM
#1223
02-03-2008, 12:52 PM
#1224
for those of you using D/D blocks up front... one of them is the bridge, yes?
cause the d block can't be flipped right?
cause the d block can't be flipped right?
02-03-2008, 12:57 PM
#1225
Tech Adept
TRF 416 Chassis parts
I'm going to test a 2,4 mm upper chassis and a 5 cell main chassis with the battery in the middle position. The carbon is stiffer and will take away some of the flex in the chassis. Even if the soft standard chassis seems to be working really well on carpet it will be interesting to test it.
CAD images
CAD images
02-03-2008, 01:20 PM
#1226
The D-Bridges don't fit...
Got back from a good day's racing today, running 10.5 indoors. Pretty much Victors setup from the DHI, apart from a couple of extra changes to try and get some more steering (45wt rear oil, 2.5mm inner shims under the rear link, rear shocks in hole 4, 1mm rear axle spacer). Car was very good at the start of the day, but as the traction came up I was struggling to get the front end tucked in tight. This may have more to do with my limited experience of having to drive with a bit of brake (the track was pretty tight...), than any inherent setup deficite, but I have a few things to try next time out.
I think some softer shock oil all round (45/40), and maybe a stiffer rear roll bar or less rear toe-in may help to free the car up when the grip comes up.
Having said that, car was very safe and easy to drive.... and the extra grunt of the 10.5 over a 27t was much more enjoyable
Only broke one part all day...suprisingly, it was a C-hub, and didn't realise for a bit, opps!! :smilePlus I was happily faster with the 416 versus my old 415 (admitdly in the hands of another driver)... although a large amount of that deficite is probably down to him still running a 1-way, where I'm certain a spool is faster.
Overall though, probably had the most fun at a meeting for a long time :... and now back to stock (
) for the next round of Carpet wars...improvements to the setup for stock to be tested then Regards
Ed
P.S. Setups attached... plus an improved blank sheet
02-03-2008, 05:59 PM
#1228
Tech Adept
mac853....
i got this info from tamiya america.....
i got this info from tamiya america.....
02-03-2008, 06:22 PM
#1229
I belive 3racing makes the metal c-hubs for the TA05 Ish? the 1 with
the front shocks laydowned and its the same C-hub for the 416.
the front shocks laydowned and its the same C-hub for the 416.
02-03-2008, 06:30 PM
#1230
Yes, I am running the 3Racing chubs. They are only like... less than $12 a pair from RCMarket. You have to shim differently above the spindle. I think I am using a 1mm shim. They are maybe alittle more sloppy than the stock ones. The carbon ones just break to damn easy. Even a simple side slap from another car seems to crack them. That's why I switched. I'll post a pic soon.