out_to_lunch

iTrader: (1)

Let's be sure to support the carpet track this winter; we don't want to have that season end short like the nitro season...

JB

Clegg

iTrader: (9)

John Kerry would be proud of that flip-flop

But you gotta do what you gotta do... I more than likely wont be down on the 17th though for electric since I did have some plans for Saturday night.

Clegg

iTrader: (9)

Some ideas for next year: (after thinking a bit about why the Den has such a shitty turnout for Nitro)

1. Market the track. Many people had no idea what was going on down there, or that the Den even ran nitro anymore. Get RCP to put up a sign or something, work something out with store owners in the population centers around.

2. Establish a RTR class, w/ spec kit, tires, fuel, etc... ( I do understand there is a minimum of people needed for a class, but if you foster a RTR class you more than likely will be able to get dad's and kids to start doing this).

3. Get Joe Brooks to stop being such a douche and buy a nitro car.

4. Work out a series between AJ's (Intense), the Den, Green Bay, and the Midwest Series when they are in the area for the nitro racing?

5. Possibly limit engine's that can be used? Such as making it a ROAR rules race?

6. Have cheap sets of tires for sale at the track (such as the 8$ pairs many of us were running this year) it would undercut mr Deals, but would make racing less painful. People go and see RCP and online where prices are up in the 17 - 20$ range for a set. That can easily push people away from nitro touring.

7. Start the races later in the day, instead of starting at 12, start at 2 or so. (unless the turnout starts to grow too large).

8. Encourage electric racing in the summer, have a class for it, and hype it near the end of the indoor season, and via other outlets.

and the last one - Hope gas prices go down. Because really that could easily be the reason this year we have had lower turnout than last.

Just some thoughts. But I think lack of marketing and no cheap(er) way to get into the sport being one of the biggest reasons for all this.

I've taken some business classes, I've taken some marketing classes, and I have run some niche based events. From that I know marketing them and getting people excited about what you are doing is KEY for anything that is going after a niche group.

shadow1208

Let me guess????? Your going drinking.. Save your liver and get your butt to the track.

Clegg

iTrader: (9)

No going to a shop to help a friend do an engine swap on a Subaru, then dyno it. He wanted to do it starting mid day but I had him push it back into the 5pm area because I was going to race nitro...

out_to_lunch

iTrader: (1)

Hmmm,

Two thoughts, as follows:

#1: I love reading Jonesie's posts. When I read them I can actually "hear" him saying them, with voice inflections and that rhaspy cough/laugh intertwined or following a usually humorous statement; such as the one Jonesie posted two above this post.

#2: Suggestion #3 in Clegg's post about growing the nitro class may have some merit, but I just bought another quarter scale to run next summer. I also despise touring cars whether they are nitro or electric.

On the bright side, carpet racing starts on the 17th (fingers crossed...), and there will be new paint to share and show off to Clegg and the rest of the admirers of technicolor.

Later,
JB

GordonFreeman

iTrader: (2)

Will there be any open practice (indoor carpet) for non-racers? How much?

Clegg

iTrader: (9)

kevin,

I posted in a kyosho thread about our season being cut short, and there were some interesting replies from people who had thier club have this issue. in both cases establishing a spec class with a clear set of rules meant to equalize the rich from the not so rich brought people back to the track.

I know you are not about more rules, and are about letting the people who come down to run what they want for Nitro, maybe next year more of a clear rule set and standards set before the season starts would really help spark interest.

GordonFreeman

iTrader: (2)

Attempting cost control in RC racing? Are you nuts? If you don't spend at least $2000/yr you can't be part of the crew. I mean if I spend a buttload of money to eek out .5 seconds, you should have to too, right? At least give it the ol' college try to keep up with the Jones.

Hmm..."equalize the rich from the not so rich". Maybe you're not so bad after all Clegg.

I'll get myself banned yet, you just watch me.

Clegg

iTrader: (9)

Actually I don't see the primary reason being cost control, its more of a by- product if anything.

All it does is lets people know what they need to buy to race. That doesn't exist currently for the Den nitro in the summer. Whether that means people spend less, thats debatable. I am just saying we need a spec class, not the ultra different John W. Spec class of misfits Where 20min mains, and wind up cars are the norm

When you don't know what to race, what the rules are, people are less likely to jump in. I just want a set of rules for next year (and saying "anything goes" like its been the 2 years I have raced there... doesn't really cut it.)

Although I am about limiting cost of engines in Nitro, because unlike electric where "some" people (ahhem...) seem to think 50$ motors, and 3$ brushes are too much. In nitro you can buy a solid ROAR legal 100$ nitro motor, or spend $450.00 for a hand tuned ROAR legal motor that has as much punch and power as some .21's. Thats the crap that kills nitro R/C, there is NO ceiling on cost, you can spend 2000$ on a car if you wanted to get the best of the best. In electric there is ceilings based on limitations in technology (and the fact most of the technology is relatively cheap in electric), and the improvements some of the technologies give are so minimal few could ever see benefit from it in the distance of a race. (such as those very expensive chargers, very high end batteries, etc...)

GordonFreeman

iTrader: (2)

"the ultra different John W. Spec class of misfits Where 20min mains, and wind up cars are the norm"

One can dream right? And if you can build a wind-up car that goes for 20 minutes at mod speeds, bring it and see if you can profit from the claim rule!

I'd almost be willing to put money down on this that this car is going to rock.

It's not the first $50 motor that bothers me, it's the second, third and fouth that bother me. It's not the first $3 brushes that bother me, it's the....you get it. And you got it on the support equipment too, way too much, overkill to the nth degree. Got a 3 year old brushless with countless abuse and miles on it(you know how much I practice when I'm at the track) that goes like new. Could probably sell it for $140 easy, let see 3 hours of use per week for say, 60 weeks. That's 2160 5 minute heats at a cost of $50. That's $.023 per heat, literally pennies.

Clegg

iTrader: (9)

yep, and in nitro those 450$ plants normally eat themselves by the end of the season. So you either drop another 200$ for piston, rod, crank,or buy a new plant.

And yeh I understand your point on the electric, I think everyone knows your issues with that. I was just saying the ceiling in Nitro is far more brutal it seems for stuff that you would NEED to compete with people who had $450.00 plants.

GordonFreeman

iTrader: (2)

Now I remember why I don't do Nitro sedans.

By the way when are you going to bed so I can get the last word in?

shadow1208

Clegg...no offense buddy but thats crap. Nitro is way cheaper than electric hands down. Makes no difference if you have a $450 engine or not its still cheaper. You don't have a bunch of battery packs, a bunch of motors, good chargers, power supply, good iron, lathe, dischargers, and all of the motor tuning stuff.

The reason nitro is not as popular as electric is the fact you have to keep a nitro engine in tune or it won't stay running..where with electric its just go go go.

If Kevin puts in all of ROAR's rules it just makes it harder for someone to get into it because they have to buy just what the rules say. The way he has it now, anybody can run the car they find on ebay for $150 with a 5 port or a rtr with a .15. Do you really think that limiting what people can use in a hobby that has too few numbers already is a good idea???


P.S. Your still a girl...

Clegg

iTrader: (9)

People choose to make electric as expensive as it is. You think a handful of GFX's make you that much better? You think having 20 1.9v packs are essential?, or create that massive of an advantage?

I am sorry but 1/12th is way cheaper as far as I am concerned than Nitro Touring. In Nitro a set of tires last maybe one or two weekends? Fuel is 25$ a gallon and you can go through 2 of those in a season. Bearings get eaten alive in nitro, parts you break in nitro are more expensive and more frequent, wear on parts in nitro are higher, etc... Oh and the cost of the cars is 2x - 4x that of electrics.

In Electric the expensive stuff many times has a small, very small impact on performance. Meaning in many cases you don’t need to have 1.9v cells, and 2000$ in chargers, to race and keep up, it just makes it easier. Unlike in Nitro where when you buy a 450$ plant, it gives you a BIG kick in the ass on the track with power levels almost 40% above a 100$ engine. So when someone goes to that level, you almost have to follow, just to compete.

The only place Electric is more expensive than Nitro is in Support hardware, but the way I see it, Support hardware always holds some value in this sport so you can easily most of the time resell what you have, and recoup some of the cost. Same cant be said in nitro since the costs are almost all running costs with little support hardware.

Also saying going to ROAR rules would make it harder for people is PURE BULL SHIT. What it would do is give people an idea of what the hell to buy. And I am not saying it needs to be ROAR, just some spec racing. Maybe say it’s a RTR class, where you need to buy Kit X with the stock engine to race in that class. My whole thing is making it easier for NEW people to get into the sport, since its obvious that there isn’t much of a standing group of nitro racers in the area. And in a way that would keep Gordon Freeman happy, making it a cost limited class would be nice also, restricting the plants used, keeping kits stock, etc… Getting the rules out early enough and informing the racing populous what they are early enough gives people time to buy what they need and get ready for the start of the season.

I am full of ideas (and bullshit some would say), but working out a deal for next summer through RCP or KT Hobbies or something where you can get a full package to race nitro at the Den would make life very simple. As I see it marketing the track, and attracting new racers into the hobby to race in a more organized class structure is one of the big downfalls of nitro touring in Wisconsin.

For 2 years I marketed LAN gaming events to geeks, and geeks alike. A very niche thing that in many ways mirrors the RC scene. Making your event more accessible, and easier to understand is always the first step in getting more interest.

Something is broken in the world of Nitro Touring not only at the Den but in general, and maybe trying stuff to fix it would help Vs just seeing if it fixes itself or blaming the racers. Nothing I am saying here is a bash against the Den at all. I am just trying to voice some ideas and thoughts I have on how to fix the nitro scene next year, because by all measures this year was weak on attendance. (I was no help in that, but it was a busy summer!) I just want to help the scene at this point.

Heck some of this could be looked at to boost electric turnout too.