biz77

iTrader: (47)

To answer your first question... They can't be any more clear. After the D3.5 debacle ROAR rewrote the wire rules to have a very strict maximum wire thickness stated in mm. Before that change the maximum thickness was also stated in AWG, which Trinity used to protest the ruling on their D3.5 product because "there is some amount of variance when manufacturing wire to a specific AWG."

Old rule:
ROAR Stock Motor: Only three slot “Y” wound stators are permitted. No delta wound
or slot less stators are allowed. Only circular (round) pure copper magnet wire
permitted. The three slotted stator must be wound with 17.5 turns of 2 strands of a
maximum diameter of 20AWG or 0.813 mm per slot. The resistance for each slot of
the stator shall be tested and a minimum resistance figure will be determined upon
submittal.
8.8.2.3.2 ROAR Sup...


New Rule:
8.4.7.2.7 ROAR Spec 17.5 motor: The three slotted stator must be wound with 17.5 turns of 2 strands
of a maximum diameter of .813 mm per slot. No motor will be approved with resistance less than 35.4
milliohms* between any 2 phases of the motor (AB, AC, BC), when measured at 25C with an Instek GOM
802 milliohm meter.


Is this seriously happening again???

Antimullet

iTrader: (65)

And again you are not providing evidence of some widespread conspiracy to cheat. Let’s start simple. Show me a screenshot of the supposed two manufactures with oversized wire and show it to me in more than one iteration each.

jlfx car audio

iTrader: (37)

Soon my dear , besides your not affiliated with trinity or R1 or Fantom or TSR cause if you was you would already know I'm speaking the truth . but here real soon it will be put infront of everyone to see. My original question. Was more about how would this issue be handled by the company when they are officially exposed . ...which I have yet to hear from any one but TSR. ... I know exactly how the racers will handle it ... #spechandout #antitrinity j/s
Just got a shipment of motors in today actually that would ALL fail tech at any large race this yr.... And they are standard off the shelf max motors ...

EAMotorsports

iTrader: (79)

No there were two reedy motors that failed ROAR tech too at the Nats.

EA

Antimullet

iTrader: (65)

I tremble at the thought dearest...

Seriously I have no issues with a canned spec motor at a track and everyone runs them. It’s actually pretty darn competitive. We do it at our track.
I just want to see the actual meat of the issue concerning these alleged illegal winds to include all the manufacturers with found illegal motors.

And this crap your starting again with trinity, I honestly don’t think there is any intent with Trinity, R1, or Reedy if any of them were found to be illegal.

I think it’s a quality control issue and a result of outsourced manufacturing.

I’d like to see some things like spec motors controlled a bit better in that regard.

I’d prefer a sealed spec motor like some tracks do and be done with the drama.

These 13.5, 17.5 class and 21.5 classes are pretty ridiculous when it comes to everyone trying to gain an advantage in the motor. Takes the fun out of racing when supposedly spec racing costs more than mod. True spec should be sealed and controlled by the race director and each race should have a raffle for the motors, to be returned immediately after the race. Everything else leaves room for fiddling.

jlfx car audio

iTrader: (37)

#1 I cant take credit for starting this issue , if the manufacturers would had not tried to get this stuff into racers hands all would be just fine.
#2 as for quality control.... i know of one situation this is intentional cause a call was made from build house to a person that has motors built at same place asking if they would like to use larger wire as the other company REQUESTED....
It will all come out ,soon im hearing ,but there are some loose ends and hurdles to jump before hand im sure....

Antimullet

iTrader: (65)

If #2 holds true then yea, no need for that, and time for ROAR and all the top manufacturers to come up with a mutually agreeable solution.

Chaz955i

iTrader: (5)

Well, if past history is any guide the solution will involve making up some ridiculous story about the item in question being taken off the list due to "faulty brakes" and then having said company's suck-ups go on the threads to tell anyone who questions the item's legality they are "haters".

30Tooth

iTrader: (1)

On a serious note, if a 17.5T D3.5 falls above 35.4ohm does that mean I can race one?

biz77

iTrader: (47)

Not if it's an event or track that follows ROAR motor rules.

30Tooth

iTrader: (1)

I would love to compare it to the new gen motors

biz77

iTrader: (47)

Reach out to Scirocco on here. We have some D3.5 17.5 and 13.5's. He's had them on the dyno. They are still pretty good by today's standards, but they aren't going to be competitive against the newest cream of the crop.

jlfx car audio

iTrader: (37)

correct the old big wire D3.5 was using big wire on a traditional stator design with a wide web and used about 46" of wire per coil and lowest IR I saw was like 19.0 I think
the new crop is using like 40" of wire per coil with a IR or 17.80 and now that big wire is being used again its setting the bar even higher using about 41" of wire and IR most recently are 16.9!!!

30Tooth

iTrader: (1)

Thanks both!

@jlfx, that's more what I wanted, very thorough answer.

iTz Nicholas72

iTrader: (19)