20LikesTeam Associated TC6 Thread
05-07-2012, 10:26 AM
#6706
05-07-2012, 11:49 AM
#6707
Newbie Questions
I am new to the TC6 and paved on road asphalt racing (So far, I have only driven the car at 1 race and 2 practice sessions). The track is 225x125 smooth asphalt. I am running 17.5 blinky on Solaris spec tires exactly following Jeff Cuff's set-up sheet. Right now the car's back end is loose. I am going to start experimenting with different anti roll bars, roll centers, ant-squat, toe, camber, etc to see if I can remedy the problem. I have 3 questions. I was thinking of switching from the rear ball diff to a gear diff. What weight oil do you all recommend? I also noticed that at either left or right steering end point under power, the front wheels/drive train start to shake. Is that normal? I have to reduce EPA to 85% for it to stop. Lastly, I am using a brand new Express Motorsports (Revtech) 17.5. FDR is 3.4, temps in the high 120's (ambient air 75), twin motor fans, but on the main staright (225') EVERYONE passes me. Nothing seems to be binding in the drivetrain, and I have replaced all of the ball bearings with Avids. Any suggestions?
05-07-2012, 02:50 PM
#6708
I am new to the TC6 and paved on road asphalt racing (So far, I have only driven the car at 1 race and 2 practice sessions). The track is 225x125 smooth asphalt. I am running 17.5 blinky on Solaris spec tires exactly following Jeff Cuff's set-up sheet. Right now the car's back end is loose. I am going to start experimenting with different anti roll bars, roll centers, ant-squat, toe, camber, etc to see if I can remedy the problem. I have 3 questions. I was thinking of switching from the rear ball diff to a gear diff. What weight oil do you all recommend? I also noticed that at either left or right steering end point under power, the front wheels/drive train start to shake. Is that normal? I have to reduce EPA to 85% for it to stop. Lastly, I am using a brand new Express Motorsports (Revtech) 17.5. FDR is 3.4, temps in the high 120's (ambient air 75), twin motor fans, but on the main staright (225') EVERYONE passes me. Nothing seems to be binding in the drivetrain, and I have replaced all of the ball bearings with Avids. Any suggestions?
The left and right shaking is normal and has to do with the cvds, if you want to get rid of it you can do as you did and reduce the steering epa/dual rate or invest in some ECSs or DCJs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7S95NcOxug
http://www.reflexracing.net/RSD-AE-T...r-_p_1120.html
Are you running any physical timing on your RevTech motor at all?
As for the back being loose, short answer I'd probably go back to the stock setup from the TC6 manual and adjust from there...a general rule of thumb is to transfer more weight to the rear with lighter rear shock springs, move your shocks a hole or two in, more front droop...some of the things I can think of off the top of my head...
05-07-2012, 04:35 PM
#6709
Got a chance to take the car out for the first time over the weekend. I run modified at NorCal Hobbies, and unfortunately have to race against local drivers who are really fast... Tyler Vik, EJ Evans, Eric Albano, Kevin Jelich, Jesse Stark, Ethan Erchinger, Jeff Hastings, Leo Zhao; all sponsored drivers that I have to contend with on the regular. Needless to say, a regular club race can be very competitive and sometimes just one bobble or blown line can sometimes be the difference between qualifying in the top 5 or not even making the A-main at all. Mod TC is alive and kicking here in NorCal, and I'm sure that being the host of the Reedy every year has something to do with it.
Having said that, I wasn't expecting too much from our first outing, I still had to shake down the car during morning practice. I ran the original TC6 all last outdoor season, so i was familiar with the car somewhat, but anxious to see how the new changes affected the handling. I threw Rick Howhart's set-up on the car from the last Reedy Race, hoping it would work well right off the bat. It did. The car felt very stable, and easy to drive... was able to comfortably qualify into the main, and then even finished 4th after taking advantage or a couple of the front runners' misfortune. I was still about 1/2 a second off of the winner's fast lap time (Tyler Vik... HotBodies), so I know there is time to be found somewhere.
The car did feel like it could use more steering...particularly during the first half of the corner (entry to mid).
After the mains I made a couple changes during practice, such as taking off the front sway bar and lowering the overall droop values both front and rear... but honestly I couldn't feel anything. Still felt kinda dumpy on entry to apex, particularly on the sharper radius corners, so I reverted back to the standard Howhart setup since I felt the changes didn't merit any improvement.
Open to suggestions on what to try next... tired of always just missing the A-main every year at the Reedy, so I'm getting a jump start on my car setup for once. This year will hopefully be different!
Looking forward to hearing everyone's suggestions!
P.S. WHERE THE HELL IS EVERYONE MEASURING THE FRONT DROOP MEASUREMENT FROM?!?!? The angles on the arm are RIDICULOUS. Not a fan.
Having said that, I wasn't expecting too much from our first outing, I still had to shake down the car during morning practice. I ran the original TC6 all last outdoor season, so i was familiar with the car somewhat, but anxious to see how the new changes affected the handling. I threw Rick Howhart's set-up on the car from the last Reedy Race, hoping it would work well right off the bat. It did. The car felt very stable, and easy to drive... was able to comfortably qualify into the main, and then even finished 4th after taking advantage or a couple of the front runners' misfortune. I was still about 1/2 a second off of the winner's fast lap time (Tyler Vik... HotBodies), so I know there is time to be found somewhere.
The car did feel like it could use more steering...particularly during the first half of the corner (entry to mid).
After the mains I made a couple changes during practice, such as taking off the front sway bar and lowering the overall droop values both front and rear... but honestly I couldn't feel anything. Still felt kinda dumpy on entry to apex, particularly on the sharper radius corners, so I reverted back to the standard Howhart setup since I felt the changes didn't merit any improvement.
Open to suggestions on what to try next... tired of always just missing the A-main every year at the Reedy, so I'm getting a jump start on my car setup for once. This year will hopefully be different!
Looking forward to hearing everyone's suggestions!
P.S. WHERE THE HELL IS EVERYONE MEASURING THE FRONT DROOP MEASUREMENT FROM?!?!? The angles on the arm are RIDICULOUS. Not a fan.
After round one, car felt pretty solid, but still looking for more initial steering to get through those tighter turns faster. For round two I decided to switched over to the slightly harder RSD blue springs in front, instead of running AE silver.
Round two... what a difference! The car felt more responsive, and just rotated so much better through the entire corner. Felt like the corner speed increased too... Still a little off-pace compared to all the guns at my track (less than last race though..3 tenths or so), but finished 3rd and really feel like I made some progress! Part of it, I'm hoping, is the fact that I ran tires that I ran the week before. But having said that we are definitely getting closer and closer!
Last edited by StickyFingaz; 05-07-2012 at 06:35 PM.
05-07-2012, 07:46 PM
#6711
Tech Adept
iTrader: (2)
Hi Mike,
I was looking over ur car while u were out marshaling after your last run. I have a handful of suggestions for you. The first thing I would like you to do is try a set of my tires that I KNOW work on my car. I think tires are your major issue. I swtched from the gear diff with 30 to the ball diff and noticed no difference. So I'd just throw the gear diff in and be done. There are some other things I learned on my car that cld be applied to urs. I can help you try some stuff at the track but the first thing I'd do is try my tires and put the car back to the stock setup and go from there. I am new to this also but I am thinking that you aren't carrying enough speed to keep the proper amount of heat in the tires you have.
Ken
I was looking over ur car while u were out marshaling after your last run. I have a handful of suggestions for you. The first thing I would like you to do is try a set of my tires that I KNOW work on my car. I think tires are your major issue. I swtched from the gear diff with 30 to the ball diff and noticed no difference. So I'd just throw the gear diff in and be done. There are some other things I learned on my car that cld be applied to urs. I can help you try some stuff at the track but the first thing I'd do is try my tires and put the car back to the stock setup and go from there. I am new to this also but I am thinking that you aren't carrying enough speed to keep the proper amount of heat in the tires you have.
Ken
05-08-2012, 12:53 AM
#6712
Tech Regular
iTrader: (3)
Lastly, I am using a brand new Express Motorsports (Revtech) 17.5. FDR is 3.4, temps in the high 120's (ambient air 75), twin motor fans, but on the main staright (225') EVERYONE passes me. Nothing seems to be binding in the drivetrain, and I have replaced all of the ball bearings with Avids. Any suggestions?
05-08-2012, 09:45 AM
#6713
wheel chatter
Would having a gear diff in front with oil eliminate the chatter on the front wheels at full lock?
The left and right shaking is normal and has to do with the cvds, if you want to get rid of it you can do as you did and reduce the steering epa/dual rate or invest in some ECSs or DCJs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7S95NcOxug
http://www.reflexracing.net/RSD-AE-T...r-_p_1120.html
The left and right shaking is normal and has to do with the cvds, if you want to get rid of it you can do as you did and reduce the steering epa/dual rate or invest in some ECSs or DCJs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7S95NcOxug
http://www.reflexracing.net/RSD-AE-T...r-_p_1120.html
05-08-2012, 10:17 AM
#6714
Well, ran my car again at NorCal's most recent club race. Track was much hotter than we're used to... Mod motor temps commonly coming off @ 200deg even with fans. Started the the day with the RROC Howhart setup, but without the front roll bar and 45 weight oil up front instead of the 35 the setup calls for, and running 6/5 droop instead of 7/6 (trying to find some initial steering.)
After round one, car felt pretty solid, but still looking for more initial steering to get through those tighter turns faster. For round two I decided to switched over to the slightly harder RSD blue springs in front, instead of running AE silver.
Round two... what a difference! The car felt more responsive, and just rotated so much better through the entire corner. Felt like the corner speed increased too... Still a little off-pace compared to all the guns at my track (less than last race though..3 tenths or so), but finished 3rd and really feel like I made some progress! Part of it, I'm hoping, is the fact that I ran tires that I ran the week before. But having said that we are definitely getting closer and closer!
After round one, car felt pretty solid, but still looking for more initial steering to get through those tighter turns faster. For round two I decided to switched over to the slightly harder RSD blue springs in front, instead of running AE silver.
Round two... what a difference! The car felt more responsive, and just rotated so much better through the entire corner. Felt like the corner speed increased too... Still a little off-pace compared to all the guns at my track (less than last race though..3 tenths or so), but finished 3rd and really feel like I made some progress! Part of it, I'm hoping, is the fact that I ran tires that I ran the week before. But having said that we are definitely getting closer and closer!
05-08-2012, 12:29 PM
#6715
Wheel Chatter in turning
I was just reading the comments below about the front wheels chattering when turning. I was trying to figure out how to get rid of this just last night. I am putting together a new TC6 kit and as I was testing things I noticed that it had some really bad wheel chatter when the wheels were turned to full lock. I couldn't find anything wrong and assumed it was the CVDs causing it. But I also have a TC6.1 that I already had and that car does not have any wheel chatter at all. The front wheels stay perfectly smooth. Is there a difference in the CVDs from the TC6 to the TC6.1? I didn't think there was a difference, but I am pretty new to these cars and on road in general. I know I would freak out if one of my off road cars has that bad of a vibration when turning.
I'm trying to figure out why one of my cars has such severe chatter and the other has none at all. Something seems weird. I bought the TC6 kit from someone who had partially built it but never got around to finishing it so the CVD's were already assembled when I got it. I'm wondering if they did something wrong when they put them together since my other car is so smooth.
One thing I did different on the smooth TC6.1 was when I built the CVDs I left the set screw out of it since it had the snap ring to retain the pin and I put a piece of shrink tube over the snap ring as added security. This is something I did on my offroad cars to help reduce wear of the pin and joint in the CVD. Im wondering if removing the set screw and letting the pin move a little more free in the joint would help cut down the vibration. Anyone ever find a solution for this? Or maybe a way to make it less severe. I dont really want to spend a bunch of money on fancy aftermarket CVDs, Im just planning to use this for a VTA car. It just bugs me as it is.
I'm trying to figure out why one of my cars has such severe chatter and the other has none at all. Something seems weird. I bought the TC6 kit from someone who had partially built it but never got around to finishing it so the CVD's were already assembled when I got it. I'm wondering if they did something wrong when they put them together since my other car is so smooth.
One thing I did different on the smooth TC6.1 was when I built the CVDs I left the set screw out of it since it had the snap ring to retain the pin and I put a piece of shrink tube over the snap ring as added security. This is something I did on my offroad cars to help reduce wear of the pin and joint in the CVD. Im wondering if removing the set screw and letting the pin move a little more free in the joint would help cut down the vibration. Anyone ever find a solution for this? Or maybe a way to make it less severe. I dont really want to spend a bunch of money on fancy aftermarket CVDs, Im just planning to use this for a VTA car. It just bugs me as it is.
05-08-2012, 12:56 PM
#6717
I don't understand why associate it doesn't come out with their own DCJs version
05-08-2012, 01:02 PM
#6718
05-08-2012, 03:57 PM
#6719
How much time is spent at full left/right anyway? A good entry line will eliminate a lot of that on a large flowing track. Full wheel lock is often after you've either not slowed down enough and/or entered the corner wrong - the point of no return.
05-08-2012, 04:53 PM
#6720
I have 2 tc6.1's and on the first one never had an issue with the chattering at all. After building the second one i noticed right away i stripped the whole front end back down thinking i had built something wrong and noticed everything was perfect. After several hours of tinkering i got the vibrations to a minimum but still not completely gone. The only way i got it to go away completely was to reduce my expo and the travel . I know this doesnt fix the problem but is a temporary cure until i can do some more research.