LiL_JaSoN

iTrader: (6)

looks messy. wouldnt want to break anything durring a race, unless u made a few spares.

the rear looks a rip off from roelof.

nitrodude

iTrader: (8)

Looks like a Motonica, with Serpent knuckles, Kyosho bumper, did I miss anything ?

LiL_JaSoN

iTrader: (6)

tried looking into that website but u have to pay :|

Roelof

I bet it is on the free conferences, I will try to take a peek from my work (have to go now).

Looks very nice but there is one problem on the front and that is bumpsteer. Changing the length of the upper wishbone what DAX actually does) has influence on the toe-out. In bumpy corners you can have a tricky steering car. To get rid of it you have to lower the ball link to the same height as the lower pivot ball.

I wonder if it does create more grip. Let us know more!

Roelof

Yep:
http://www.sgrid.com/cgi-bin/backtal...howforgotten=2

LiL_JaSoN

iTrader: (6)

dont see the point of having it in the front.. the change in the front is hardly noticable in my car.

isent that what caster is for?

wingracer

iTrader: (24)

Same here. Camber gain is desirable in the front. The only thing it hurts is braking which we don't need to worry about since we don't have front brakes.

PMSorber

By implementing it to the rear, you create massive rear tracktion. This result creates a massive change in your tracktion balance point between front and rear, e.g. loads of understeer. In order to cope with this you will do some radical changes to the front in order to generate enough tracktion to correct the tracktion balance point to its sweet-spot. If you have done so you will need to cope with higher tire wear and higher fuel consumption (result of high tracktion).
The more overall tracktion, the more difficult it is to have an easy car to drive, it can get very sencitive. How less easy a car is to drive, the worse the laptime-difference will be. And then you have to cope with bump....

Roelof

Lookting to 1/12 carpet racers there is also a huge amount of grip which for us dedicated 1/8 drivers is difficult because we are used that the car slides a bit so we do turn to soon or are unsure when to turn.
If you can deal with it I think it is no problem to drive an 1/8 car with a lot of grip.

wingracer

iTrader: (24)

I like grip. Give me more, more, more.

Of course, I also run 1/12th scale, haha

PMSorber

Yes, but dont forget, there is a trade off... More more more grip does not mean faster.

wingracer

iTrader: (24)

If you believe that, but 50 shore tires and an old, low slung body on the car and see how you do.

Taking grip away is easy, getting more when you need it is hard.

Roelof

All racecar engineers are clear about one thing, mechanical grip is more important than aerodynamic grip, that last one is huge with our type of bodies. I think going back to the F1 bodies and DTM/GTR cars that bit extra more grip would be wishfull.

Wingracer is right, if the mechanical grip can alow using 45 to 50 shore tires you can run a final without tire change. If that is possible you can take out the quickchange system and use a bolt to mount the tires giving an extra advantage

DS Motorsport

iTrader: (2)

I think you got it the wrong way around.
Aero is everything in modern, high end motorsport (F1, GT1, LM).
Without a proper aero package you are nowhere.
Mechanical grip is easy to create, there is a lot more knowledge which has been documented very well.
Aero is still partly an black art, just look at the recent blown diffusers in F1. A team like Mclaren had it completely wrong on their first outing with it and had to remove it.

You could double the amount of downforce on a 1/8 scale within no time, but because of the crude suspension (dampers) the car would be undrivable, it will upset the balance tremendously.

I think the same about the dax, it upsets the balance of the car. To get the balance back you will have to do crazy things (ultra hard springs, ARB) which takes away the grip you just added.
If you want to do it properly, and I believe it could actually be an advantage, you will need to redesign the entire suspension from the ground up. Especially the front suspension.

Roelof

Ofcourse is aerodynamics very important in lowering the air resistance but downforce is a compromise to get the right balance on low speed and high speed parts of the track. Low downforse will result in faster times high speed sections but slower times on low speed sections, mechanical grip will help to set faster times on the low speed sections and save some air resistance on the high speed sections.

Going down to our cars. they are the complete opposite of a good aerodynamic car......