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Old 03-14-2010, 11:45 AM   #1
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Default Dax suspension

Maybe unknown to the most of you but in real racing it is seen on several cars. You can read all about it: Kitcars: Dax Cars the kit car manufacture of component kitcars
For sure this story: The Camber Compensation and Anti-Roll Suspension System - Page 01

A friend did make it on his bigscale with succes. He could not find any grip on the rear and went to to much grip whiche made me decide to give it a try as well (that will be next week).

The modified suspension arms:


Is a direct fit on the standard mounts:


Compleetle assambled:


Not fully adjusted but the effect can be seen:
http://www.euronet.nl/users/tooms/ftp/dax.wmv

The results at my friend were more grip and less tirewear. Tires thrown away by others he still can use them for another full 30 minute final and more.

Just to see if it will work, ik so I need to think about fitting it in the front. And if not it is builded back in just 5 minutes.
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Old 03-14-2010, 02:49 PM   #2
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Pretty impressive Roelof !

Keep us posted about the track tests...
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Old 03-14-2010, 10:21 PM   #3
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Very cool project! I would wager a bet that this will work best when used on both the front and rear suspensions simultaneously.
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Old 03-15-2010, 06:22 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Sharpe View Post
Very cool project! I would wager a bet that this will work best when used on both the front and rear suspensions simultaneously.
Is already tried... did not work...
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Old 03-15-2010, 11:22 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMSorber View Post
Is already tried... did not work...
What did not work??? Using it simultaneously front and rear? Or using it in the rear?
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Old 03-15-2010, 03:19 PM   #6
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What did not work??? Using it simultaneously front and rear? Or using it in the rear?
There where several issues but the biggest was grip ballance between front and read. The car was getting very understeered. You can try to solve that with taking away rear grip but then you also take away the advantage of DAX.
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Old 03-15-2010, 03:45 PM   #7
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1. Is there any difference to a suspension system with 2 parallel wishbones in equal length (-> No camber change in bump/roll)

2. When cornering, the contact patch is not in the middle of the tire anymore. That's what camber is for, isn't it???
You can


Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 03-15-2010, 04:18 PM   #8
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2 parallel wishbones will only keep the wheels straight when the chassis changes height without changing its angle. When the chassis make a roll the wheel will roll with it..... DAX will prevent that.

I wonder where Sorber has it from. From real racingcars I can think of it but RC cars have many differences with real cars and so you will never know if you do not give it a try.
On another forum he mentioned to focus on the front, if I can create more mechanical grip at the rear I can take out some performing loosing elements like the absurd 3 degrees toe-in and the high spoiler. If I can get this right it will be an advantage in an overal faster car and have no issues with lower mounted bodies as the EFRA want to go back from 170mm to 160mm.

And yes, if it works there is no stopping me try to fix something to the front as well as my friend is busy creating his own 1/5 car with front and rear DAX.
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Old 03-16-2010, 12:57 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roelof View Post
If I can get this right it will be an advantage in an overal faster car and have no issues with lower mounted bodies as the EFRA want to go back from 170mm to 160mm.

And yes, if it works there is no stopping me try to fix something to the front as well as my friend is busy creating his own 1/5 car with front and rear DAX.
Hey, I did not say it would not work within new situations
With a lower (rear) and slightly different body (front) it could work.
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Old 03-16-2010, 01:33 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by PMSorber View Post
Hey, I did not say it would not work within new situations
With a lower (rear) and slightly different body (front) it could work.
OK, that sounds more friendly

But with your words I can think you were talking about an RC car ?
Who did try it ?

As for my friend he did go to to much grip but by setting a small cambersetting, less toe-in and mounting an anti rollbar he could make the grip just right.

The only thing I am afraid of is the tire wear. If that is minimized the front will wear faster and that will take the car out of front/rear balance.
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Old 03-21-2010, 02:05 PM   #11
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And it works !

When I mounted it with the anti rollbar it felt to stiff so I disconnected it also with in the back of my mind that this system will work as an anti rollbar as well.

In the wet this morning it was difficult to see if it works but I could feel my car was in balance so the DAX was not out of tweak. In the 3rd heat the track was almost dry an wow what a smooth rear end. Only with a hard brake I could let the rear end slide, just when going into a corner or comming out of the corner on full throttle there was nothing to see at the rear end. Normally when comming out of the corner on full throttle you can always see the rear end going a tiny bit sidewards, my car not!

Next week the 1st Dutch national on the same track, I will keep it on the car.

Some understeer was noticeable, for sure on full throttle but it was not anoying. I can change the front for more steer or maybe mount the 25t side pulley but with a bad clutch and not my fastest engine on a track where all the grip was flushed away my fastest lap was just .5 sec away from my personal laprecord, not that bad if you know I did not race anything in the last 5 months.
The clutch is important, also my friend with his 1/5 car mentioned the huge grip will wreck clutches and probebly my bad adjusted cluch (the sound of it) could be caused by the grip and fooled me.

For the race itself, not much contenders. I qualified 4th, in the final I did take 1st place due a mess with the start and after soe laps the fastest qualier came behind me and I let him through. at 20 minutes in the race I was still at the 2nd spot but made a mistake and my carburator popped out of the engine, it seemed to be unscrewed, that was end of the game....
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Old 03-22-2010, 01:18 AM   #12
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Forgot to mention the tire wear.....

Started with a set of 35 shore Twister on full size (78mm/71mm). After the 20 minutes it was just 74mm/66mm, there is a lower tire wear. Because I was still using the 2.5 degrees toe-in so I had a direct switch back if it did not work I think I can minimize the toe-in setting what will give an advantage in the tire wear, steer and speed. I was already running the body on a lower setting and do comply with the 2011 rules with 160mm height.

But running 32 shore GRP tires I know the rear wears faster in the old setup and is giving more steer. Next weekend I will have these tires and if I am right they will fit right on the spot with this setup.
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Old 04-19-2010, 11:50 AM   #13
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And a small movie. I wish I had a better camera....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_w5FCDKbHM

But you can see the car is stable and following nice curves through the corners.
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Old 07-27-2010, 02:32 PM   #14
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Maybe this will convince the naysayers.

http://events.redrc.net/wp-content/u...rpentDLS-3.jpg
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Old 07-27-2010, 08:08 PM   #15
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Roelof,

Will this system work in 1/8th scale considering they use a sold rear axle and not a diff?

Becasue just like a Go Kart, to make a 1/8th scale easier to turn in a corner, the inside rear wheel lifts up?
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