Team Magic G4
06-18-2007, 04:17 PM
#7202
Second car is good for testing and having a backup, but it's much more work and unless you got exactly the same gear in each - and move motors to do comparisons, it's really not the same.
If you're running a stock OS TZ, perhaps it's time to get something faster. TZ will only take you so far. What I found with my stock TZ and setup, is that if you lose a few positions, you really can't catch up, because it just doesn't have enough power. If you want to keep the TZ, a Murnan crank will give you much more bottom end if you're on a technical track.
For a lot more power all the way around, try the newest CRF with all the upgrades. That thing is very quick. Or maybe one of those IDMs.
What gearing are you running on the ED and have you tried different combos. Also, have you tried DAZ's clutch setup? It's in the KB.
If you're running a stock OS TZ, perhaps it's time to get something faster. TZ will only take you so far. What I found with my stock TZ and setup, is that if you lose a few positions, you really can't catch up, because it just doesn't have enough power. If you want to keep the TZ, a Murnan crank will give you much more bottom end if you're on a technical track.
For a lot more power all the way around, try the newest CRF with all the upgrades. That thing is very quick. Or maybe one of those IDMs.
What gearing are you running on the ED and have you tried different combos. Also, have you tried DAZ's clutch setup? It's in the KB.
06-18-2007, 04:23 PM
#7203
Also i think i need to do is these MODS ASAP:
A. shorten the front arms lower to gain smaller front width
B. Reduce wheel base in the rear by 3mm
C. Place back 10,000 rear diff oil as i think spool up front helps with front traction
D. NEW engine - one that is competitive
E. maybe new tire brand
F. FUN is always F LOL
G. require good setup for low grip & bumpy track
A. shorten the front arms lower to gain smaller front width
B. Reduce wheel base in the rear by 3mm
C. Place back 10,000 rear diff oil as i think spool up front helps with front traction
D. NEW engine - one that is competitive
E. maybe new tire brand
F. FUN is always F LOL
G. require good setup for low grip & bumpy track
06-18-2007, 06:46 PM
#7204
Also i think i need to do is these MODS ASAP:
A. shorten the front arms lower to gain smaller front width
B. Reduce wheel base in the rear by 3mm
C. Place back 10,000 rear diff oil as i think spool up front helps with front traction
D. NEW engine - one that is competitive
E. maybe new tire brand
F. FUN is always F LOL
G. require good setup for low grip & bumpy track
A. shorten the front arms lower to gain smaller front width
B. Reduce wheel base in the rear by 3mm
C. Place back 10,000 rear diff oil as i think spool up front helps with front traction
D. NEW engine - one that is competitive
E. maybe new tire brand
F. FUN is always F LOL
G. require good setup for low grip & bumpy track
Would be good to try these first before you bolt on any G4+ parts. 
For tires, you may want to try a set or two of Kawaharas, just to run a comparison. The fact that you were running 30K diff oil in the rear under low traction conditions, may not actually reflect the performance of the K Factory or Jaco tires, so you should try running them again with 10K in the rear.
06-18-2007, 07:37 PM
#7206
http://www.nitrokb.com/g4s/faqtips.html#setup3
06-18-2007, 07:55 PM
#7207
What are your thoughts on this? How does this compare to the stock setup?
http://www.nitrokb.com/g4s/faqtips.html#setup3
http://www.nitrokb.com/g4s/faqtips.html#setup3
More steering /rotation:
- Narrowing the front track, making the front only 196-7mm. You can take about 2mm off the off the end of the front wishbones to reduce the front track width without any problems (you may need to shorten the end of the pivot balls too, depends which ones you use), it just gives you the option of running a narrow front track width (down to about 195mm), even with 1mm you can notice a difference. Once you have cut the ends off the wishbones then just measure each hub, from a point on the chassis (to get the same width each side). Just reducing the front by 1mm is noticeable so try it before going the full hog as you may well end up with too much steering/rotation.
- Shortening the wheelbase of the car by taking material from the lower rear 밃?arms (wishbones) has a positive effect on improving the cars ability to 'rotate'. The rear lowers can be filed from the front by about 2.5mm, and a 2.5 mm spacer put behind the arm on the hinge, that뭩 how I have always run my car and it just makes the car rotate quicker.
- Using plenty of rear camber (3 to 4 degrees) and the use of overdrive also can improve rear traction.
06-18-2007, 08:30 PM
#7208
The split with the locked diff take more toll on the belts as the split becomes smaller and smaller. Essentially, the rear becomes smaller and smaller, and ends up scrubbing off speed. The belt is trying to turn the front pulley, but the smaller diameter rear wheels is dragging the side pulley, creating a lot of stress on the belts.
Hope that made sense.
06-18-2007, 08:30 PM
#7209
if you think of the characteristics on how a car behaves you can generally make adjustments to suit....!
this thread since i have had my rant, has become rather helpfull and i am sure my local g4S friends will take note!
ill give feed back in 3 weeks when i race again,
once again thanks guys!!!
06-18-2007, 11:03 PM
#7210
front solid
i will test front solid system from this week.
i remember front soild is slower than diff system in cornering.
But front diff system is slower in corner-out.
so i must find good more-steering/rotation setup in front solid system.
maybe.. it will not be easy.
if i get good setup.. i will use solid system mainly
i remember front soild is slower than diff system in cornering.
But front diff system is slower in corner-out.
so i must find good more-steering/rotation setup in front solid system.
maybe.. it will not be easy.
if i get good setup.. i will use solid system mainly
06-18-2007, 11:22 PM
#7211
Okay, let's review camber setup theory for rear tires. What is the purpose of adjusting the camber? To ensure maximize contact patch with the track during cornering. Maximum contact patch = most traction. Too small a camber angle (tires cone out) or too large a camber angle (tires cone in too much) means you do not have maximum contact patch, so you want only slight cone in. This type of camber adjustment is referred to as static camber.
When the car is turning, you have to worry about camber rise (aka camber intake). This is dynamic camber while cornering. You can adjust camber rise by changing the length of the camber link, which may also change the angle of the camber link - which will change the amount of static camber required, roll center and body roll. Does body roll affect steering and rotation?
So what does all of this mean? You want to change the length and angle of the camber link, while maintaining the maximum contact patch, to find the right amount of body roll, that will give you the best traction, steering and rotation given a track's layout and traction, knowing that these are not the only factors that affect steering and rotation.
Man, I sure hope I got this right. If not, someone please correct me!
06-18-2007, 11:56 PM
#7212
Hey! That is not what I wanted you to read.
Okay, let's review camber setup theory for rear tires. What is the purpose of adjusting the camber? To ensure maximize contact patch with the track during cornering. Maximum contact patch = most traction. Too small a camber angle (tires cone out) or too large a camber angle (tires cone in too much) means you do not have maximum contact patch, so you want only slight cone in. This type of camber adjustment is referred to as static camber.
When the car is turning, you have to worry about camber rise (aka camber intake). This is dynamic camber while cornering. You can adjust camber rise by changing the length of the camber link, which may also change the angle of the camber link - which will change the amount of static camber required, roll center and body roll. Does body roll affect steering and rotation?
So what does all of this mean? You want to change the length and angle of the camber link, while maintaining the maximum contact patch, to find the right amount of body roll, that will give you the best traction, steering and rotation given a track's layout and traction, knowing that these are not the only factors that affect steering and rotation.
Man, I sure hope I got this right. If not, someone please correct me!
Okay, let's review camber setup theory for rear tires. What is the purpose of adjusting the camber? To ensure maximize contact patch with the track during cornering. Maximum contact patch = most traction. Too small a camber angle (tires cone out) or too large a camber angle (tires cone in too much) means you do not have maximum contact patch, so you want only slight cone in. This type of camber adjustment is referred to as static camber.
When the car is turning, you have to worry about camber rise (aka camber intake). This is dynamic camber while cornering. You can adjust camber rise by changing the length of the camber link, which may also change the angle of the camber link - which will change the amount of static camber required, roll center and body roll. Does body roll affect steering and rotation?
So what does all of this mean? You want to change the length and angle of the camber link, while maintaining the maximum contact patch, to find the right amount of body roll, that will give you the best traction, steering and rotation given a track's layout and traction, knowing that these are not the only factors that affect steering and rotation.
Man, I sure hope I got this right. If not, someone please correct me!
06-19-2007, 12:30 AM
#7213
Thanks Slow. 
06-19-2007, 01:32 AM
#7214
i will test front solid system from this week.
i remember front soild is slower than diff system in cornering.
But front diff system is slower in corner-out.
so i must find good more-steering/rotation setup in front solid system.
maybe.. it will not be easy.
if i get good setup.. i will use solid system mainly
i remember front soild is slower than diff system in cornering.
But front diff system is slower in corner-out.
so i must find good more-steering/rotation setup in front solid system.
maybe.. it will not be easy.
if i get good setup.. i will use solid system mainly
i know its a stupid question, thou do you have max steering on RADIO? i once found that i had 60% on radio then added 95% and boo ya i got lots of steering!
I feel my front is fine on a low grip into corners as spoke before its more rear traction issues for me!!!
question do you race on a preped track surface, or does your grip rise as you race on the day, plus is the track flat? or off camber or even yet like ours on a slant slop due to having track on a hill!!!
06-19-2007, 05:07 AM
#7215
with the mods that you have done to the front of your car with much much reduced wheel track, find it interesting you need more steering on the front, does it push wide like under steer?
i know its a stupid question, thou do you have max steering on RADIO? i once found that i had 60% on radio then added 95% and boo ya i got lots of steering!
I feel my front is fine on a low grip into corners as spoke before its more rear traction issues for me!!!
question do you race on a preped track surface, or does your grip rise as you race on the day, plus is the track flat? or off camber or even yet like ours on a slant slop due to having track on a hill!!!
i know its a stupid question, thou do you have max steering on RADIO? i once found that i had 60% on radio then added 95% and boo ya i got lots of steering!
I feel my front is fine on a low grip into corners as spoke before its more rear traction issues for me!!!
question do you race on a preped track surface, or does your grip rise as you race on the day, plus is the track flat? or off camber or even yet like ours on a slant slop due to having track on a hill!!!
(if rear grip is unstable, then reduce dualrate)
2. i feel push under steer in corner-out.
But it can be fixed by front droop setup (reduce front downstop)
3. i did off camber in over traction