120LikesTAMIYA M-06 Thread
09-14-2016, 08:33 AM
#1847
Tech Fanatic
Short Chassis- 210mm Wheelbase
I run the short chassis. A bit better steering with slick tires then the long chassis. I get very little oversteer and understeer.
11-14-2016, 12:09 PM
#1848
setup help
I have a used mini and know nothing about tuning the M-06. I'm racing on med grip carpet and am restricted to M-grip and S-grip tires. I have adjustable rear shock positions, ball diff in the rear, fluid shock, 2 degree rear blocks. shocks in the front have 3 hole pistons, 1 hole rear and harder springs in the rear than the front. It also had a bunch of shims in a bunch of places. I want to make it right and to be able to compete with the M-05 chassis.
I'm looking for the whole setup, shocks, shims, camber, the works.
any help would be great, thanks
I'm looking for the whole setup, shocks, shims, camber, the works.
any help would be great, thanks
11-14-2016, 12:36 PM
#1849
I have a used mini and know nothing about tuning the M-06. I'm racing on med grip carpet and am restricted to M-grip and S-grip tires. I have adjustable rear shock positions, ball diff in the rear, fluid shock, 2 degree rear blocks. shocks in the front have 3 hole pistons, 1 hole rear and harder springs in the rear than the front. It also had a bunch of shims in a bunch of places. I want to make it right and to be able to compete with the M-05 chassis.
I'm looking for the whole setup, shocks, shims, camber, the works.
any help would be great, thanks
I'm looking for the whole setup, shocks, shims, camber, the works.
any help would be great, thanks
Are you aloud to build your m chassis tyres? If so, make sure you use the 54590 hard inner sponge.
If you are running LiPo, use a shorty pack so you have the ability to move it forward and back to add grip.
11-14-2016, 12:40 PM
#1850
I would use 3 hole piston in the rear as well. I built my front shock with zero droop, rear with about 1mm
Are you aloud to build your m chassis tyres? If so, make sure you use the 54590 hard inner sponge.
If you are running LiPo, use a shorty pack so you have the ability to move it forward and back to add grip.
Are you aloud to build your m chassis tyres? If so, make sure you use the 54590 hard inner sponge.
If you are running LiPo, use a shorty pack so you have the ability to move it forward and back to add grip.
what about camber and toe in front and rear??
I will be running a shorty
11-14-2016, 12:55 PM
#1851
My set up is very stiff and works for me.. so you may want to build up to it with softer shock oil first
Front 60 wt with yellow (medium) springs
Rear 60 wt with Blue (firm) springs
Camber front 0º
Rear 1º
Toe 0º
Ride height is about 4,5 mm all around..
Key with this car is to minimize weight transfer to rear. It likes to be driven with on throttle.. prior to entry I let off the throttle and get right back on it.
You can't use brake and usually there is no need for it.. but if you feel you need it, use drag brake setting in ESC.
Front 60 wt with yellow (medium) springs
Rear 60 wt with Blue (firm) springs
Camber front 0º
Rear 1º
Toe 0º
Ride height is about 4,5 mm all around..
Key with this car is to minimize weight transfer to rear. It likes to be driven with on throttle.. prior to entry I let off the throttle and get right back on it.
You can't use brake and usually there is no need for it.. but if you feel you need it, use drag brake setting in ESC.
11-14-2016, 08:25 PM
#1852
Here is a post I made in the Tamiya Mini Cooper thread many moons ago (back when I was running the M06 in the Canadian WCICS series):
First off, I would like to say that I love RWD cars.
That being said, I abandoned the M06 because it was too hard for me to drive consistently over the weekend at WCICS events. Here's my thoughts:
The M06 can be set up to be smooth and easy to drive, but that is not always the fastest way around the track. In order to make the M06 fast, you need lots of front grip, which makes the car extremely twichy on corner entry, which then transitions to understeer on corner exit. For drivers with less than smooth throttle control, a setup like this is also prone to oversteer. As the traction comes up over a race weekend, the problem gets worse, and the car gets even harder to drive smoothly, which leads to more clipped apexes when driving the tight lines required in mini. Compared to the RWD, the FWD cars maintain the same driving feel but simply get faster as the grip comes up, so they are as easy to drive in Friday night practice as they are in the Sunday mains.
Now that I have explained why I no longer run the M06, here are my tips for making it fast. You can worry about the consistency issue yourself.
The key to RWD is to get as much rear grip as you can, then slowly work towards increasing front grip to get a balance you can drive consistently. For me, on a low grip track, like club races, start with new S-grips on the rear, and type A slicks on the front. No need to glue the sidewalls at first. Yellow rear springs, red front. no swaybars. 30 wt oil front and rear. This is a soft setup that works at both of our local tracks (KARZ and Carcar). If you are looking for more front grip, you can go to S-grips on the front, but I like to stiffen up the front end with blue springs at the same time to try to take away some of the weight transfer and the off-throttle steering the S-grips bring.
Once you get to be a master at driving around the twitchy steering, you will find that you actually need more rotation mid corner in order to keep the corner speeds up and to reduce the mid-corner understeer. This will drive you to adding rear sway bars or going to blue rear springs.
For really high-grip (as high as we get around there) I have used tamiya type-B slicks on the front with full sauce and no glue on the sidewalls. At a WCICS event, this sacrifices some of the ultimate corner speed, but results in a car that is drive-able on Saturday night qualifiers and Sunday mains.
Some people will tell you that if you glue the outer rib of tread using S-grips the car is fine- this is the same as using less grippy tires, as you are effectively making the tire narrower by adding CA glue to the tread. The problem I have with that is the glue wears off, and every time you re-apply the handling changes slightly. using glue also requires you to clean off the glue area before each race to ensure the same traction and driving feel.
as for the car itself, always run a fully open diff on RWD - otherwise you will be doing donuts.
The M06 shock lengths are different front to rear, use the OEM setup lengths - the extra rear droop helps with weight transfer off-throttle on corner entry when using the harder slick tires on the front.
front toe setting for me is typically 1° out, linkage setup to minimize bump steer
I run the pro kits, so the rear hubs are the 1.5° toe in each side, lower pivot hole
we have no min ride height requirement in mini at the WCICS - I run about 3.5mm, and use adjustable top links to compensate for camber gain with reduced ride height. Camber is set to about 2° front and rear
You can play with battery location to adjust weight distribution - I run with it forward.
I use full size square packs in the M06 - seems to work better for me with the 225 mm WB
after re-reading your post, I see you are limited to M and S grip tires. Use the M grips with the extra hard inserts on the front and glue the sidewall/tread edge. Use the S-grips on the rear with hard inserts.
First off, I would like to say that I love RWD cars.
That being said, I abandoned the M06 because it was too hard for me to drive consistently over the weekend at WCICS events. Here's my thoughts:
The M06 can be set up to be smooth and easy to drive, but that is not always the fastest way around the track. In order to make the M06 fast, you need lots of front grip, which makes the car extremely twichy on corner entry, which then transitions to understeer on corner exit. For drivers with less than smooth throttle control, a setup like this is also prone to oversteer. As the traction comes up over a race weekend, the problem gets worse, and the car gets even harder to drive smoothly, which leads to more clipped apexes when driving the tight lines required in mini. Compared to the RWD, the FWD cars maintain the same driving feel but simply get faster as the grip comes up, so they are as easy to drive in Friday night practice as they are in the Sunday mains.
Now that I have explained why I no longer run the M06, here are my tips for making it fast. You can worry about the consistency issue yourself.
The key to RWD is to get as much rear grip as you can, then slowly work towards increasing front grip to get a balance you can drive consistently. For me, on a low grip track, like club races, start with new S-grips on the rear, and type A slicks on the front. No need to glue the sidewalls at first. Yellow rear springs, red front. no swaybars. 30 wt oil front and rear. This is a soft setup that works at both of our local tracks (KARZ and Carcar). If you are looking for more front grip, you can go to S-grips on the front, but I like to stiffen up the front end with blue springs at the same time to try to take away some of the weight transfer and the off-throttle steering the S-grips bring.
Once you get to be a master at driving around the twitchy steering, you will find that you actually need more rotation mid corner in order to keep the corner speeds up and to reduce the mid-corner understeer. This will drive you to adding rear sway bars or going to blue rear springs.
For really high-grip (as high as we get around there) I have used tamiya type-B slicks on the front with full sauce and no glue on the sidewalls. At a WCICS event, this sacrifices some of the ultimate corner speed, but results in a car that is drive-able on Saturday night qualifiers and Sunday mains.
Some people will tell you that if you glue the outer rib of tread using S-grips the car is fine- this is the same as using less grippy tires, as you are effectively making the tire narrower by adding CA glue to the tread. The problem I have with that is the glue wears off, and every time you re-apply the handling changes slightly. using glue also requires you to clean off the glue area before each race to ensure the same traction and driving feel.
as for the car itself, always run a fully open diff on RWD - otherwise you will be doing donuts.
The M06 shock lengths are different front to rear, use the OEM setup lengths - the extra rear droop helps with weight transfer off-throttle on corner entry when using the harder slick tires on the front.
front toe setting for me is typically 1° out, linkage setup to minimize bump steer
I run the pro kits, so the rear hubs are the 1.5° toe in each side, lower pivot hole
we have no min ride height requirement in mini at the WCICS - I run about 3.5mm, and use adjustable top links to compensate for camber gain with reduced ride height. Camber is set to about 2° front and rear
You can play with battery location to adjust weight distribution - I run with it forward.
I use full size square packs in the M06 - seems to work better for me with the 225 mm WB
after re-reading your post, I see you are limited to M and S grip tires. Use the M grips with the extra hard inserts on the front and glue the sidewall/tread edge. Use the S-grips on the rear with hard inserts.
11-17-2016, 11:33 AM
#1853
Thanks to posts made by the butcher and hprt... I decided to dust off my M06 and take it with me yesterday to the track (indoor carpet) Unfortunately there was no race to for the class.
The last time I ran my car at the same track it was pretty dialed. Yesterday it was all under steer as hprt had posted. So I had to make lots of changes to get steering back.
First was the obvious tyres. I run Pit Shimizu racing inner mesh series, which range in shore from 24-40. The letter H is for sweep green hard insert and S is for sweep pink soft insert.
I started out with 30H in the rear and 40S in the front. Which was creating the under steer. So I switched to 36H and steering improved. I also had pair of 36S which I did not end up testing.. I also moved my shorty pack all the way forward.
I next switched springs in the front. Originally had the yellow m chassis springs (white with yellow marking) that comes with the optional dampers. These are actually shorter than the kit springs that come with the M06 Pro. So swapped them out for the red kit springs and steering improved. Next I increased front camber to -1° and once again steering improved.
The last change I made was the rear track width. I removed the 5mm hex and went to 4mm.
All of these changes resulted in drastically reducing under steer. I was now able to navigate the track with ease and be consistent.
I was also able to carry maximum speed from back straight into the sweeper. I did notice a little bit of underrated at the centre of the sweeper.
For next week, I plan on trying out 33 or even 30s in front for more steering. Hopefully I have those in my spares at home.
The one thing I have not experienced with the M06 is off throttle oversteer or corner entry or mid corner oversteer. So the stiff set up works really well for me.
The last time I ran my car at the same track it was pretty dialed. Yesterday it was all under steer as hprt had posted. So I had to make lots of changes to get steering back.
First was the obvious tyres. I run Pit Shimizu racing inner mesh series, which range in shore from 24-40. The letter H is for sweep green hard insert and S is for sweep pink soft insert.
I started out with 30H in the rear and 40S in the front. Which was creating the under steer. So I switched to 36H and steering improved. I also had pair of 36S which I did not end up testing.. I also moved my shorty pack all the way forward.
I next switched springs in the front. Originally had the yellow m chassis springs (white with yellow marking) that comes with the optional dampers. These are actually shorter than the kit springs that come with the M06 Pro. So swapped them out for the red kit springs and steering improved. Next I increased front camber to -1° and once again steering improved.
The last change I made was the rear track width. I removed the 5mm hex and went to 4mm.
All of these changes resulted in drastically reducing under steer. I was now able to navigate the track with ease and be consistent.
I was also able to carry maximum speed from back straight into the sweeper. I did notice a little bit of underrated at the centre of the sweeper.
For next week, I plan on trying out 33 or even 30s in front for more steering. Hopefully I have those in my spares at home.
The one thing I have not experienced with the M06 is off throttle oversteer or corner entry or mid corner oversteer. So the stiff set up works really well for me.
Last edited by Raman; 11-26-2016 at 07:09 PM.
11-17-2016, 12:55 PM
#1855
I used to have an m04 and that to me was an aweful car. The M06
is leaps and bounds a better car and I got to be honest, from day one, I never found it hard to drive, nor did it frustrate me to give up on it. Back in day one, I really stank as a driver too. Now I stink somewhat lol.
I've had mine now for 6 years and as my skills for setting up and driving the car have improved, so has the M06 abilities.
I used to race it on asphalt / parking lots, hence the reason for having tyres with the soft inserts. There I found slicks were troublesome due to dust blowing on the tracks. So I used the m chassis tyres threaded tyres and was always competitive with drivers of the same skill level in am M05.
The only time the car was a beast to drive was when I could venture outside of the lines and rear tyres would get dirty. That I attribute to me and my focus not the chassis.
I still think this car / chassis / format has enormous potential and am hopefull for a Ver 2 or a new improved iteration.
I think the M05 is actually what holds this car back. The ABC Hobby Goose was a superior RWD platform, with TC style suspension arms, front rear up rights, ability to adjust camber links just like a TC. Droop screws in the arms, and Lower suspension mount suspension blocks. Gear box was belt driven. If an M08 adopted this layout, it would jump leap and bounds in performance.
But then it would not share the same parts with M05. So is it still an M chassis?
Tamiya could change the M07 as well and depart from its current set up.. But then the M03/M05 fans would most certainly scream foul!!!
The other issue is, majority shy away from the M06 because the M05 is easier to drive. The majority just follow the herd and when you have over 1800 pages of info attributed to M03/M05 vs 124 for M06.. The top m chassis guys all run M05, so it's an easy choice.
is leaps and bounds a better car and I got to be honest, from day one, I never found it hard to drive, nor did it frustrate me to give up on it. Back in day one, I really stank as a driver too. Now I stink somewhat lol.
I've had mine now for 6 years and as my skills for setting up and driving the car have improved, so has the M06 abilities.
I used to race it on asphalt / parking lots, hence the reason for having tyres with the soft inserts. There I found slicks were troublesome due to dust blowing on the tracks. So I used the m chassis tyres threaded tyres and was always competitive with drivers of the same skill level in am M05.
The only time the car was a beast to drive was when I could venture outside of the lines and rear tyres would get dirty. That I attribute to me and my focus not the chassis.
I still think this car / chassis / format has enormous potential and am hopefull for a Ver 2 or a new improved iteration.
I think the M05 is actually what holds this car back. The ABC Hobby Goose was a superior RWD platform, with TC style suspension arms, front rear up rights, ability to adjust camber links just like a TC. Droop screws in the arms, and Lower suspension mount suspension blocks. Gear box was belt driven. If an M08 adopted this layout, it would jump leap and bounds in performance.
But then it would not share the same parts with M05. So is it still an M chassis?
Tamiya could change the M07 as well and depart from its current set up.. But then the M03/M05 fans would most certainly scream foul!!!
The other issue is, majority shy away from the M06 because the M05 is easier to drive. The majority just follow the herd and when you have over 1800 pages of info attributed to M03/M05 vs 124 for M06.. The top m chassis guys all run M05, so it's an easy choice.
Last edited by Raman; 11-26-2016 at 07:11 PM.
11-17-2016, 03:23 PM
#1856
Spent a lot of time with springs/shocks. Neon softs to the ultra hard purple. Lap times where practically the same. Tires and traction compound made the noticeable difference for me.
I love the M06. Problem is Tamiya Regional racing in Asia mandates M-Grip tires front/rear. Toink.
I love the M06. Problem is Tamiya Regional racing in Asia mandates M-Grip tires front/rear. Toink.
11-17-2016, 03:32 PM
#1857
Spent a lot of time with springs/shocks. Neon softs to the ultra hard purple. Lap times where practically the same. Tires and traction compound made the noticeable difference for me.
I love the M06. Problem is Tamiya Regional racing in Asia mandates M-Grip tires front/rear. Toink.
I love the M06. Problem is Tamiya Regional racing in Asia mandates M-Grip tires front/rear. Toink.
The M grip mandate is idiotic, they should make an exception for the M06 to be inclusive.
I recently heard that the Tamiya TCS rules in California do not allow the R spec axle weights! They did it so people didn't feel like they had to buy the kit to get the weights!
That's what I call backwards thinking. You're Tamiya USA, tell Tamiya Japan to make the part available as a tuning option.
11-26-2016, 10:56 AM
#1860
Here is a post I made in the Tamiya Mini Cooper thread many moons ago (back when I was running the M06 in the Canadian WCICS series):
First off, I would like to say that I love RWD cars.
That being said, I abandoned the M06 because it was too hard for me to drive consistently over the weekend at WCICS events. Here's my thoughts:
The M06 can be set up to be smooth and easy to drive, but that is not always the fastest way around the track. In order to make the M06 fast, you need lots of front grip, which makes the car extremely twichy on corner entry, which then transitions to understeer on corner exit. For drivers with less than smooth throttle control, a setup like this is also prone to oversteer. As the traction comes up over a race weekend, the problem gets worse, and the car gets even harder to drive smoothly, which leads to more clipped apexes when driving the tight lines required in mini. Compared to the RWD, the FWD cars maintain the same driving feel but simply get faster as the grip comes up, so they are as easy to drive in Friday night practice as they are in the Sunday mains.
Now that I have explained why I no longer run the M06, here are my tips for making it fast. You can worry about the consistency issue yourself.
The key to RWD is to get as much rear grip as you can, then slowly work towards increasing front grip to get a balance you can drive consistently. For me, on a low grip track, like club races, start with new S-grips on the rear, and type A slicks on the front. No need to glue the sidewalls at first. Yellow rear springs, red front. no swaybars. 30 wt oil front and rear. This is a soft setup that works at both of our local tracks (KARZ and Carcar). If you are looking for more front grip, you can go to S-grips on the front, but I like to stiffen up the front end with blue springs at the same time to try to take away some of the weight transfer and the off-throttle steering the S-grips bring.
Once you get to be a master at driving around the twitchy steering, you will find that you actually need more rotation mid corner in order to keep the corner speeds up and to reduce the mid-corner understeer. This will drive you to adding rear sway bars or going to blue rear springs.
For really high-grip (as high as we get around there) I have used tamiya type-B slicks on the front with full sauce and no glue on the sidewalls. At a WCICS event, this sacrifices some of the ultimate corner speed, but results in a car that is drive-able on Saturday night qualifiers and Sunday mains.
Some people will tell you that if you glue the outer rib of tread using S-grips the car is fine- this is the same as using less grippy tires, as you are effectively making the tire narrower by adding CA glue to the tread. The problem I have with that is the glue wears off, and every time you re-apply the handling changes slightly. using glue also requires you to clean off the glue area before each race to ensure the same traction and driving feel.
as for the car itself, always run a fully open diff on RWD - otherwise you will be doing donuts.
The M06 shock lengths are different front to rear, use the OEM setup lengths - the extra rear droop helps with weight transfer off-throttle on corner entry when using the harder slick tires on the front.
front toe setting for me is typically 1° out, linkage setup to minimize bump steer
I run the pro kits, so the rear hubs are the 1.5° toe in each side, lower pivot hole
we have no min ride height requirement in mini at the WCICS - I run about 3.5mm, and use adjustable top links to compensate for camber gain with reduced ride height. Camber is set to about 2° front and rear
You can play with battery location to adjust weight distribution - I run with it forward.
I use full size square packs in the M06 - seems to work better for me with the 225 mm WB
after re-reading your post, I see you are limited to M and S grip tires. Use the M grips with the extra hard inserts on the front and glue the sidewall/tread edge. Use the S-grips on the rear with hard inserts.
First off, I would like to say that I love RWD cars.
That being said, I abandoned the M06 because it was too hard for me to drive consistently over the weekend at WCICS events. Here's my thoughts:
The M06 can be set up to be smooth and easy to drive, but that is not always the fastest way around the track. In order to make the M06 fast, you need lots of front grip, which makes the car extremely twichy on corner entry, which then transitions to understeer on corner exit. For drivers with less than smooth throttle control, a setup like this is also prone to oversteer. As the traction comes up over a race weekend, the problem gets worse, and the car gets even harder to drive smoothly, which leads to more clipped apexes when driving the tight lines required in mini. Compared to the RWD, the FWD cars maintain the same driving feel but simply get faster as the grip comes up, so they are as easy to drive in Friday night practice as they are in the Sunday mains.
Now that I have explained why I no longer run the M06, here are my tips for making it fast. You can worry about the consistency issue yourself.
The key to RWD is to get as much rear grip as you can, then slowly work towards increasing front grip to get a balance you can drive consistently. For me, on a low grip track, like club races, start with new S-grips on the rear, and type A slicks on the front. No need to glue the sidewalls at first. Yellow rear springs, red front. no swaybars. 30 wt oil front and rear. This is a soft setup that works at both of our local tracks (KARZ and Carcar). If you are looking for more front grip, you can go to S-grips on the front, but I like to stiffen up the front end with blue springs at the same time to try to take away some of the weight transfer and the off-throttle steering the S-grips bring.
Once you get to be a master at driving around the twitchy steering, you will find that you actually need more rotation mid corner in order to keep the corner speeds up and to reduce the mid-corner understeer. This will drive you to adding rear sway bars or going to blue rear springs.
For really high-grip (as high as we get around there) I have used tamiya type-B slicks on the front with full sauce and no glue on the sidewalls. At a WCICS event, this sacrifices some of the ultimate corner speed, but results in a car that is drive-able on Saturday night qualifiers and Sunday mains.
Some people will tell you that if you glue the outer rib of tread using S-grips the car is fine- this is the same as using less grippy tires, as you are effectively making the tire narrower by adding CA glue to the tread. The problem I have with that is the glue wears off, and every time you re-apply the handling changes slightly. using glue also requires you to clean off the glue area before each race to ensure the same traction and driving feel.
as for the car itself, always run a fully open diff on RWD - otherwise you will be doing donuts.
The M06 shock lengths are different front to rear, use the OEM setup lengths - the extra rear droop helps with weight transfer off-throttle on corner entry when using the harder slick tires on the front.
front toe setting for me is typically 1° out, linkage setup to minimize bump steer
I run the pro kits, so the rear hubs are the 1.5° toe in each side, lower pivot hole
we have no min ride height requirement in mini at the WCICS - I run about 3.5mm, and use adjustable top links to compensate for camber gain with reduced ride height. Camber is set to about 2° front and rear
You can play with battery location to adjust weight distribution - I run with it forward.
I use full size square packs in the M06 - seems to work better for me with the 225 mm WB
after re-reading your post, I see you are limited to M and S grip tires. Use the M grips with the extra hard inserts on the front and glue the sidewall/tread edge. Use the S-grips on the rear with hard inserts.
Thanks for sharing your experience with all M06 lovers. Really good description,.
Br, Matthias