2LikesTamiya TA05MS
09-15-2007, 06:56 AM
#617
what's good piston hole for a small technical track with a sweeping turn after the stretch(like the one in tamiya track aliso)? we're using cement race track.
09-15-2007, 06:17 PM
#618
Ran the car today and it is pretty damn good! I didn't have enough time to try everything I wanted but I hope to get it all done next week. I had a few steering issues at first, but nothing a little thread lock didn't solve.
Ran the kit suspension settings and it was good off the bat. I changed to the 1st ackerman position, and ran .5 degrees of toe in front and 1.5 degrees of camber all around. I forgot my sway bars and was stuck with the red in the rear.
Chris, when you are refering to the holes on the front and rear bulkhead by number, can you tell me what number corrisponds to which hole?
Next week I am going to make the setup more like my TA05 and see how that works. Dave was telling me what he found is that the setup he ran in his TA05 at TCS was not much different than his MSX. Looks like there are plenty of combinations to try!!!!
Also....ran the Lexus SC430 shell with the big lexan wing and ran well. Might try the smaller one but I don't think it will be enough downforce.
My only issue setup wise is I need more brakes and it seems like the car rolls a lot in transitions.
Ran the kit suspension settings and it was good off the bat. I changed to the 1st ackerman position, and ran .5 degrees of toe in front and 1.5 degrees of camber all around. I forgot my sway bars and was stuck with the red in the rear.
Chris, when you are refering to the holes on the front and rear bulkhead by number, can you tell me what number corrisponds to which hole?
Next week I am going to make the setup more like my TA05 and see how that works. Dave was telling me what he found is that the setup he ran in his TA05 at TCS was not much different than his MSX. Looks like there are plenty of combinations to try!!!!
Also....ran the Lexus SC430 shell with the big lexan wing and ran well. Might try the smaller one but I don't think it will be enough downforce.
My only issue setup wise is I need more brakes and it seems like the car rolls a lot in transitions.
09-17-2007, 05:35 AM
#619
For me, I don't feel any or see any difference when using different kind of piston hole, they really don't do much for me, they just seem the same... This is only based in My Personal Opinion...
09-17-2007, 09:22 AM
#620
Ran the car today and it is pretty damn good! I didn't have enough time to try everything I wanted but I hope to get it all done next week. I had a few steering issues at first, but nothing a little thread lock didn't solve.
Ran the kit suspension settings and it was good off the bat. I changed to the 1st ackerman position, and ran .5 degrees of toe in front and 1.5 degrees of camber all around. I forgot my sway bars and was stuck with the red in the rear.
Chris, when you are refering to the holes on the front and rear bulkhead by number, can you tell me what number corrisponds to which hole?
Next week I am going to make the setup more like my TA05 and see how that works. Dave was telling me what he found is that the setup he ran in his TA05 at TCS was not much different than his MSX. Looks like there are plenty of combinations to try!!!!
Also....ran the Lexus SC430 shell with the big lexan wing and ran well. Might try the smaller one but I don't think it will be enough downforce.
My only issue setup wise is I need more brakes and it seems like the car rolls a lot in transitions.
Ran the kit suspension settings and it was good off the bat. I changed to the 1st ackerman position, and ran .5 degrees of toe in front and 1.5 degrees of camber all around. I forgot my sway bars and was stuck with the red in the rear.
Chris, when you are refering to the holes on the front and rear bulkhead by number, can you tell me what number corrisponds to which hole?
Next week I am going to make the setup more like my TA05 and see how that works. Dave was telling me what he found is that the setup he ran in his TA05 at TCS was not much different than his MSX. Looks like there are plenty of combinations to try!!!!
Also....ran the Lexus SC430 shell with the big lexan wing and ran well. Might try the smaller one but I don't think it will be enough downforce.
My only issue setup wise is I need more brakes and it seems like the car rolls a lot in transitions.
for the front.. im using the longest hole possible. for the rear, its the one in the middle. i dont recall how the numbers corresponds. go back a few pages, someone posted the blank 05MS set up sheet.
You missed a good day of testing at BCR. Jose, me and oliver all had our 05MS out. And Dave was there too. Gave me a few pointers after he drove my car. I think im going back to my old set up though. i was more comfortable with that.
- Chris
09-17-2007, 06:23 PM
#621
Which old setup is that? I only have a few runs on the car so I am still getting a good base to go off of. The more changes I make, the more the car looks like my TA05 setup from Nats and Reg race. Have you seen that same thing?
I am still trying to figure out what brushless system to go with. Its either 13.5 or 10.5.
The biggest problem I am having with the car is it seems like the car transitions a little slow and rolls too much. I am not sure if changing the pistons will help, but I was stuck with a red sway in the rear Saturday which I know messed it up a bit.
This Sat at Tamiya I am going to bring all my sway bars, and my shocks from TCS to try out.
I am still trying to figure out what brushless system to go with. Its either 13.5 or 10.5.
The biggest problem I am having with the car is it seems like the car transitions a little slow and rolls too much. I am not sure if changing the pistons will help, but I was stuck with a red sway in the rear Saturday which I know messed it up a bit.
This Sat at Tamiya I am going to bring all my sway bars, and my shocks from TCS to try out.
09-18-2007, 09:39 PM
#623
guys, post your experiences with you 05ms. How's the ran?
I'm still curious with the 16balls.. I guess I should try it..
hmmmm, My 05ms is still at rest with broken upright
What will be the effect if I will put the evo5 arms into 05ms?
I think its much shorter than 05ms.
09-19-2007, 01:30 AM
#624
Yeah, was wondering where this thread was. You guys just gone quiet suddenly.
Coincidentally, it was quiet the moment the TRF416 thread came up. Hmmm… scary.
Well, as for my experience of the awesome TA05MS. Here goes.
I have been driving a TA05 on 23T, and the car is fantastic.
I love the TA05 so much that I immediately bought the 05MS the moment it was released.
Just so that I have an even comparison, I used the same ESC and motor on the 05MS. The difference was felt immediately. The car stick to the track (asphalt) like a pin, round corners. I am able to carry more speed approaching corners. Exiting corner I am able to punch earlier as well. The car is a great joy to drive, especially through S bends.
Sadly I do not have a transponder and a lap counter to compare the time difference. My guess, a good 0.5s a lap. And I am only using the setup from manual.
However, this may be a disadvantage comparison as the original TA05 is a carbon bathtub chassis while the 05MS is graphite. I have not driven the 415 before, it may or may not handle as well.
Right now, I whacked in a LRP 4.5 + Novak GTB ESC, and car handles equally well.
Only the driver is not able to max the car to its ultimate pace.
It is a real pity that this car was not classified in the TRF series which it has every right to be.
Should be called TA05 TRF Ed instead.
Coincidentally, it was quiet the moment the TRF416 thread came up. Hmmm… scary.
Well, as for my experience of the awesome TA05MS. Here goes.
I have been driving a TA05 on 23T, and the car is fantastic.
I love the TA05 so much that I immediately bought the 05MS the moment it was released.
Just so that I have an even comparison, I used the same ESC and motor on the 05MS. The difference was felt immediately. The car stick to the track (asphalt) like a pin, round corners. I am able to carry more speed approaching corners. Exiting corner I am able to punch earlier as well. The car is a great joy to drive, especially through S bends.
Sadly I do not have a transponder and a lap counter to compare the time difference. My guess, a good 0.5s a lap. And I am only using the setup from manual.
However, this may be a disadvantage comparison as the original TA05 is a carbon bathtub chassis while the 05MS is graphite. I have not driven the 415 before, it may or may not handle as well.
Right now, I whacked in a LRP 4.5 + Novak GTB ESC, and car handles equally well.
Only the driver is not able to max the car to its ultimate pace.
It is a real pity that this car was not classified in the TRF series which it has every right to be.
Should be called TA05 TRF Ed instead.
09-19-2007, 05:52 AM
#625
I agree. Compared to the original TA05, the MS model has much sharper cornering and more corner exit rear wheel traction. Not to mention, it also has a smoother drivetrain. To contrast to the MSXX, I cannot do either. In theory though, we can at least discuss a few things. I haven't really had time to run my car as of the last two weeks, but to compensate, even during some busy days, I have been thinking about what I have observed since I began running the 05MS along with what I read in this thread.
Basic Layout
Because the TA05MS has a motor mounted closer to the middle of the car, it has a closer to 50/50 weight distribution and a longer rear belt paired with a shorter front belt than the MSXX. However, due to the motor mount being pushed forward on the TA05MS, it gets in the way of allowing the battery to be mounted 2-3 mm more centrally (between left and right sides; this was reported early on in this thread). The TA05 (original) has isometric front and rear belts and a motor mounted further forward (closer to the center) than the TA05MS, but the motor mount is less efficient with space and pushes the battery much further away from the side-to-side center. This causes the car to shift excess weight to the front outside wheel when cornering.
Effects of F/R Weight Distribution
There are always exceptions of course, so assuming that all else is held equal, the more weight that is mounted forward on the car, the sharper the overall turning radius is, but the slower the initial turn in is. This is not so evident when contrasting the 05 to the 05MS because of the big difference in left-to-right balance. Also, the heavier the rear-weight-load, the greater the traction under acceleration. I first noticed the differences in weight distributions from racing against a Toyota MR2 years ago in my Nissan 180SX. Those racing experiences caused me to like the idea of forward mounted motors because that's what I was familiar with. Thus, when the TA05 came out I jumped at it.
The MR2 and 180SX were very close in weight and power (both used 2 liter turbocharged engines); the tires were quite near equal. In tight turns, the MR2 had quick reactions, so I had to brake hard and deep into a corner with my FR car to shift a lot of weight forward. This way, I could turn more sharply and make up for the slower reaction of my 180SX. Usually you can't brake as late and hard with a MR car because it is very sensitive; the huge weight transition from rear to front can cause the car to spin out fairly easily. However, the biggest advantage the MR platform had was on rear-wheel-traction. It could launch off the line with minimum wheel spin and out accelerated my car on turn exit in rainy conditions racing uphill.
When extending this to rc cars, there are differences such as the use of belts in rc drivetrains, overall weights, locked front wheels, and tires, so the effects of the weight layout may be built upon or negated, but I think the general idea holds true. For instance, the belts on an electric rc flex during operation and are an integral part of the braking system; the degree to which they flex influences acceleration and deceleration characteristics. Therefore, this too, must be considered when comparing rc touring car weight distributions and performance because the amount of flex in the belts is directly related to the weight distribution. I've also hypothesized about the belt length differences, but I've got to sleep now
.
Basic Layout
Because the TA05MS has a motor mounted closer to the middle of the car, it has a closer to 50/50 weight distribution and a longer rear belt paired with a shorter front belt than the MSXX. However, due to the motor mount being pushed forward on the TA05MS, it gets in the way of allowing the battery to be mounted 2-3 mm more centrally (between left and right sides; this was reported early on in this thread). The TA05 (original) has isometric front and rear belts and a motor mounted further forward (closer to the center) than the TA05MS, but the motor mount is less efficient with space and pushes the battery much further away from the side-to-side center. This causes the car to shift excess weight to the front outside wheel when cornering.
Effects of F/R Weight Distribution
There are always exceptions of course, so assuming that all else is held equal, the more weight that is mounted forward on the car, the sharper the overall turning radius is, but the slower the initial turn in is. This is not so evident when contrasting the 05 to the 05MS because of the big difference in left-to-right balance. Also, the heavier the rear-weight-load, the greater the traction under acceleration. I first noticed the differences in weight distributions from racing against a Toyota MR2 years ago in my Nissan 180SX. Those racing experiences caused me to like the idea of forward mounted motors because that's what I was familiar with. Thus, when the TA05 came out I jumped at it.
The MR2 and 180SX were very close in weight and power (both used 2 liter turbocharged engines); the tires were quite near equal. In tight turns, the MR2 had quick reactions, so I had to brake hard and deep into a corner with my FR car to shift a lot of weight forward. This way, I could turn more sharply and make up for the slower reaction of my 180SX. Usually you can't brake as late and hard with a MR car because it is very sensitive; the huge weight transition from rear to front can cause the car to spin out fairly easily. However, the biggest advantage the MR platform had was on rear-wheel-traction. It could launch off the line with minimum wheel spin and out accelerated my car on turn exit in rainy conditions racing uphill.
When extending this to rc cars, there are differences such as the use of belts in rc drivetrains, overall weights, locked front wheels, and tires, so the effects of the weight layout may be built upon or negated, but I think the general idea holds true. For instance, the belts on an electric rc flex during operation and are an integral part of the braking system; the degree to which they flex influences acceleration and deceleration characteristics. Therefore, this too, must be considered when comparing rc touring car weight distributions and performance because the amount of flex in the belts is directly related to the weight distribution. I've also hypothesized about the belt length differences, but I've got to sleep now
.
09-19-2007, 08:49 AM
#626
Which old setup is that? I only have a few runs on the car so I am still getting a good base to go off of. The more changes I make, the more the car looks like my TA05 setup from Nats and Reg race. Have you seen that same thing?
I am still trying to figure out what brushless system to go with. Its either 13.5 or 10.5.
The biggest problem I am having with the car is it seems like the car transitions a little slow and rolls too much. I am not sure if changing the pistons will help, but I was stuck with a red sway in the rear Saturday which I know messed it up a bit.
This Sat at Tamiya I am going to bring all my sway bars, and my shocks from TCS to try out.
I am still trying to figure out what brushless system to go with. Its either 13.5 or 10.5.
The biggest problem I am having with the car is it seems like the car transitions a little slow and rolls too much. I am not sure if changing the pistons will help, but I was stuck with a red sway in the rear Saturday which I know messed it up a bit.
This Sat at Tamiya I am going to bring all my sway bars, and my shocks from TCS to try out.
my set up on my 05MS is pretty different from my 05R because we use Tamiya B3s. 
My 05MS set up is definitely more aggressive though. But then again, i'm running a faster motor with it. (10.5 and 13.5).i think ill try to head out to tamiya this sat to run. i just hope it isnt a whacky layout. if you want to go brushless... run 13.5. Its a popular class at BCR and parking lot races. 19T isnt getting much attention and wont get much more until reedy starts to come up again.
for the rest of 05MS visitors
car has been running great. still experimenting with set ups to just learn. but for this weekend. ill be going back to my old set up to try out at the tamiya track.anyone try evoV arms yet?
or am i gonna be the first? 
09-19-2007, 05:41 PM
#628
09-19-2007, 11:07 PM
#629
Just want to add and share again my experience with my 05ms last last and last week... During the Pre departure Race for the TAC participants of the Philippines.
I used the box/manual setup and guess what, it was a nice setup to begin with... Every corners I went in was flawless, except for the very tight corners, the stabilizers are just not what I needed for it, but I did something just to make in the tight corners flawless... And yet I did, although I did that before the last round of the race... And it was a nice ran for me if you compare my overall runs... And also because I didn't have the time to play with my 05ms and set it up right for the track layout... But atleast I got in third... And that was the first time I ran in the 23t class and the 05ms itself... So meaning, in short, the 05ms can be very competitive when you just have the right items and tools and electronics...
Oh yeah, btw, when that time, the leading person who was using a 05R only used one of our fellow racer's 05ms (which he lend it to try it out) was very fast and left mostly and lapped all of us... Not like when he was using the 05R... So it is really very competitive kit...
Hope I make my sharing clear... Hehehe...
I used the box/manual setup and guess what, it was a nice setup to begin with... Every corners I went in was flawless, except for the very tight corners, the stabilizers are just not what I needed for it, but I did something just to make in the tight corners flawless... And yet I did, although I did that before the last round of the race... And it was a nice ran for me if you compare my overall runs... And also because I didn't have the time to play with my 05ms and set it up right for the track layout... But atleast I got in third... And that was the first time I ran in the 23t class and the 05ms itself... So meaning, in short, the 05ms can be very competitive when you just have the right items and tools and electronics...
Oh yeah, btw, when that time, the leading person who was using a 05R only used one of our fellow racer's 05ms (which he lend it to try it out) was very fast and left mostly and lapped all of us... Not like when he was using the 05R... So it is really very competitive kit...
Hope I make my sharing clear... Hehehe...
09-20-2007, 12:07 AM
#630
Just want to add and share again my experience with my 05ms last last and last week... During the Pre departure Race for the TAC participants of the Philippines.
I used the box/manual setup and guess what, it was a nice setup to begin with... Every corners I went in was flawless, except for the very tight corners, the stabilizers are just not what I needed for it, but I did something just to make in the tight corners flawless... And yet I did, although I did that before the last round of the race... And it was a nice ran for me if you compare my overall runs... And also because I didn't have the time to play with my 05ms and set it up right for the track layout... But atleast I got in third... And that was the first time I ran in the 23t class and the 05ms itself... So meaning, in short, the 05ms can be very competitive when you just have the right items and tools and electronics...
Oh yeah, btw, when that time, the leading person who was using a 05R only used one of our fellow racer's 05ms (which he lend it to try it out) was very fast and left mostly and lapped all of us... Not like when he was using the 05R... So it is really very competitive kit...
Hope I make my sharing clear... Hehehe...
I used the box/manual setup and guess what, it was a nice setup to begin with... Every corners I went in was flawless, except for the very tight corners, the stabilizers are just not what I needed for it, but I did something just to make in the tight corners flawless... And yet I did, although I did that before the last round of the race... And it was a nice ran for me if you compare my overall runs... And also because I didn't have the time to play with my 05ms and set it up right for the track layout... But atleast I got in third... And that was the first time I ran in the 23t class and the 05ms itself... So meaning, in short, the 05ms can be very competitive when you just have the right items and tools and electronics...
Oh yeah, btw, when that time, the leading person who was using a 05R only used one of our fellow racer's 05ms (which he lend it to try it out) was very fast and left mostly and lapped all of us... Not like when he was using the 05R... So it is really very competitive kit...
Hope I make my sharing clear... Hehehe...
nice to hear that 05ms is very good.. what piston hole do you used?
I haven't tried my 05ms in asphalt.. we will be there at Futaba Cup.