2910Likes1/10 R/C F1's...Pics, Discussions, Whatever...
10-20-2013, 08:30 PM
#9482
Does anyone have a good link to a guide or howto on tuning F1/pan cars? Specifically, I'm trying to understand the impact of changing the following:
* Side spring rates
* Side damper rod grease weight
* Side link position (inside, outside, on an angle)
* Top damper spring rate
* Top damper length, position and angle
I have some educated guesses on what each does, but I'd like to understand things a little deeper. I have no real issues with the SP1 kit setup, but it'd be nice to know what I can tweak if needed.
Thank you in advance!
* Side spring rates
* Side damper rod grease weight
* Side link position (inside, outside, on an angle)
* Top damper spring rate
* Top damper length, position and angle
I have some educated guesses on what each does, but I'd like to understand things a little deeper. I have no real issues with the SP1 kit setup, but it'd be nice to know what I can tweak if needed.
Thank you in advance!
10-20-2013, 09:17 PM
#9483
Does anyone have a good link to a guide or howto on tuning F1/pan cars? Specifically, I'm trying to understand the impact of changing the following:
* Side spring rates
* Side damper rod grease weight
* Side link position (inside, outside, on an angle)
* Top damper spring rate
* Top damper length, position and angle
I have some educated guesses on what each does, but I'd like to understand things a little deeper. I have no real issues with the SP1 kit setup, but it'd be nice to know what I can tweak if needed.
Thank you in advance!
* Side spring rates
* Side damper rod grease weight
* Side link position (inside, outside, on an angle)
* Top damper spring rate
* Top damper length, position and angle
I have some educated guesses on what each does, but I'd like to understand things a little deeper. I have no real issues with the SP1 kit setup, but it'd be nice to know what I can tweak if needed.
Thank you in advance!
http://richardchang.com/hobby.php?topic=112setup
*side spring - for rubber tires, it needs to be stiff enough to stabilize the car. Softer makes the car rotate harder, but it may lift tires in high traction. To soft and the car will be very raective, and may be hard to drive straight. Too stiff and it can be skatey. The relationship between the side damper grease and the spring is strong, and you can use them in combination to get at what you want.
*side damper - for carpet it will be a lot stiffer than asphalt in general. For pardus tires, probably really stiff (100K -200K), pit tires less so (30-125K). I like to use the damper tube to control the roll of the car so I can use the side spring I want. Lately I have been going stiffer on the tube and a little lighter on the side spring. For carpet most of the traction rolls come off the rear end - the car's weight shifts across the football pivot and goes over that way. The front end usually does not cause the roll.
Going too stiff will make the car less reactive. The softer the grease the quicker the car can transition. Too soft and there is noting to stop the car from lifting tires. On asphalt, this is not a problem, so you are looking more at how quickly the car is reacting, and if the car is generating enough rear bite. Sometimes a stiffer tube can help stabilize the car on asphalt if the weight is moving too fast and breaking the rear end loose.
side link position - in or out I am not exactly sure how much difference it makes. My first thought is that wider might be helpful because the link articulation is not as extreme, and therefore less roll steer. I know that I thought the Exotek cars with the wider link in comparison to the Tamiya V2 cars were a little more consistent in the UF1 MIDWEST races I went to last year.
Angle is extremely important in my estimation. For rubber I feel like more angle is better. I think it locks the car down on acceleration, but also adds rotation in the corner. I have gone back to back with more and less angle and I think more just makes the car more stable, at which point you can just add more steering and go faster
. Center spring - Asphalt you really want to run as soft a spring as you can get to start. Sometimes you will run in to a really hooked up track where you can run a heavier spring, but that is not really that common. 95% of the time the softer spring is the best.
Carpet, not so much. I have been anywhere from the a red tamiya mini car spring (like 10lb) to a 20lb spring. Generally, a stiffer spring is more on power steering.
Shock position - the further forward the pivot point (chassis connection point), the more the car will steer. Moving it back helps to stabilize.
Shock angle - I feel like as the height of the rear of the shock increases, it hooks the rear end up. I think it has more to do with how much the shock moves in relation to the amount of pod movement as well as being similar to how the shock position works.
Shock length - this is basically your droop on the car. More droop = more off power steering. You need some amount of droop if the track is bumpy, but you don't need much at all if the track is smooth. 1 mm can be a lot. If the car is dumping on the nose and wants to spin, take droop out. If it doesn't get into the corner, add droop. Be aware too that the center ride height is important as well. A little sag at the center pivot can help the car hook up on launch.
10-20-2013, 11:23 PM
#9484
Tech Initiate
F104 Black Special - BAR Honda 007 Takuma Sato
Homemade BAR Honda livery
10-21-2013, 01:07 AM
#9485
First, this is a nice resource that is mostly transferrable to F1
http://richardchang.com/hobby.php?topic=112setup
*side spring - for rubber tires, it needs to be stiff enough to stabilize the car. Softer makes the car rotate harder, but it may lift tires in high traction. To soft and the car will be very raective, and may be hard to drive straight. Too stiff and it can be skatey. The relationship between the side damper grease and the spring is strong, and you can use them in combination to get at what you want.
*side damper - for carpet it will be a lot stiffer than asphalt in general. For pardus tires, probably really stiff (100K -200K), pit tires less so (30-125K). I like to use the damper tube to control the roll of the car so I can use the side spring I want. Lately I have been going stiffer on the tube and a little lighter on the side spring. For carpet most of the traction rolls come off the rear end - the car's weight shifts across the football pivot and goes over that way. The front end usually does not cause the roll.
Going too stiff will make the car less reactive. The softer the grease the quicker the car can transition. Too soft and there is noting to stop the car from lifting tires. On asphalt, this is not a problem, so you are looking more at how quickly the car is reacting, and if the car is generating enough rear bite. Sometimes a stiffer tube can help stabilize the car on asphalt if the weight is moving too fast and breaking the rear end loose.
side link position - in or out I am not exactly sure how much difference it makes. My first thought is that wider might be helpful because the link articulation is not as extreme, and therefore less roll steer. I know that I thought the Exotek cars with the wider link in comparison to the Tamiya V2 cars were a little more consistent in the UF1 MIDWEST races I went to last year.
Angle is extremely important in my estimation. For rubber I feel like more angle is better. I think it locks the car down on acceleration, but also adds rotation in the corner. I have gone back to back with more and less angle and I think more just makes the car more stable, at which point you can just add more steering and go faster.
Center spring - Asphalt you really want to run as soft a spring as you can get to start. Sometimes you will run in to a really hooked up track where you can run a heavier spring, but that is not really that common. 95% of the time the softer spring is the best.
Carpet, not so much. I have been anywhere from the a red tamiya mini car spring (like 10lb) to a 20lb spring. Generally, a stiffer spring is more on power steering.
Shock position - the further forward the pivot point (chassis connection point), the more the car will steer. Moving it back helps to stabilize.
Shock angle - I feel like as the height of the rear of the shock increases, it hooks the rear end up. I think it has more to do with how much the shock moves in relation to the amount of pod movement as well as being similar to how the shock position works.
Shock length - this is basically your droop on the car. More droop = more off power steering. You need some amount of droop if the track is bumpy, but you don't need much at all if the track is smooth. 1 mm can be a lot. If the car is dumping on the nose and wants to spin, take droop out. If it doesn't get into the corner, add droop. Be aware too that the center ride height is important as well. A little sag at the center pivot can help the car hook up on launch.
http://richardchang.com/hobby.php?topic=112setup
*side spring - for rubber tires, it needs to be stiff enough to stabilize the car. Softer makes the car rotate harder, but it may lift tires in high traction. To soft and the car will be very raective, and may be hard to drive straight. Too stiff and it can be skatey. The relationship between the side damper grease and the spring is strong, and you can use them in combination to get at what you want.
*side damper - for carpet it will be a lot stiffer than asphalt in general. For pardus tires, probably really stiff (100K -200K), pit tires less so (30-125K). I like to use the damper tube to control the roll of the car so I can use the side spring I want. Lately I have been going stiffer on the tube and a little lighter on the side spring. For carpet most of the traction rolls come off the rear end - the car's weight shifts across the football pivot and goes over that way. The front end usually does not cause the roll.
Going too stiff will make the car less reactive. The softer the grease the quicker the car can transition. Too soft and there is noting to stop the car from lifting tires. On asphalt, this is not a problem, so you are looking more at how quickly the car is reacting, and if the car is generating enough rear bite. Sometimes a stiffer tube can help stabilize the car on asphalt if the weight is moving too fast and breaking the rear end loose.
side link position - in or out I am not exactly sure how much difference it makes. My first thought is that wider might be helpful because the link articulation is not as extreme, and therefore less roll steer. I know that I thought the Exotek cars with the wider link in comparison to the Tamiya V2 cars were a little more consistent in the UF1 MIDWEST races I went to last year.
Angle is extremely important in my estimation. For rubber I feel like more angle is better. I think it locks the car down on acceleration, but also adds rotation in the corner. I have gone back to back with more and less angle and I think more just makes the car more stable, at which point you can just add more steering and go faster
. Center spring - Asphalt you really want to run as soft a spring as you can get to start. Sometimes you will run in to a really hooked up track where you can run a heavier spring, but that is not really that common. 95% of the time the softer spring is the best.
Carpet, not so much. I have been anywhere from the a red tamiya mini car spring (like 10lb) to a 20lb spring. Generally, a stiffer spring is more on power steering.
Shock position - the further forward the pivot point (chassis connection point), the more the car will steer. Moving it back helps to stabilize.
Shock angle - I feel like as the height of the rear of the shock increases, it hooks the rear end up. I think it has more to do with how much the shock moves in relation to the amount of pod movement as well as being similar to how the shock position works.
Shock length - this is basically your droop on the car. More droop = more off power steering. You need some amount of droop if the track is bumpy, but you don't need much at all if the track is smooth. 1 mm can be a lot. If the car is dumping on the nose and wants to spin, take droop out. If it doesn't get into the corner, add droop. Be aware too that the center ride height is important as well. A little sag at the center pivot can help the car hook up on launch.
10-21-2013, 02:13 AM
#9486
side link position - in or out I am not exactly sure how much difference it makes. My first thought is that wider might be helpful because the link articulation is not as extreme, and therefore less roll steer. I know that I thought the Exotek cars with the wider link in comparison to the Tamiya V2 cars were a little more consistent in the UF1 MIDWEST races I went to last year.
Angle is extremely important in my estimation. For rubber I feel like more angle is better. I think it locks the car down on acceleration, but also adds rotation in the corner. I have gone back to back with more and less angle and I think more just makes the car more stable, at which point you can just add more steering and go faster.
Angle is extremely important in my estimation. For rubber I feel like more angle is better. I think it locks the car down on acceleration, but also adds rotation in the corner. I have gone back to back with more and less angle and I think more just makes the car more stable, at which point you can just add more steering and go faster
.
10-21-2013, 09:49 AM
#9488
10-24-2013, 08:15 AM
#9489
I'm about to paint a couple new bodies and I have some questions about painting the wings. I've seen posts with guys using primer (Krylon), and people just spraying the wings with Fastcolor and then putting clear coat on them. Which method will hold up the best in a racing environment? What kind of clear coat are people using? I know they will get beaten up pretty bad, but I'd like to use whatever method won't chip off completely the first time I run the car. I've used vinyl before but I want to try paint on the liveries I'm doing this time.
Thanks!
Thanks!
10-24-2013, 11:11 AM
#9490
Thanks for the help with tire selection for use on an F109.
I mounted the Pits up on the Ride wheels (sold thru Thunder Power). tires are glued to track. But after a couple of practice sessions, and a few dings into the Clik-Trak etc, the inners of the front rims are badly cracked (i'm guessing when on impact they're forced into the steering arm/upright).
Any other wheel recommendations for the F109 ?
I mounted the Pits up on the Ride wheels (sold thru Thunder Power). tires are glued to track. But after a couple of practice sessions, and a few dings into the Clik-Trak etc, the inners of the front rims are badly cracked (i'm guessing when on impact they're forced into the steering arm/upright).
Any other wheel recommendations for the F109 ?
10-24-2013, 07:18 PM
#9494
Well theoretically speaking the mono ball/link rear suspension shouldn't work...but due to play in the pivots it does.
When the links move they move in an arc so the pivot balls on the rear pods also move in an arc and not straight up and down. Now if you only have 1 link attached and you pivot the pod the link will pull the pod toward that side of the chassis causing the axle to no longer be perpendicular to the center line of the car. This is rear steer...if you remember back to your childhood...back when we used to ride around on "Big Wheels"...there was another trike called the "Green Machine" which steered by pivoting the rear axle. The links on our RC cars do pretty much the same thing.
When the links move they move in an arc so the pivot balls on the rear pods also move in an arc and not straight up and down. Now if you only have 1 link attached and you pivot the pod the link will pull the pod toward that side of the chassis causing the axle to no longer be perpendicular to the center line of the car. This is rear steer...if you remember back to your childhood...back when we used to ride around on "Big Wheels"...there was another trike called the "Green Machine" which steered by pivoting the rear axle. The links on our RC cars do pretty much the same thing.
10-27-2013, 07:27 AM
#9495
SWEEP F1 TIRES
Anyone have any advise on the Sweep F1 tires? Good, bad so so etc. I tried to use the search function but could not find any kind of review or input.